Before I begin with his writings, I would like to mention few points as an introduction
and a help for the reader to fully understand where both sides ( Muslims and the polytheist
trinitarian pagans) are coming from.
Few Points:
1- Below, you'll
learn about the different trinities that existed and still exist today. One of them
is the "Holy Family Trinity".
See how the Noble Quran was never in contradiction regarding it. The father,
mother and child (son) was and still is a practiced trinity.
The Noble Quran also condemns the "Father,
Son and Holy Spirit" one too.
The Priest's
"tallest (middle) finger represents the
father, the next tallest (index), the mother, the small thumb, the child."
As you'll clearly see below, the Noble Quran is clear about all types of worship of Jesus and/or
his mother Mary as being complete blasphemy! More
elaborations, proofs and references down in the article.
The Noble Quran never limited
trinity to only Jesus, Mary and GOD Almighty.
Rather, Allah Almighty denounced
any and ALL types of trinity and/or plurality worship, which even
includes the "Hindu trinity" and either Mary
or Jesus or both.
Satan was part of the trinity
(Ezekiel 28:13-19),
then got
subtracted
(-1):
Satan. GOD expresses how regretful He is that all of
the Glory that He has created for and given to Satan will no longer be given to him. It was now
given to a lesser
second-hand, Jesus, whom otherwise would've received none of it. Jesus was GOD's plan B not A.
perfect from the day you were created". Jesus was also created from the
Word of GOD. 2. Glorious. 3. "the chosen one". 4. The "Anointed". 5. ruler over earth. 6. Ruler over the "Holy Mount" of GOD.
Question to every polytheist
trinitarian pagan:
If Jesus replaced Satan, then:
1- How can Jesus be our Creator?
2- How can Satan be part of a
trinity?
3- How can Jesus be given the glory
that was created for and given to satan, not Jesus, and Jesus still be
considered our Creator?
4- How come
Satan was the primary and Jesus was
secondary?
Of course, there is no Trinity, and
Satan was not subtracted from any
Trinity. The above exposes the lie of
trinity; a word that does not even exist in any of the Jewish and Christian
scriptures (Bibles and outside Bibles). Also, since we have
Even Michael, the chief angel,
did not dare to
insult the devil.
Using the polytheist trinitarian pagans' illogic, satan was
indeed a Mighty Member of the Barfinity, but then got subtracted. And
since satan was subtracted, then Jesus could've also gotten himself subtracted
when satan made Jesus covet the sins of the world
for 40 days and 40 nights. Do you see now how blasphemous and stupid
Christianity is?
Matthew 7:22-23: GOD sent Jesus to be Christianity's lying spirit
Isaiah 56:5: Muslim is the future believers' name. Jesus called every believer a Muslim in Luke 6:40.
Four false promises made by Jesus
regarding the Holy Spirit:
Jesus' confusing hyperboles and riddles, incoherent and oxymoronic language that falsely turned sinful into lawful and lawful into sinful (ex: pork became lawful, polygamy became sinful and many other
examples of blasphemies and quackery) definitely make him a 100% GOd-sent
lying spirit in Matthew 7:22-23.
1- Your
sperma (Greek for sperm) will not cause you to sin fornication or adultery or masturbation if you
have enough Holy Spirit in you. So why then did you amputate your own
testicles and head of penis Jesus? Why did you
castrate and emasculate
yourself? You had no need for this. Who on this planet could've had
more Holy Spirit in him than you? Or were you also drunk when you uttered
this lie?
The NT calls Jesus a fat drunk"gluttonous, and a winebibber" (Matthew 11:19, Luke 7:34).
Jesus was addicted to alcohol. Jesus commanded to
amputate your sinful body parts (cut off hand, penis, pluck eyes, etc...). Paul said amputated flesh gets
sent to satan. Were you someone's boyfriend Jesus? Or were you someone's girlfriend? Why did you amputate your Holy Divine Genitals (??) and send them to satan?
And why did you then keep your eyes??
Also Jesus, why are your churches, even
from the times of Paul, were and are still are notorious in sexual assaults and
rapes?
Paul also
commanded women to not
exposesex
predators
in
1 Corinthians 14:34-35, 1 Timothy 2:11–13, 1 Thessalonians 4:3-4, 1
Corinthians 2:15 and other
passages.
Even the 12th disciple was chosen by rolling
the dice (casting lots), - a game of chance, - and not by the Holy
Spirit.Their
books didn't even exist for the first 200 to 300 years, says most
Bibles theologians.
They are very highly corrupted. Also, Trinity is a lie from Hell. Why
was GOD Almighty charitable (χάριτι)
and forgiving to Jesus in Luke
2:52?
Matthew 7:22-23: GOD
sent Jesus to
be Christianity's lying
spirit
Isaiah 56:5: Muslim is the future believers' name. Jesus called every believer a Muslim in Luke 6:40.
2- If a snake bites you and runs
its poison through your blood, it will not hurt you (Mark 16:17-18). Jesus even promised in the plural that you will be picking up deadly snakes and they will inject their poisons into you and you shall not be harmed!. This false prophesy is one of the NT's biggest lies, because it never happened. Not only that, but all Christians who genuinely attempted it in the past were killed by the snakes' poisons.
Furthermore, the NT's writers lied when they said Paul was bit by a poisonous snake and was not hurt when he was in Malta (Acts 28:7–10). There are many problems with this:
1- Paul is a single person. Jesus' bold promise was in the plural. "The believers shall pick up poisonous snakes, and if anyone gets bit by a poisonous snake and have the poison run through their blood, the poison shall not harm any believer!". Well, historically all who genuinely picked up died from poison.
2- It's been proven that many non-venomous snakes existed in Malta. Some even look like Vipers. So there is not proof that Paul's snake was a poisonous one:
"Four species of snakes are present (in the wild) in the Maltese Islands of which three are relatively recent additions. The only indigenous snake is the Western Whip Snake Coluber viridiflavus which is a non-poisonous species. The other three, namely Algerian Whipsnake Coluber algirus, Leopard Snake Elaphe situla and Cat Snake Telescopus fallax have been introduced by man. Of these only the latter has some form of poison. Although snakes appear in the archaeological context (eg. the stone slab in Mus of Archaeology of Gozo - from ggantija, which has a snake on its side) this does not imply that they were poisonous. On the other hand, poisonous species such as Natrix natrix which occurs in nearby Sicily may have been eradicated by man through time." (Source)
3- Jesus' promise dismally fails, and it is one of the most embarrassing lies, and most dangerous to its followers, in the New Testament, which again and again proves that Jesus was indeed a GOD-sent
lying spirit as GOD Almighty deceived false people in the Old Testament.
Four times
Jesus
was
ignorant
about Torah:
1-
No one ever ascended to Heaven before (John
3:13-14).
Yet, both Elijah and Enoch did in their physical bodies (2
Kings 2:11, Genesis 5:24).
Where did Enoch and Elijah go to?
John 3:13-14 13
No one has
ascended to heaven except He who descended from heaven, even the Son of
Man who is in heaven.
14 Just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son
of Man be lifted up,
2 Kings 2:11
11 As they continued walking and talking, a chariot of fire and horses of fire
separated the two of them, and Elijah
went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
Genesis 5:24
24 Enoch walked with God,
and then he was no more because
God took him.
Again,
where did Enoch and Elijah go to?
Jesus' statement is simply
a lie. He didn't know that Elijah, Enoch and others (ex: Uzair or Ezra) were taken up to
Heaven by GOD Almighty. Was he also here a
fat drunk as the NT says he was? Jesus here added Elijah and Enoch to the 39+ list of barfinity (trinity), because we now have Elijah, Enoch and Jesus as their own trinity.
Moses was scared to even pass the Judgment:
2-
It was always allowed for the Jews to do work on the Sabbath. Yet, a good
man was commanded by GOD Almighty to be
put to death
because he collected wood on the Sabbath. Moses, Aaron and the Priests
were
scared to pass unjust judgment
on the man. Moses had to go up to Yahweh Almighty Himself to ask him
specifically about the man. Yahweh ordered Moses to put him to death.
3-
Jesus didn't know that
Jewish landlords who own farms
were
not allowed
to reap 100% of their harvest. They had to leave the corners for the
random passing by needy people from both foreigners and locals, irrespective of
what day it is in the week, to eat from. Sabbath was included. Yet,
Jesus conceded that his disciples were in violation of the Sabbath because they
were eating from the farm on the Sabbath. Was he also here a fat drunk as the NT says he was, and as a result forgot this Torah Law?
4-
The Messiah will be buried deep in the heart of the earth for three days and
three nights. Yet, this doesn't exist anywhere in the Jewish Torah, and
ironically, it never happened to Jesus
either. The Romans had to pull the plug on his crucifixion after only 3
hours on the cross because of the Jewish Passover festival, which brought 1/2
million Jewish pilgrims to Jerusalem. The Romans had to bring him down
quickly to prevent untellable chaos. The soldiers were even denied to eat
their meals
due to lack of time.
Jesus laid on the floor in a cave-like structure (a tomb), received medical
treatment from the women, and then got up and left on the third day. He
never even made it to the third night. He also was never buried in any
coffin or underground. He laid on the floor. And he never died to even
resurrect from death.
The Romans had to
fake his crucifixion due
to Passover issues:
Jesus' confusing hyperboles and riddles, incoherent and oxymoronic language that falsely turned sinful into lawful and lawful into sinful (ex: pork became lawful, polygamy became sinful and many other
examples of blasphemies and quackery) definitely make him a 100% GOd-sent
lying spirit in Matthew 7:22-23.
3- You can
lift mountains and throw them in the sea with only
one command only if you had the Holy Spirit in you. Not even Jesus,
with all of his glory and sperms, was able to do this miracle.
4- Jesus
promised the disciples that after he departs it will not be them
speaking. It will be the Holy Spirit will be speaking through their
mouths. Yet, after he departed, they split into Peter and Paul opposing
teams, and they started hurling insults and accusations towards each others'
teachings, and calling each others: Anathema (cursed by GOD in Greek), follower
of Satan, your Gospel is of the devil, you are a false apostle, you are dogs,
and several other serious accusations and insults.
Where was the promised
Holy Spirit in all of this, and all of the above??
Where is Jesus' promise??
- He promised that the Holy Spirit will take over the disciples' mouths, guide them in all ways, and that it will be the Holy Spirit speaking, not them. - They ended up splitting into Paul vs. Peter two opposing groups, and were at odds with each other on several theological issues. -
1 Corinthians 7:40 Paul wasn't sure if he had the Holy Spirit in him or not. He said "I think I have the Holy Spirit". - Their differences remain unsettled till this day in the NT. They were never resolved.
- They were barking at each other like rabid dogs calling each other cursed, false, liar, satanic, your gospel is from satan!
[1] Their books didn't even exist for the first 200 to 300 years, says
most Bibles theologians. They are very highly corrupted. Also, Trinity is a lie from Hell. Why was GOD Almighty charitable (χάριτι) and forgiving to Jesus in
Luke 2:52:?
Where was the promised Holy Spirit in their conflicting scriptures?
Remember:
If Paul is false, then Jesus is insufficient:
Sam Shamoun thoroughly demolishes trinity and the early bibles' writings. See also: 24 other
thrones besides Jesus'.
Virgin Mary is being
Jesus further says: The only unforgivable sin is
blaspheming the Holy Spirit (Luke 12:10). But your entire package that is called the NT
and church is the greatest insult and blasphemy against GOD Almighty's
Holy Spirit. It is like a prostitute
preaching, and while continuing to prostitute, that the one unforgivable sin is
fornication. How many times did you fornicate and continue to fornicate?
How many times did you lie on the Holy Spirit and continued to lie on the Holy
Spirit of GOD Almighty? Were you also a fat drunk
in this one?
John the Baptist, Jesus' cousin, was greater than Jesus. The NT calls Jesus a fat drunk"gluttonous, and a winebibber" (Matthew 11:19, Luke 7:34). Jesus was addicted to alcohol:
Matthew 11:19 (NIV) 19 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’ But wisdom is proved right by her deeds.”
Luke 7:34 (NIV) 34 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’
"But wisdom is proved right by her deeds"? What but wisdom is there when people see you drunk and stuffing your face and mouth with food like your life depended on it? And what Wisdom is there in drinking and being drunk when Yahweh Almighty Himself, your GOD, despises it
? Hypocrisy and being false, and just wanting to be opposite, are now Wisdom? What
horrible health advice and butt-wisdom are you giving when you allow enjoying
alcohol consumption? People witnessed you regularly getting addicted and drunk. Did not your
toilet spirit teach you that alcohol seriously damages the human body?
Of course it never did! (See
Holy Spirit of Islam, and alcohol is
forbidden in Islam)
High Concentrations and Intoxication:
Was Jesus also drunk when he decided to
castrate and emasculate himself? Yes, according to early Christians' writings, Jesus amputated his testicles and the head of his penis. Was the barfing christ drunk?? It is nearly impossible for addicts to remain sober, and to genuinely think and speak responsibly. All of that holy sh*t and sacred piss revealed from him had high concentrations of alcohol in them. This explains Jesus' ample
confusing and oxymoronic riddles in the NT that turned sinful into lawful and lawful into sinful (ex: pork became lawful; polygamy became sinful and many other examples). He was not clear-headed (sober). He was high on ample pooping and peeing himself alcoholic wisdom. Jesus was also
verbally abusive. Was he walking down the streets at 2:00 am shouting and screaming insults at everyone while being drunk? And again, was he pooping and peeing himself with some alcohol-heavy holy sh*t and sacred piss?
People also called him out on his lack of hygiene problems. Jesus had disregard for personal hygiene (Matthew 15:1-2, Mark 7:1-5). He emphasized that the outside filth is totally irrelevant. He probably showered a lot less, had a stench for body odor, and was lice infested in his beard and hair, and throughout his clothes and body. See what Islam says about personal hygiene. Being physically smelly and filthy is satanic according to the Glorious Quran. Jesus (the false Jesus of the NT, not the true Isa of Islam) and GOD are Heaven and Hell apart in this. The NT also says GOD considers John the Baptist great because he never drank alcohol.
Yahweh despised Jesus' wisdom:
Jesus: It is wisdom to drink, get drunk and barf for the sake of appeasing hypocrites and infidels. I am powerless and desperate and want to commit this sin. After all, satan also made me covet the sins of the world for 40 days and 40 nights. I was between him and GOD during this period. That was another wisdom.
Yahweh: You would not be a great person, nor pleasing to GOD if you drink alcohol. You drink alcohol you would not be pleasing to GOD, nor would you be considered a great person by GOD.
GOD despised Jesus' hypocritical wisdom that appeased evil and displeased GOD (Luke 1:15).
for he (John the Baptist) will be great in the sight of the Lord. He is never to take wine or other fermented drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even before he is born.
So according to the New Testament itself, we have:
Is John the Baptist another member of the
barfinity?
As I mentioned below, Noble Verse 5:73 also condemns the "Hindu trinity":
Shamoun's combination of the Noble Verses above regarding the worship of Mary (in one form of trinity), and the worship of Jesus (in another form of trinity) is clearly incorrect, because Noble
verse 5:73 says:
"They do blaspheme who say: God is a third of three: for
there is no god except One God........."
No Mary, no Jesus, no Holy Spirit, no Hindu trinity
(Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva), and no lies! All forms of trinity or any
plurality of GOD Almighty are false and lies! Mary, Jesus and the Holy Spirit
are nothing but Honored creations
from GOD Almighty with specific duties.
See below in the article for more elaborations and CLEAR-CUT proofs!
2- GOD Almighty
Created "tools" that He Uses. These tools are
generally simplified and called as "Angels", but there is more to them than just
that. The creation of our human-spirits through the Holy Spirit (as mentioned in the
bible and the Noble Quran as shown below) does indeed mean that the Holy Spirit have Great
Attributes and Power according to us humans, but it
doesn't automatically make it part of GOD Almighty. Our
human-spirits are nothing when compared to GOD Almighty. They're not even worth a
spit when compared to GOD Almighty. The trinitarians' blasphemous argument is easily
refuted, because just because the "tools" that GOD
Almighty Created do create us, it doesn't mean that they are GOD Almighty.
Here are some of the tools of GOD Almighty that bring us to existence:
(a)- The eggs and sperms of the mother and
father. The mother's egg and father's sperm "create" the human flesh.
It's not just the Holy Spirit that
"creates" humans.
(b)- The Holy Spirit blows into our
fetus-bodies our human-spirits (life):
"He Who has made everything which He has created most good: He
began the creation of man with (nothing more than) clay, And made his progeny
from a quintessence of the nature of a fluid despised: But He fashioned him in due
proportion, and breathed into him something of His spirit. And He gave you
(the faculties of) hearing and sight and feeling (and understanding): little thanks do ye
give! (The Noble Quran, 32:7-9)"
As we clearly see in these Noble Verses, Allah Almighty talked
about the beginning of the creation of Mankind (starting from Adam peace be upon him) and
repeating the cycle to all of us.
(c)- The material that makes up our
human-flesh all comes from our mother earth, through soil and water combined together
as the Noble Quran Claimed it and modern science today confirmed it.
Using Shamoun's absurd logic, this makes your parents, the Holy Spirit and our mother
earth all as part of GOD Almighty, since ALL OF THEM created you.
Basically in a nutshell,
to the polytheist trinitarian pagans, anything that is unseen to our human-eye and has Great Power, must be without doubt GOD Almighty Himself!
Very similar to
hinduism.
3- The Holy Spirit
is a tool used by GOD Almighty. It is a Creation by GOD Almighty. Our spirits
like I said above are nothing when compared to GOD Almighty, and hence, the Holy Spirit
creating them doesn't mean much.
Now to Shamoun's article....
He wrote:
The Holy Spirit in Christianity and Islam:
Examining the Evidence which proves that the Spirit is God
These papers were written to show from both the Holy Bible and the Quran that the
Spirit is not a creation. The evidence we presented demonstrated that the Spirit is God
and yet distinct from God, proving that according to both books God is a multipersonal
Being.
Even if Osama didn’t intend for his paper to be a response to ours, we still
decided to tackle his article to see if he provided any substantial refutation to the data
which we have culled to support our premise that, according to the Holy Bible and the
Quran, both Yahweh and Allah are multipersonal Beings.
My response:
My article was a general response to several blasphemous articles that I read regarding
the Holy Spirit. It's main focus is to debunk the new lie that is circulating these
days about Islam believing in trinity.
He wrote:
All Quranic citations are taken from A.J. Arberry's translation, unless noted
otherwise.
Osama writes:
The Universe or the World that is outside our little world on earth has many unknown
mysteries in it. Even in our world we have a whole life that can not be seen by our
naked eyes, and this world functions probably as we do. The danger in interpreting
things, especially when it comes to GOD Almighty, is that because of our natural human
weakness and unlimited desire to explore and discover the "unknown," we might
fall into the sin and blasphemy of insulting GOD Almighty and associating partners
(creations of His) with Him.
"They ask thee concerning the Spirit (of inspiration). Say:
"The Spirit (cometh) by command of my Lord: of knowledge it is only a
little that is communicated to you, (O men!)"
(The
Noble Quran, 17:85)"
RESPONSE:
So far we have no disagreements with what Osama says. Yet, we will see how Osama tries
to interpret things according to his own "natural human weakness and unlimited
desire" to limit God to a single Person.
My response:
Actually you do have disagreements. This Noble Verse refutes your trinity lie,
because if the Holy Spirit was indeed Allah Almighty, then Allah Almighty would've Said so
in the Noble Verse. Instead, He clearly Said that it is under His Command, and we
have no knowledge about it, the Spirit, i.e., the material it is created from, all of its
Divine Roles, etc...
This is further proved in the following Noble Verses that I mentioned in my initial
article:
"The Day that the Spirit and the Angels
will stand forth in ranks, none shall speak except any who is permitted by
(God) Most Gracious, and He will say what is right. (The Noble Quran, 78:38)"
"A questioner asked about a Penalty to befall- The
Unbelievers, the which there is none to ward off,- (A Penalty) from God, Lord of the Ways
of Ascent. The Angels and the Spirit ascend unto Him in a Day the
measure whereof is (as) fifty thousand years: Therefore do thou hold Patience,- a Patience
of beautiful (contentment). (The Noble Quran, 70:1-5)"
"Therein come down the Angels and the Spirit by
God's permission, on every errand: (The
Noble Quran, 97:4)"
"Not one of the beings in the heavens and the
earth but must come to God) Most Gracious as a servant. He does take an
account of them (all), and hath numbered them (all) exactly. And everyone of them will
come to Him singly on the Day of Judgment. On those who believe and work deeds of
righteousness, will (God) Most Gracious bestow love. (The
Noble Quran, 19:93-96)"
As I mentioned in the article, these Noble Verse are the Ultimate knock out to the
polytheist trinitarian pagans who are trying, through their absurd writings, to prove that
the Holy Spirit in the Noble Quran is the other part of Allah Almighty; that he is at
least a dual GOD if not a triune one.
As the reader can see, the Holy Spirit does nothing except under the Divine Command of
GOD Almighty. It is as I mentioned above a "tool" that GOD Almighty
Created.
He wrote:
Because his finite and limited mind cannot comprehend how the infinite God can exist as
more than one Person and yet still be one, Osama will try to do all he can to refute the
evidence which goes against his erroneous views of God’s unity.
My response:
Actually, and as I explained above, it is your blasphemous and absurd faith that
invents lies against GOD Almighty. To you, anything that can not be seen by our
human-eye and has great power must be without doubt GOD Almighty Himself. Ridiculous
indeed.
He wrote:
GOD Almighty is neither a trinity, nor duality, nor plural in Islam:
"They do blaspheme who say: God is one of three in a
Trinity: for there is no god except One God (Luke 2:52: GOD forgave Jesus' sins and was "charitable" with him)
. If they desist not from their word
(of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them. (The Noble Quran, 5:73)"
RESPONSE:
Osama chooses a translation which deliberately distorts what the Arabic actually says.
The word Trinity doesn’t appear at all in the passage. The literal Arabic speaks of
those who say that Allah is the third of three. In point of fact, the Quran nowhere
attacks the historic Christian doctrine of the Trinity, but a gross aberration of it.
My response:
I am not trying to twist anything here. It is also you who is lying because
anyone who is familiar with my site knows well that I use for the most part the NIV Bible
for the biblical quotes, and the English translation of Abdullah Yusuf Ali for the Noble
Quran. You knew this very well and yet, you're trying to fabricate a new lie against
me and my integrity.
The Arabic Noble Verse Says "...thalithun
thalath.....", which means "a
third entity from three". So the English translation is
actually almost accurate, since the lie of trinity means exactly
that.
He wrote:
The Quran identifies the three, which Allah happens to be one of, as Allah, Jesus and
his mother Mary:
They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah
(himself) said: O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Lo! whoso
ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the
Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers. They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah
is THE THIRD OF THREE; when there is no God save the One God. If they desist not from
so saying a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve.
Will they not rather turn unto Allah and seek forgiveness of Him? For Allah is
Forgiving, Merciful. The Messiah, son of Mary, was no other than a messenger, messengers
(the like of whom) had passed away before him. And his mother was a saintly woman. And
THEY BOTH USED TO EAT (earthly) FOOD. See how We make the revelations clear for them,
and see how they are turned away! Surah 5:72-75 Pickthall
The passage speaks of Jesus and Mary as having to eat food, obviously to debunk what
the author of the Quran thought were Christian beliefs. In other words, the author is
assuming that Christians taught that there are three deities, two of whom were Jesus and
Mary. The same chapter supports this interpretation since a little later we read:
And when Allah will say: O Isa son of Marium! did you say to men, Take ME AND MY
MOTHER for TWO gods besides Allah he will say: Glory be to Thee, it did not befit me
that I should say what I had no right to (say); if I had said it, Thou wouldst indeed have
known it; Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I do not know what is in Thy mind, surely
Thou art the great Knower of the unseen things.
I did not say to them aught save what Thou didst enjoin me with: That serve Allah, my
Lord and your Lord, and I was a witness of them so long as I was among them, but when Thou
didst cause me to die, Thou wert the watcher over them, and Thou art witness of all
things. Surah 5:116-117 Shakir
Obviously, this is not what true, historic Christianity teaches. All Osama has to do is
present passages from the Quran where the correct Christian understanding of the Trinity
is undermined, i.e. that God is not the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit
simultaneously. We are not asking him to produce a single passage where this is stated,
but he can try to cull several passages and combine them together to show that the Quran
does attack the historic doctrine of the Holy Trinity. The problem for Osama is that, as
he himself realizes, the Quran presents Allah’s Spirit as God (Luke 2:52: GOD forgave Jesus' sins and was "charitable" with him). That is why he has
written this response, being his attempt of explaining away what even his own book
obviously teaches.
My response:
First of all, no where in the Noble Quran did Allah Almighty define the trinity lie as
the father, mother and son. Allah Almighty in the Noble Quran responded to the two
main trinity doctrines that existed: "Father Mother and Child", and
"Father, Son and Holy Spirit".
The Noble Quran condemned the christians who worshiped Jesus and Mary in any and all
forms of "trinities". The point is that any and all types
of worship of Jesus and/or his mother Mary is blasphemy! The
Noble Quran never limited the trinity lie to only father, mother and child.
Very Important:
In fact, the Arabic word
"thaluth" or
"thalooth" (trinity) doesn't
even exist in the Noble Quran.
Instead, Allah Almighty used "thalithun thalath", which means "a third
from three" or a "third entity from three"; denouncing all forms of trinity!
All trinities and the dividing of GOD Almighty into plurality are blasphemies.
That is why Allah Almighty Said:
"They do blaspheme who say: God is one of three in a
Trinity: for there is no god except One God. If they
desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the
blasphemers among them. (The Noble Quran, 5:73)"
Again, the Arabic Noble Verse Says "...thalithun
thalath.....", which means "a
third entity from three". It is not only limited to the
"holy family trinity" lie, but rather, it is covering any and all of the lies of
trinity.
Noble Verse 5:73
also condemns the "Hindu trinity":
Shamoun's combination of the Noble Verses above regarding the worship of Mary (in one form of trinity), and the worship of Jesus (in another form of trinity) is clearly incorrect, because Noble
verse 5:73 above says:
"They do blaspheme who say: God is a third of three: for
there is no god except One God........."
No Mary, no Jesus, no Holy Spirit, no Hindu trinity
(Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva), and no lies! All forms of trinity or any
plurality of GOD Almighty are false and lies! Mary, Jesus and the Holy Spirit
are nothing but Honored creations
from GOD Almighty with specific duties.
Let us now learn about the "Holy Family Trinity" lie:
1- Father, Mother and Child trinity. Also
called "Holy Family Trinity".
Some early trinity doctrines did believe that trinity was indeed the father, mother and
son. This belief, is still widely accepted among Roman Catholics but under a
different name today. Read the following:
The Father-Son-and-Holy-Ghost is not the only Holy Trinity, nor
even the oldest trinity. Historically, Father-Mother-Child was a much
more wide-spread trinity, one that many still see in Jesus-Mary-and-Joseph today. Even
older still is the trinity of the Triple Goddess: Maiden-Mother-and-Crone.
Father, Mother and Child (often a Savior-Son) is an
ancient trinity, naturally reflected in the world around us. Just as
Mary is strongly linked to Isis, so the Holy Family, Joseph, Mary and Jesus, is linked to
the trinity of Osiris, Isis and Horus. In Christianizing the pagan world, this family
trinity was familiar and, therefore, effective in encouraging conversion to a religion
that seemed so similar to native worship (F).
The hand gesture used in blessings-- middle finger, index finger, and thumb
extended-- is said to be a hold-over from the Holy Family
trinity. The tallest (middle) finger represents the father, the next
tallest (index), the mother, the small thumb, the child.
Today, the Holy Family persists in popular worship as a Trinity, despite it's marginal
orthodoxy, mainly because the family is a real-life model for everyday life, much more
real and familiar that an all-male trinity or an ephemeral Spirit.
References:
(A) Dues, Greg. Catholic Customs and Traditions: A Popular Guide. Mystic, CN:
Twenty-third Publications, 1992.
(B) Walker, Barbara G. The Woman's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets. Edison, NJ:
Castle Books, 1983/1996.
(C) Pagels, Elaine. The Gnostic Gospels. NY: Random, 1979.
(D) Gadon, Elinor (Ed). The Once and Future Goddess. SF: Harper, 1989.
(E) Armstrong, Karen. A History of God. NY: Knopf, 1993.
(F) Starhawk. The Spiral Dance. SF: Harper, 1979/89.
(G) Cunneen, Sally. In Search of Mary: The Woman and the Symbol. New York:
Ballantine, 1996.
(H) Koenig-Bricker, Woodeene. 365 Mary: A Daily Guide to Mary's Wisdom and Comfort.
San Francisco: Harper, 1997.
( * ) And numerous other sources
2- The worship of Mary by the Roman Catholics
today!
Like I mentioned, no where in the Noble Quran did Allah Almighty define the trinity lie
as father mother and son. Allah Almighty only Responded to the polytheist
trinitarian pagans who had different types of false beliefs. The worship of Mary
still goes today. She is a GODDESS to a great percentage of the entire christian
population world-wide, whether one likes it or not. So
the Noble Quran's response to the false pagan beliefs in christianity is perfectly valid
and contains no errors or contradictions in it what so ever.
Ironically, Shamoun wrote:
"Obviously, this is not what true, historic Christianity teaches."
My response:
Obviously, Sam Shamoun doesn't know much about the history of the polytheist
trinity paganism that he follows. I sincerely feel sorry for him.
He also wrote above:
"The problem for Osama is that, as he himself realizes, the Quran presents
Allah’s Spirit as God (Luke 2:52: GOD forgave Jesus' sins and was "charitable" with him). That is why he has written this response, being his attempt of
explaining away what even his own book obviously teaches."
My response:
Allah Almighty can not be defined. He is a metaphorically (not literally) a
Compound One. He Has:
It seems clear that Allah Almighty was Simplifying some of His Holy and Divine Attributes
to help us understand Him better. He may not necessarily have a face, mouth, teeth,
hair, legs, feet, rear end, penis, etc...
Our earthly bodies and their
characteristics are not Divine.
So to answer Shamoun's absurd comments above about GOD Almighty having a Spirit, yes He
definitely Has a metaphoric one (32:9, 38:72), but the comparison itself to our human-spirits is
degrading to GOD Almighty. Our human-spirits are created through the Holy Spirit,
and GOD Almighty Himself is fully independent from that:
"When you send your Spirit, they are created,
and you renew the face of the earth. (From the NIV
Bible, Psalm 104:30)"
"Where can I go from your Spirit?
Where can I flee from your presence? (From the NIV
Bible, Psalm 139:7)"
"Teach me to do your will, for you are my God; may
your good Spirit lead me on level ground. (From
the NIV Bible, Psalm 143:10)"
"But He fashioned him in due proportion, and
breathed into him something of His Spirit. And He gave you (the
faculties of) hearing and sight and feeling (and understanding): little thanks do ye give!
(The Noble Quran, 32:9)"
"When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and
breathed into him of My Spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him. (The Noble Quran, 38:72)"
"When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and
breathed into him of My Spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him. (The Noble Quran, 15:29)"
"And (remember) her who guarded her chastity: We
breathed into her of Our Spirit, and We made her and her son a sign for all
peoples. (The Noble Quran, 21:91)"
"And Mary the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity;
and We breathed into (her body) of Our Spirit; and she testified
to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout
(servants). (The Noble Quran, 66:12)"
That is why in the end, our spirits along with our bodies will be Judged by GOD
Almighty. Only GOD Almighty can Devastate our spirits in Hell, or Bless them in
Heaven. He is neither part of us nor part of the Holy Spirit:
"The Day that the Spirit and the Angels
will stand forth in ranks, none shall speak except any who is permitted
by (God) Most Gracious, and He will say what is right. (The Noble Quran, 78:38)"
"A questioner asked about a Penalty to befall- The
Unbelievers, the which there is none to ward off,- (A Penalty) from God, Lord of the Ways
of Ascent. The Angels and the Spirit ascend unto Him in a Day the
measure whereof is (as) fifty thousand years: Therefore do thou hold Patience,- a Patience
of beautiful (contentment). (The Noble Quran, 70:1-5)"
"Therein come down the Angels and the Spirit by
God's permission, on every errand: (The Noble Quran, 97:4)"
"Not one of the beings
in the heavens and the earth but must come to God) Most Gracious as a servant.
He does take an account of them (all), and hath numbered them (all) exactly. And everyone
of them will come to Him singly on the Day of Judgment. On those who believe and work
deeds of righteousness, will (God) Most Gracious bestow love. (The Noble Quran, 19:93-96)"
Our spirits are of the Holy
Spirit, not of GOD Almighty.
The Holy Spirit, us, the Angels
and everything else ALL WORSHIP GOD Almighty.
He wrote:
"Say: He is God, the One and Only; God, the Eternal,
Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto
Him.
(The Noble Quran, 112:1-4)"
RESPONSE:
The heart of the Trinity is that there is only one eternal God, only one sovereign
Creator and Sustainer, and that there is nothing like him (Cf. Deuteronomy 4:35,39, 6:4,
32:39; Isaiah 40:12-18,25-26; Jeremiah 10:6-12; John 5:44; Romans 3:30; 1 Timothy 2:5;
Jude 1:25).
Osama confuses God’s unity with singularity, that God being one negates him from
also being plural in some sense. God can be one without having to be a singularity, since
he can exist in plurality while still retaining his unity. Osama basically believes this
since he accepts that Allah has a plurality of attributes and that this in no way
nullifies Allah being one at the same time (see also Luke 2:52: GOD forgave Jesus).
My response:
That is all a bunch of gibberish satan-made nonsense. GOD Almighty as I
demonstrated and proved above is an Absolute One! The Holy Spirit as I proved above
worships GOD Almighty and has limited duties and only works through GOD
Almighty's Divine Commands.
Like I mentioned above, to the polytheist trinitarian pagans, anything that can not be
seen by our human-eyes and has great power must be GOD Almighty Himself. Hilarious
indeed.
He wrote:
Furthermore, when the Quran says that Allah neither begets nor is begotten, it refers
to Allah having children in a carnal sense, or being conceived as a result of a sexual
union:
Yet they ascribe to God, as associates, the jinn, though He created them; and they
impute to Him sons and daughters without any knowledge. Glory be to Him! High be He
exalted above what they describe! The Creator of the heavens and the earth -- how
should He have a son, seeing that He has no consort, and He created all things, and He
has knowledge of everything? S. 6:100-101
He -- exalted be our Lord's majesty! He has not taken to Himself either consort or a
son. S. 72:3
The Quran has obviously misunderstood what the Holy Bible and orthodox Christians mean
when they speak of Christ being God’s Son, or that God became a man without ceasing
to be God (Luke 2:52: GOD forgave Jesus' sins and was "charitable" with him). We do not mean that God had sex with a female in order to conceive Christ, or
to become a man. Jesus’ Sonship is purely spiritual in nature, and is a relational
term referring to the inner life of God; that within God’s eternal existence, there
are distinct, yet inseparable Persons who have intimate communion and fellowship.
We therefore challenge Osama to produce passages where the authentic Christian
understanding of Christ’s Sonship is undermined, not a gross distortion of it, i.e.
that Christ is God’s Son due to a sexual, carnal union.
My response:
The only one here who is totally and hopelessly confused is you and all of the
polytheist trinitarian pagans out there. The sons and daughters that GOD Almighty is
Talking about in Noble Verses 6:100-101 are the men and the female-god idols that were
worshiped and glorified.
GOD could Destroy Jesus:
Jesus Christ is definitely helpless and infinitely weak when compared to
Allah Almighty:
"In blasphemy indeed are those
that say that God is Christ the son of Mary. Say: "Who then hath the least power
against God,
if His will were to destroy Christ the son of Mary, his mother, and all
every - one that is on the earth? For to God belongeth the dominion of the
heavens and the earth, and all that is between. He createth what He pleaseth.
For God hath power over all things." (The
Noble Quran, 5:17)"
Noble Verse(s) 5:17
Yusuf
Ali:
[005:017] In blasphemy indeed are those that say that God is
Christ the son of Mary. Say: "Who then hath the least power against God,
if
His will were to destroy Christ the son of Mary,
his mother, and all every - one that is on the earth? For to God
belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is
between. He createth what He pleaseth. For God hath power over all
things."
Arabic (Read from right to left. Also, all png image files:
[1]
[2]. Quran Moral Code (100s of them)]):
5:17 لقد
كفر الذين قالوا ان الله هو المسيح ابن مريم قل فمن يملك من الله شيئا
ان اراد ان
يهلك المسيح ابن مريم وامه ومن في الارض جميعا ولله ملك
السماوات والارض ومابينهما يخلق مايشاء والله على كل شئ قدير
Matthew 7:22-23: GOD sent Jesus to
be Christianity's lying spirit:
Isaiah 56:5: Muslim is the future believers' name. Jesus called every believer a Muslim in Luke 6:40.
Virgin Mary is being group-incest-raped by
some trinity members in point #14 below.
More on the trinity
bed that the virgin
Mary got deflowered in by her older siblings. How many were they?
Mary: Fornicate with you "in
my mother's bed".
Are virgin Mary's mother and bed also members of the barfinity?
The polytheist trinitarian pagan's trinity is pornity.
Trinity is pornographic. In the NT, Jesus calls his followers his brides (Matthew
25:1-10).
Their butts, anuses, rectums and vaginas are all his vaginas. Keep in mind the first 200 years no gospels and ample church forgeries.
Opposite to all of
this pornography, Allah Almighty in the Glorious Quran said He has no
Divine Son and no Divine Consort (wife, bride, girlfriend, fiancee, companion), and zero Divine Partners. All Glory and Praise and Holiness and Sovereignty belong to Him, the Absolute One Allah Almighty Alone, and none else:
In regards to "sons of GOD" in the bible, here is what Allah Almighty Said about
them:
"And they say: "(God) Most Gracious has begotten offspring." Glory to
Him! they are (but) servants raised to honour.
(The Noble Quran, 21:26)"
In Hebrew, the beloved ones of GOD Almighty from His Servants on
earth were called "Benie Elohim" (People of GOD). "Ben" in
Hebrew or "Bin" in Arabic (as in Osama bin Laden) MEANS A MEMBER
OF A TRIBE OR COMMUNITY!
While "Ben" and "Bin" can also mean
biological son, but the use of them when referring to a group of people always means
"part of the community". So the People of GOD Almighty (Benie Elohim), and
Jesus (Ben Elohim) don't mean anything!
Most ridiculously,
the polytheist trinitarian pagans took Jesus
as the literal "son of GOD" and
made him the Creator of the Universe!
Most blasphemous
indeed!
Also,
see the "Holy Family Trinity" above.
To the reader, please visit the following articles:
Interestingly, the Quran says that if God does have a Son then Muslims are obligated to
serve or worship him:
Say: 'If the All-merciful has a son, then I am the first to serve him. S. 43:81
Say: "If (God) Most Gracious had a son, I would be the first to worship." Y.
Ali
Since God’s true Word says that God does have a Son, the Lord Jesus, then Osama
must worship him just as his own book says he should do. This is precisely what the people
did when they were confronted with God’s beloved Son:
"And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, ‘You are
certainly God's Son!’" Matthew 14:33
"For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son, so
that all will honor the Son EVEN AS they honor the Father. He who does not honor the
Son does not honor the Father who sent Him." John 5:22-23
"And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says, ‘Let all
God's angels worship him.’" Hebrews 1:6
My response:
First of all, let us see what Allah Almighty really Said in Noble Verse 43:81:
[043:080] Or do they think
that We hear not their secrets and their private counsels? Indeed (We do), and Our
messengers are by them, to record.
[043:081] Say: "If (God)
Most Gracious had a son, I would be the first to worship."
[043:082] Glory to the Lord of
the heavens and the earth, the Lord of the Throne (of Authority)! (He is free) from the
things they attribute (to him)!
[043:083] So leave
them to babble and play (with vanities) until they meet that Day of theirs,
which they have been promised.
So as Allah Almighty Commands me, I'll just let Shamoun babble his mouth in this one.
Now in regards to Jesus being the "son of GOD", and being
"worshiped" (deliberately false translation), I've debunked
those who lousy points with ample evidence in the following articles (they're contents are
way too long to paste here):
Do People and
Angels bowing down to Jesus in Worship really prove that he is the Creator of the
Universe?See how the word "Worship" used for
Jesus doesn't even exist in the original Greek Bibles. The Trinitarian English
translations are nothing but hoaxes and deceptions. The article responds to Matthew 15:9 and other
English mistranslated verses in the Bible (Luke 2:52: GOD forgave Jesus' sins and was "charitable" with him). Also,
what about when David "prostrated" with his face down to the ground to
Saul? Was David worshiping Saul?
"Say: 'O People of the Book (i.e., Jews and Christians)!
Come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but
Allah; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not, from among
ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah.' If then they turn back, say ye:
'Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's Will).' (The Noble Quran, 3:64)"
RESPONSE:
The Quran doesn’t need to tell the People of the Book, i.e. Jews and Christians,
to worship none but God, since their own Bible exhorts them to do this. The confusion with
Osama is that he assumes that God must exist as a singular Person in order to be one, and
to worship God as a Trinity violates the worship which God alone deserves. If Christians
were worshiping creatures besides God, then this would be a violation of pure monotheism,
and if Osama could show that the Trinity is both illogical and unbiblical then he could
make his case. Thus far, Osama hasn’t been able to prove any of these points, but has
only erroneously assumed that God cannot exist as more than one Person and still remain
one eternal Being.
Furthermore, despite the Quran commanding believers to worship none but God, and to
take no other lords besides him, we find instances within the Quran where others besides
Allah are worshiped and addressed as lord:
And when We said unto the angels: Prostrate yourselves before Adam, they fell
prostrate (osjudoo li-adama fasajadoo), all save Iblis. He demurred
through pride, and so became a disbeliever. S. 2:34 Pickthall
Behold! Joseph said to his father: "O my father! I did see eleven stars and the
sun and the moon: I saw them prostrate (sajideena) themselves to me!" S. 12:4
Y. Ali
And he raised his parents upon the throne and they fell down in prostration (sujjadan)
before him, and he said: O my father! this is the significance of my vision of old; my
Lord has indeed made it to be true; and He was indeed kind to me when He brought me forth
from the prison and brought you from the desert after the Shaitan had sown dissensions
between me and my brothers, surely my Lord is benignant to whom He pleases; surely He is
the Knowing, the Wise. S. 12:100 Shakir
Here, two finite creatures, Adam and Joseph, are worshiped, one by angels and the other
by fellow prophets and believers! These passages have caused considerable problems for
Muslims, as the following translation indicates.
And he raised his parents upon the throne and they all fell down prostrate BEFORE ALLAH
for him … S. 12:100 Sher Ali
Sher Ali saw the problem with Joseph being worshiped, so he translated the text in a
way where it is Allah, not Joseph, who receives prostration! Another Ali, namely the late
Maulana Muhammad Ali, translated the same passage in a similar manner:
And he raised his parents on the throne, and they fall prostrate FOR HIS SAKE... (Source; capital
emphasis ours)
Ali says in a footnote:
100b Seeing the highly dignified position to which Joseph had been raised in
Egypt, they all fell prostrate BEFORE GOD as a mark of thanksgiving … (underline and
capital emphasis ours)
Muhammad Ali took it further and rendered surah 2:34 in the following manner:
And when We said to the angels, Be SUBMISSIVE to Adam, they SUBMITTED, but Iblis (did
not) ... S. 2:34 (Source; capital emphasis ours)
He noted:
34aSajada is really synonymous with khad'a, i.e. he was lowly
or submissive (LL). In the Holy Qur'an, the word is frequently used to signify
simple submission. And you will also say, sajadu la-hu meaning he saluted him
or he paid respect or honour to him (LL).
The two Alis obviously had a real difficult time with these Quranic passages, obviously
realizing that there was a problem with Adam and Joseph receiving prostration. They knew
that these acts were violations of the worship which Muslims claim that only Allah
receives.
There is more:
"There did Zakariya PRAY TO HIS LORD: 'O MY LORD! Grant unto me from Thee a
progeny that is pure: for Thou art He that heareth prayer!' While he was standing in
prayer in the chamber, THE ANGELS CALLED UNTO HIM: 'Allah doth give thee glad
tidings of Yahyá (John) witnessing the truth of a Word from Allah, and (be besides)
noble, chaste, and a prophet,- of the (goodly) company of the righteous.' HE SAID: 'O
MY LORD! How shall I have a son, seeing I am very old, and my wife is barren?' 'Thus,'
was the answer, 'Doth Allah accomplish what He willeth.' HE SAID: 'O MY LORD! Give
me a Sign!' 'Thy Sign,' was the answer, 'Shall be that thou shalt speak to no man for
three days but with signals. Then celebrate the praises of thy Lord again and again, and
glorify Him in the evening and in the morning.' S. 3:38-41 Shakir
When he called upon his Lord in a low voice, He said: MY LORD! surely my bones
are weakened and my head flares with hoariness, and, my Lord! I have never been
unsuccessful in my prayer to Thee: And surely I fear my cousins after me, and my wife is
barren, therefore grant me from Thyself an heir, Who should inherit me and inherit from
the children of Yaqoub, and make him, my Lord, one in whom Thou art well pleased. O
Zakariya! surely We give you good news of a boy whose name shall be Yahya: We have not
made before anyone his equal. He said: O MY LORD! when shall I have a son, and my wife
is barren, and I myself have reached indeed the extreme degree of old age? HE SAID: So
shall it be, YOUR LORD SAYS: It is easy to Me, and indeed I created you before, when
you were nothing. He said: My Lord! give me a sign. He said: Your sign is that you will
not be able to speak to the people three nights while in sound health. S. 19:3-10 Shakir
These passages mention Zechariah's prayer to God for a son, the angels' response, and
the subsequent discussion which allegedly took place between them. Zechariah addresses the
angels, or one specific angel, as his lord! Here is a portion of the passage that makes
this point clear:
He said, ‘O my Lord, how shall I have a son, seeing my wife is barren, and I have
attained to the declining of old age?' SAID HE, 'So it shall be; THY LORD says,
"Easy is that for Me, seeing that I created thee aforetime, when thou wast
nothing."’ S. 19:8-9 Arberry
The entity speaking to Zechariah mentions what the lord had said, which makes it clear
that the one speaking to Zechariah could not be Allah. This, thereby, shows that Zechariah
was addressing someone other than Allah as his lord!
The Quran say that even Jesus’ mother Mary addressed the angels as her lord:
"Behold! THE ANGELS SAID: 'O Mary! Allah hath chosen thee and purified thee
- chosen thee above the women of all nations. O Mary! worship thy Lord devoutly: Prostrate
thyself, and bow down (in prayer) with those who bow down.' This is part of the tidings of
the things unseen, which We reveal unto thee (O Messenger) by inspiration: Thou wast not
with them when they cast lots with pens (or arrows), as to which of them should be charged
with the care of Mary: Nor wast thou with them when they disputed (the point). Behold! THE
ANGELS SAID: 'O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will
be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honor in this world and the Hereafter and of
(the company of) those nearest to Allah. He shall speak to the people in childhood and in
maturity. And he shall be (of the company) of the righteous.' She said: 'O MY LORD!
How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?' HE SAID: 'Even so; Allah createth
what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, "Be," and it
is!'" S. 3:42-47
Thus, prophets and believers are pictured as violating Islamic monotheism!
My response:
I think everyone here is seeing how hopeless and ridiculous Sam Shamoun's arguments
are. I mean to even remotely suggest that Islam tolerates associating partners with
Allah Almighty is indeed preposterous!
First of all, in regards to the Angels prostrating to Adam by the COMMAND of Allah
Almighty, it is not at all an act of worship or glorification to Adam, peace be upon him.
It was GOD
Almighty's Blessings on His Good Servants from Mankind by telling them that they are even better than the Angels themselves!
No "original sin" BS, no "GOD dying for people's sins" BS, no "all sins are equal" BS, no lies, no filth, no deceptions! Just plain Pure and Divine Truth!
Now in regards to the "entity" speaking to Zechariah, that is all Shamoun's
hopeless dreams about proving the duality of GOD Almighty. As I mentioned,
demonstrated and proved above, the Angels are "tools"
that GOD Almighty Created! He Uses them whenever He Pleases and they all
work under His Holy and Divine Command. It is truly sad that this is
too hard for the polytheist trinitarian pagans to believe. They thrive on twisting
and deceiving, because they are as Allah Almighty Said:
"Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will
not return (to the path). (The Noble Quran, 2:18)"
"The parable of those who reject Faith is as if one were to
shout Like a goat- herd, to things that listen to nothing but calls and cries: Deaf,
dumb, and blind, they are void of wisdom. (The
Noble Quran, 2:171)"
"It is he whom God guides, that is on true Guidance; but he
whom He leaves astray - for such wilt thou find no protector besides Him. On the Day of
Judgment We shall gather, them together, prone on their faces, blind, dumb, and
deaf: their abode will be Hell: every time it shows abatement, We shall increase from them
the fierceness of the Fire. (The Noble
Quran, 17:97)"
Like I said above,
to the polytheist trinitarian pagans, anything
that can not be seen by our human-eyes and has power must be GOD Almighty Himself! Hilarious indeed!
In regards to the Prophets violating the Islamic Monotheism, again, that is also another
hopeless and ridiculous lie. The "my lord" DOES
NOT AT ALL mean "my GOD Almighty"!
I guess the "land lords" and "drug lords" and all of the "lords"
in England are Shamoun's gods. Very laughable indeed!
He wrote:
1- The Role of the Holy Spirit in Islam:
There are two known roles that the Holy Spirit plays
according to Islam:
1- It creates our "spirits." Allah Almighty uses it to
blow into our mothers' wombs our human-spirits. That is why abortion is prohibited
in Islam, because the fetus or foetus does have spirit (life) and it is a human
being. It's not just a little piece of unliving flesh:
"But He fashioned him in due proportion, and
breathed into him something of His Spirit. And He gave you (the faculties
of) hearing and sight and feeling (and understanding): little thanks do ye give!
(The Noble Quran, 32:9)"
"When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My
Spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him.
(The Noble Quran, 38:72)"
"When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My
Spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him.
(The Noble Quran, 15:29)"
"And (remember) her who guarded her chastity: We breathed into her of Our
Spirit, and We made her and her son a sign for all peoples.
(The Noble Quran, 21:91)"
"And Mary the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed
into (her body) of Our Spirit; and she testified to the truth of the words of her
Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout (servants).
(The Noble Quran, 66:12)"
RESPONSE:
There is not a single Quranic verse which says that God blows his Holy Spirit into our
mothers’ wombs. The blowing of God’s Spirit is only made in connection with the
creation of Adam and Jesus, just as Osama’s own citations show. But Osama’s
point that the Spirit creates is correct and agrees with God’s true word:
"The Spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me
life." Job 33:4
More on this a little later.
My response:
The very first Noble Verse, 32:9, that I mentioned does talk about all humans and not
just Adam. Here is a more thorough text for the reader:
"He Who has made everything which He has created most good: He
began the creation of man with (nothing more than) clay, And made his progeny
from a quintessence of the nature of a fluid despised: But He fashioned him in due
proportion, and breathed into him something of His spirit. And He gave you
(the faculties of) hearing and sight and feeling (and understanding): little thanks do ye
give! (The Noble Quran, 32:7-9)"
"He began the creation of man" and "And He gave YOU (the faculties of) hearing and sight" clearly
and irrefutably prove that Allah Almighty is Talking about all mankind
and not just Adam, peace be upon him.
He wrote:
Furthermore, it is not at all the case that Islam prohibits abortion completely, but
only during certain stages of pregnancy. This is due to the hadiths which say that the
spirit or soul of the fetus isn’t created, or given, until the 120th day
of pregnancy:
Narrated Abdullah:
Allah's Apostle, the true and truly inspired said, "(as regards your creation), every
one of you is collected in the womb of his mother for the first forty days, and then he
becomes a clot for an other forty days, and then a piece of flesh for an other forty days.
Then Allah sends an angel to write four words: He writes his deeds, time of his death,
means of his livelihood, and whether he will be wretched or blessed (in religion). Then
the soul is breathed into his body. So a man may do deeds characteristic of the people
of the (Hell) Fire, so much so that there is only the distance of a cubit between him and
it, and then what has been written (by the angel) surpasses, and so he starts doing deeds
characteristic of the people of Paradise and enters Paradise. Similarly, a person may do
deeds characteristic of the people of Paradise, so much so that there is only the distance
of a cubit between him and it, and then what has been written (by the angel) surpasses,
and he starts doing deeds of the people of the (Hell) Fire and enters the (Hell)
Fire." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 55, Number 549)
Narrated 'Abdullah:
Allah's Apostle, the truthful and truly-inspired, said, "Each one of you collected in
the womb of his mother for forty days, and then turns into a clot for an equal period (of
forty days) and turns into a piece of flesh for a similar period (of forty days) and then
Allah sends an angel and orders him to write four things, i.e., his provision, his age,
and whether he will be of the wretched or the blessed (in the Hereafter). THEN the soul
is breathed into him. And by Allah, a person among you (or a man) may do deeds of the
people of the Fire till there is only a cubit or an arm-breadth distance between him and
the Fire, but then that writing (which Allah has ordered the angel to write) precedes, and
he does the deeds of the people of Paradise and enters it; and a man may do the deeds of
the people of Paradise till there is only a cubit or two between him and Paradise, and
then that writing precedes and he does the deeds of the people of the Fire and enters
it." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 77, Number 593)
Dr. William Campbell comments on the practical implications that the Quran and hadiths,
specifically the claim that the fetus becomes a clot, have had on Muslims:
In the dictionaries of Wehr and Abdel-Nour the only meanings given for ‘alaqa in
this feminine singular form are "clot" and "leech", and in North
Africa both of these meanings are still used. Many patients have come to me to have a
leech removed from their throats, and many women, believing that the fetus goes through a
stage as a clot, have come to me in the dispensary asking for medicine because their
periods haven't come. When I would answer that I couldn't do that because I believed that
the fetus was a person, they would say, "but it's still blood." (Campbell, The
Qur’an and the Bible in light of History and Science, Section Four, Science and
Revelation; online
edition)
Thus, contrary to Osama’s statement, Islam does teach that the fetus is nothing
more than nonliving flesh for the first 120 days.
The Holy Bible, unlike the Islamic literature, clearly says that life begins at the
moment of conception:
"Your hands fashioned and made me, and now you have destroyed me altogether.
Remember that you have made me like clay; and will you return me to the dust? Did you
not pour me out like milk and curdle me like cheese? You clothed me with skin and
flesh, and knit me together with bones and sinews. You have granted me life and
steadfast love, and your care has preserved my spirit." Job 10:8-12
"For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother's womb.
I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Wonderful are your works; my
soul knows it very well. My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in
secret, intricately woven in the depths of the earth. Your eyes saw my unformed
substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me,
when as yet there were none of them." Psalm 139:13-16
My response:
It's funny how Shamoun didn't bold any word in any of the biblical verses that he
presented above. None of them show that abortion is prohibited.
None of them say that
the fetus has a spirit!
Also in regards to abortion in Islam, there is more evidence from the Noble Quran
Itself that support my argument about abortion being prohibited in Islam. While the
fetus may not have a spirit for the first 120 days in the mother's womb, but the
controversial topic of abortion is discussed in good details on my site at:
But then again, I could be wrong
regarding abortion in the first 120 days being prohibited. I will update the article
with the Hadiths that you provided above soon insha'Allah (if Allah Almighty is Willing).
The first initial problem that I have is the authenticity of the Hadiths that you
provided above. Like the
bible, they have Clear Truth and they have man-made lies and corruption in them.
So, I am not sure if I would totally rule out the
abortion-being-prohibited in the first 120 days. To me as it stands right
now, abortion is completely prohibited in Islam, according to the Noble Quran.
And Allah Almighty Knows Best.
He wrote:
Osama continues:
2- It is used to provide Divine Guidance to the Believers, those whom
Allah Almighty Loves and Favors. It's not just the Holy Spirit that gives
Guidance. Angels too give it:
"Raised high above ranks (or degrees), (He is) the Lord of
the Throne (of Authority): by His Command doth He send the Spirit (of inspiration)
to any of His servants he pleases, that it may warn (men) of the Day of Mutual
Meeting,-
(The Noble Quran, 40:15)"
"Say, the Holy Spirit has brought the Revelation from thy Lord in Truth,
in order to strengthen those who believe, and as a Guide and Glad Tidings to
Muslims.
(The Noble Quran, 16:102)"
"Thou wilt not find any people who believe in God and the Last Day, loving those
who resist God and His Apostle, even though they were their fathers or their sons, or
their brothers, or their kindred. For such He has written Faith in their hearts, and
strengthened them with a Spirit from Himself. And He will admit them to Gardens
beneath which Rivers flow, to dwell therein (for ever). God will be well pleased with
them, and they with Him. They are the Party of God (Luke 2:52: GOD forgave Jesus' sins and was "charitable" with him)
. Truly it is the Party of God that will
achieve Felicity. (The Noble Quran, 58:22)"
"Then will God say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and
to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the Holy Spirit, so that thou didst
speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book
and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel and behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the
figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My
leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou
bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel
from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the clear Signs, and the unbelievers
among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic.'
(The Noble Quran, 5:110)"
So as you can see, Allah Almighty Created the Holy Spirit for specific functions
not only on this earth, but also perhaps else where in the Universe where we don't know
about. But it is in no way GOD Almighty Himself.
RESPONSE:
First, none of these passages say that Allah created the Holy Spirit, so it is very
hard for anyone to see what Osama claims. Second, Osama hasn’t really understood
these passages since the references clearly ascribe divine attributes to the Spirit. For
instance, according to surah 58:22, the Spirit from Allah strengthens all
believers, showing that the Spirit is both omnipresent (present everywhere) and omnipotent
(almighty or all-powerful). After all, the only way that the Spirit can be with all
believers to strengthen them is if he has these specific attributes. But only God is
omnipotent and omnipresent, which means that the Spirit is actually God, while being
distinct from God at the same time! So we strongly disagree with Osama, the Spirit is
"GOD Almighty Himself."
My response:
This response is divided into two parts:
Part I:
Like I said above, to the polytheist trinitarian pagans, anything that is
not seen by our human-eyes and has great power must be GOD Almighty Himself!
Like I mentioned above, GOD Almighty Created "tools"
that He Uses. These tools are generally simplified and called as "Angels",
but there is more to them than just that. The creation of our human-spirits through
the Holy Spirit (as mentioned in the bible and the Noble Quran as shown below) does indeed
mean that the Holy Spirit have Great Attributes and Power according to us humans, but it doesn't automatically make it part of GOD Almighty.
Our human-spirits are nothing when compared to GOD Almighty. They're not even worth
a spit when compared to GOD Almighty. The trinitarians' blasphemous argument is
easily refuted, because just because the "tools" that
GOD Almighty Created do create us, it doesn't mean that they are GOD Almighty.
Here are some of the tools of GOD Almighty that bring us to existence:
(a)- The eggs and sperms of the mother and
father. The mother's egg and father's sperm "create"
the human flesh. It's not just the Holy Spirit that
"creates" humans.
(b)- The Holy Spirit blows into our
fetus-bodies our human-spirits (life):
"He Who has made everything which He has created most good: He
began the creation of man with (nothing more than) clay, And made his progeny
from a quintessence of the nature of a fluid despised: But He fashioned him in due
proportion, and breathed into him something of His spirit. And He gave you
(the faculties of) hearing and sight and feeling (and understanding): little thanks do ye
give! (The Noble Quran, 32:7-9)"
As we clearly see in these Noble Verses, Allah Almighty talked
about the beginning of the creation of Mankind (starting from Adam peace be upon him) and
repeating the cycle to all of us.
(c)- The material that makes up our
human-flesh all comes from our mother earth, through soil and water combined together
as the Noble Quran Claimed it and modern science today confirmed it.
Using Shamoun's absurd logic, this makes your parents, the Holy Spirit and our mother
earth all as part of GOD Almighty, since ALL OF THEM created you.
Basically in a nutshell,
to the polytheist trinitarian pagans, anything that is unseen to our human-eye and has Great Power, must be without doubt GOD Almighty Himself!
Very similar to
hinduism.
2- The Holy Spirit is a tool
used by GOD Almighty. It is a Creation by GOD Almighty. Our spirits like I
said above are nothing when compared to GOD Almighty, and hence, the Holy Spirit creating
them doesn't mean much.
Part II:
Again, Allah Almighty can not be defined. He is a metaphorically (not literally)
a Compound One. He Has:
It seems clear that Allah Almighty was Simplifying some of His Holy and Divine Attributes
to help us understand Him better. He may not necessarily have a face, mouth, teeth,
hair, legs, feet, rear end, penis, etc...
Our earthly bodies and their
characteristics are not Divine.
So to answer Shamoun's absurd comments above about GOD Almighty having a Spirit, yes He
definitely Has a metaphoric one (32:9, 38:72), but the comparison itself to our human-spirits is
degrading to GOD Almighty. Our human-spirits are created through the Holy Spirit,
and GOD Almighty Himself is fully independent from that:
"When you send your Spirit, they are created,
and you renew the face of the earth. (From the NIV
Bible, Psalm 104:30)"
"Where can I go from your Spirit?
Where can I flee from your presence? (From the NIV
Bible, Psalm 139:7)"
"Teach me to do your will, for you are my God; may
your good Spirit lead me on level ground. (From
the NIV Bible, Psalm 143:10)"
"But He fashioned him in due proportion, and
breathed into him something of His Spirit. And He gave you (the
faculties of) hearing and sight and feeling (and understanding): little thanks do ye give!
(The Noble Quran, 32:9)"
"When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and
breathed into him of My Spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him. (The Noble Quran, 38:72)"
"When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and
breathed into him of My Spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him. (The Noble Quran, 15:29)"
"And (remember) her who guarded her chastity: We
breathed into her of Our Spirit, and We made her and her son a sign for all
peoples. (The Noble Quran, 21:91)"
"And Mary the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity;
and We breathed into (her body) of Our Spirit; and she testified
to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout
(servants). (The Noble Quran, 66:12)"
That is why in the end, our spirits along with our bodies will be Judged by GOD
Almighty. Only GOD Almighty can Devastate our spirits in Hell, or Bless them in
Heaven. He is neither part of us nor part of the Holy Spirit:
"The Day that the Spirit and the Angels
will stand forth in ranks, none shall speak except any who is permitted
by (God) Most Gracious, and He will say what is right. (The Noble Quran, 78:38)"
"A questioner asked about a Penalty to befall- The
Unbelievers, the which there is none to ward off,- (A Penalty) from God, Lord of the Ways
of Ascent. The Angels and the Spirit ascend unto Him in a Day the
measure whereof is (as) fifty thousand years: Therefore do thou hold Patience,- a Patience
of beautiful (contentment). (The Noble Quran, 70:1-5)"
"Therein come down the Angels and the Spirit by
God's permission, on every errand: (The Noble Quran, 97:4)"
"Not one of the beings
in the heavens and the earth but must come to God) Most Gracious as a servant.
He does take an account of them (all), and hath numbered them (all) exactly. And everyone
of them will come to Him singly on the Day of Judgment. On those who believe and work
deeds of righteousness, will (God) Most Gracious bestow love. (The Noble Quran, 19:93-96)"
Our spirits are of the Holy
Spirit, not of GOD Almighty.
The Holy Spirit, us, the Angels
and everything else ALL WORSHIP GOD Almighty.
He wrote:
2- The Role of the Holy Spirit in the Bibles:
The Bible's Old Testament is like the Noble Quran regarding
the role of the Holy Spirit. It never claimed that the Holy Spirit is GOD Almighty
Himself. In section 4 below, you will see some of the types of the Holy Spirit, or
Spirit, that GOD Almighty Created for Mankind. But for now, let us see what the
Bible says about the Holy Spirit:
"When you send your Spirit, they are created,
and you renew the face of the earth.
(From the
NIV Bible, Psalm 104:30)"
"Where can I go from your Spirit? Where can I flee from your
presence?
(From the NIV Bible, Psalm 139:7)"
"Teach me to do your will, for you are my God; may your good Spirit lead me
on level ground.
(From the NIV Bible, Psalm
143:10)"
So far, these verses are talking about the Spirit from GOD
Almighty. The first verse above, Psalm 104:30, perfectly agrees with the Noble
Verses above about GOD Almighty Blowing His Spirit into our mothers' wombs when we're
fetus.
RESPONSE:
If Osama is correct then this means that the Quran, in agreement with the Old
Testament, teaches that the Holy Spirit is eternal and therefore God (Luke 2:52: GOD forgave Jesus' sins and was "charitable" with him).
My response:
Again, to the polytheist trinitarian pagans, anything that is not seen by our
human-eyes and has great power must be GOD Almighty Himself!
He wrote:
In the first two Psalm citations, the Spirit is identified as the Creator and is said
to be omnipresent. Here are the immediate contexts of both citations:
"Bless the LORD, O my soul! O LORD my God, you are very great! You are
clothed with splendor and majesty, covering yourself with light as with a garment,
stretching out the heavens like a tent. He lays the beams of his chambers on the waters;
he makes the clouds his chariot; he rides on the wings of the wind; he makes his
messengers winds, his ministers a flaming fire. He set the earth on its foundations, so
that it should never be moved. You covered it with the deep as with a garment; the waters
stood above the mountains. At your rebuke they fled; at the sound of your thunder they
took to flight. The mountains rose, the valleys sank down to the place that you appointed
for them. You set a boundary that they may not pass, so that they might not again cover
the earth. You make springs gush forth in the valleys; they flow between the hills; they
give drink to every beast of the field; the wild donkeys quench their thirst. Beside them
the birds of the heavens dwell; they sing among the branches. From your lofty abode you
water the mountains; the earth is satisfied with the fruit of your work. You cause the
grass to grow for the livestock and plants for man to cultivate, that he may bring forth
food from the earth and wine to gladden the heart of man, oil to make his face shine and
bread to strengthen man's heart. The trees of the LORD are watered abundantly, the cedars
of Lebanon that he planted. In them the birds build their nests; the stork has her home in
the fir trees. The high mountains are for the wild goats; the rocks are a refuge for the
rock badgers. He made the moon to mark the seasons; the sun knows its time for setting.
You make darkness, and it is night, when all the beasts of the forest creep about. The
young lions roar for their prey, seeking their food from God (Luke 2:52: GOD forgave Jesus' sins and was "charitable" with him). When the sun rises, they
steal away and lie down in their dens. Man goes out to his work and to his labor until the
evening. O LORD, how manifold are your works! In wisdom have you made them all; the earth
is full of your creatures. Here is the sea, great and wide, which teems with creatures
innumerable, living things both small and great. There go the ships, and Leviathan, which
you formed to play in it. These all look to you, to give them their food in due season.
When you give it to them, they gather it up; when you open your hand, they are filled with
good things. When you hide your face, they are dismayed; when you take away their breath,
they die and return to their dust. When you send forth your Spirit, they are created,
and you renew the face of the ground." Psalm 104:1-30
The passage is speaking of God as Creator and Sustainer of all things, and it is in
this connection that the Spirit is mentioned. The Psalmist is saying that God uses his
Spirit to create and to sustain, or renew, all creation, which shows that the Spirit has
all the attributes of God (Luke 2:52: GOD forgave Jesus' sins and was "charitable" with him). If the Spirit created all things, and this Psalm says he did,
then that means he existed before all creation, which means that the Spirit is eternal. If
the Spirit renews and sustains all things then this shows that he is all-powerful and
present everywhere, attributes which only God has.
"Where shall I go from your Spirit? Or where shall I flee from your
presence? If I ascend to heaven, you are there! If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there!
If I take the wings of the morning and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea, even there
your hand shall lead me, and your right hand shall hold me. If I say, ‘Surely the
darkness shall cover me, and the light about me be night,’ even the darkness is not
dark to you; the night is bright as the day, for darkness is as light with you."
Psalm 139:7-12
The Psalmist speaks of the Spirit being everywhere in creation, much like God, which
again shows that the Holy Spirit is God (Luke 2:52: GOD forgave Jesus' sins and was "charitable" with him). God’s Spirit, like his presence, permeates
all creation.
Finally, contrary to what Osama says, the OT explicitly calls the Spirit God:
"The Spirit of the LORD SPEAKS by me; his word is on my tongue. The
God of Israel has SPOKEN; the Rock of Israel has SAID to me: When one rules justly
over men, ruling in the fear of God," 2 Samuel 23:2-3
David equates the Spirit speaking with God speaking, showing that the Spirit is God!
Hence, if Osama is correct that the Quran is in agreement with the Old Testament, then
this means that the Quran teaches that Allah’s Spirit is "GOD Almighty
Himself"!
My response:
What a load of garbage indeed! The bible is loaded with figurative
verses and speech! Shamoun below was too unethical to remove my
link and all of the relevant links that I provided in my article to prevent the reader
from fully reading my side. What a coward indeed.
In 2 Samuel 23:2-3 above, the
"Spirit" is no more than the spirit of Inspiration!
Here are few types of the "Spirit" in the Bibles:
Isaiah 11:1-3
1. A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse; from his roots a
Branch will bear fruit.
2. The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him (Jesus)-- the Spirit of
wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of power, the Spirit of knowledge
and of the fear of the LORD (Jesus
fearing his GOD)--
3. and he will delight in the fear of the LORD. He will not judge by what he sees with his
eyes, or decide by what he hears with his ears;
As we see in Isaiah 11:1-3, there is:
1- Spirit of Wisdom and Understanding.
2- Spirit of Counsel and of power.
3- Spirit of Knowledge.
4- Spirit of the fear of the LORD.
Just in case he decides to remove my link again in his hopeless response, I will paste
the samples of figurative speech to show the reader that 2 Samuel 23:2-3 is no more than
the Spirit of Inspiration.
Important Note: Pay
attention to the people figuratively seeing GOD Almighty below, and yet, anyone who sees
GOD dies instantly.
Luke 11
2 He said to them, "When you pray, say: " 'Father,
hallowed be your name, your kingdom come.
3 Give us each day our daily bread.
4 Forgive us our sins, for we also forgive everyone who sins against us. And
lead us not into temptation.' "
5 Then he said to them, "Suppose one of you has a friend, and he goes to him at
midnight and says, 'Friend, lend me three loaves of bread,
YET, GOD ALMIGHTY DOESN'T TEMPT:
James 1
13When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting
me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;
14but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed.
15Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full
-grown, gives birth to death.
Luke 11:2-5 and James 1:13-15 above, clearly prove that GOD
Almighty does allow satan to tempt, not only us but also His Prophets.
GOD Almighty's Hand:
1 Samuel 5 9 But after they had moved it, the LORD's hand was
against that city, throwing it into a great panic. He afflicted the people of
the city, both young and old, with an outbreak of tumors.
10 So they sent the ark of God to Ekron. As the ark of God was entering Ekron, the people
of Ekron cried out, "They have brought the ark of the god of Israel around to us to
kill us and our people."
11 So they called together all the rulers of the Philistines and said, "Send the ark
of the god of Israel away; let it go back to its own place, or it will kill us and our
people." For death had filled the city with panic; God's hand was very heavy upon it.
The verses obviously are not talking about GOD Almighty's physical Arm, Hand and
Fingers.
They figuratively saw GOD Almighty:
"Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and the
seventy elders of Israel went up and saw the God of Israel. Under his feet
was something like a pavement made of sapphire, clear as the sky itself. But God did not
raise his hand against these leaders of the Israelites; they saw God, and they ate and
drank. (From the NIV Bible, Exodus 24:9-11)"
"Jacob said, "Please tell me your name." But
he replied, "Why do you ask my name?" Then he blessed him there. So Jacob called
the place Peniel, saying, "It is because I saw God face to face, and yet
my life was spared." The sun rose above him as he passed Peniel,
and he was limping because of his hip. (From the NIV
Bible, Genesis 32:29-31)"
"But Esau said, "I already have plenty, my brother.
Keep what you have for yourself." "No, please!" said Jacob. "If
I have found favor in your eyes, accept this gift from me. For to see your face
is like seeing the face of God, now that you have received me favorably.
Please accept the present that was brought to you, for God has been gracious to me and I
have all I need." And because Jacob insisted, Esau accepted it. (From the NIV Bible, Genesis 33:9-11)"
GOD Almighty figuratively hid His Face from them:
Deuteronomy 31
16 And the LORD said to Moses: "You are going to rest with your
fathers, and these people will soon prostitute themselves to the foreign gods of the land
they are entering. They will forsake me and break the covenant I made with them.
17 On that day I will become angry with them and forsake them; I will hide my
face from them, and they will be destroyed. Many disasters and difficulties
will come upon them, and on that day they will ask, 'Have not these disasters come upon us
because our God is not with us?'
18 And I will certainly hide my face on that day because of all their wickedness in
turning to other gods.
Psalm 27
8 My heart says of you, "Seek his face!" Your
face, LORD , I will seek.
9 Do not hide your face from me, do not turn your servant away in
anger; you have been my helper. Do not reject me or forsake me, O God my Savior.
10 Though my father and mother forsake me, the LORD will receive me.
Psalm 80
2 before Ephraim, Benjamin and Manasseh. Awaken your might;
come and save us.
3 Restore us, O God; make your face shine upon us, that we may be
saved.
4 O LORD God Almighty, how long will your anger smolder against the prayers of your
people?
Isaiah 59
1 Surely the arm of the LORD is not too short to save, nor
his ear too dull to hear.
2 But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden
his face from you, so that he will not hear.
3 For your hands are stained with blood, your fingers with guilt. Your lips have spoken
lies, and your tongue mutters wicked things.
But in reality and actuality, no one has seen GOD Almighty, because
they would then die:
Exodus 3
4 When the LORD saw that he had gone over to look, God called to him
from within the bush, "Moses! Moses!"
And Moses said, "Here I am."
5 "Do not come any closer," God said. "Take off your
sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy ground."
6 Then he said, "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac
and the God of Jacob." At this, Moses hid his face, because he was afraid to look at
God (Luke 2:52: GOD forgave Jesus' sins and was "charitable" with him).
Judges 13
21 When the angel of the LORD did not show himself again to
Manoah and his wife, Manoah realized that it was the angel of the LORD .
22 "We are doomed to die!" he said to his wife. "We have
seen God!"
23 But his wife answered, "If the LORD had meant to kill us, he would not have
accepted a burnt offering and grain offering from our hands, nor shown us all these things
or now told us this."
1 John 4
11 Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love
one another.
12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and
his love is made complete in us.
13 We know that we live in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit.
Jehovah or Yahweh Almighty was the One and Only LORD! The
"God" title was distorted in the Bible (Luke 2:52: GOD forgave Jesus' sins and was "charitable" with him). Even satan was called
"God":
2 Corinthians 4
3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are
perishing.
4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so
that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of
God (Luke 2:52: GOD forgave Jesus' sins and was "charitable" with him).
Only Yahweh (Jehovah in English) is not figurative. Exactly like no one has ever
seen GOD Almighty's Face exactly like Moses is also not figurative.
Can anyone really move a mountain with his eyes?
" Jesus replied, 'I tell you the truth, if you have faith
and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say
to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done.
If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.' (From the NIV Bible, Matthew 21:21)"
Can anyone really survive a poisonous snake's venom without treatment?
"And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my
name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes
with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at
all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.
(From the NIV Bible, Mark 16:17-18)"
He wrote:
Osama asks:
So does this now mean that the Holy Spirit, in the Bible, is part of GOD
Almighty?
Absolutely not! The Bible is filled with figurative
speech. I've written a detailed article proving this using many
examples. The Holy Spirit mentioned above is a creation from GOD Almighty.
It's purpose is to create our spirits as mentioned in Psalm 104:30.
RESPONSE:
Osama doesn’t realize how his comments are not only contradictory, but also
violate Islamic monotheism. As we showed above, nowhere in either the Holy Bible or the
Quran is the Holy Spirit said to be a creation of God (Luke 2:52: GOD forgave Jesus' sins and was "charitable" with him). The opposite is true as the verses
cited above showed, as well as the following citations prove:
"In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was without
form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was
hovering over the face of the waters." Genesis 1:1-2
The Holy Spirit was actively involved in the creation process, showing that he was
already there before the creation. To exist before creation implies that the Spirit is
eternal, just as the following passage explicitly states:
"how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the ETERNAL Spirit
offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve
the living God?" Hebrews 9:14
Furthermore, if Osama is correct that the Spirit is a creature (which he is not), then
this means that a creature has all the essential attributes of God, i.e. Creator,
Sustainer, omnipresent, omnipotent etc. Osama himself stated several times that the Spirit
creates our spirits, showing that he is our Creator. We are, therefore, left with one of
several conclusions:
Allah is guilty of the sin of association (shirk), since he has given a creature
many of his essential attributes.
Osama has committed shirk since he has ascribed to a creature the very divine
qualities that God alone has.
Since the Spirit created us, this means that we owe our existence to two beings, God
and a creature. If this is so, then we must give our allegiance to and worship the ones
who create and sustain us, which means Allah is not the only one worthy of worship.
There is actually support for this last point, since the Quran says that there are many
creators:
And certainly We created man of an extract of clay,
Then We made him a small seed in a firm resting-place, Then We made the seed a clot,
then We made the clot a lump of flesh, then We made (in) the lump of flesh bones, then We
clothed the bones with flesh, then We caused it to grow into another creation, so blessed
be Allah, the best of the creators. S. 23:12-14 Shakir
It is hard to accept Allah as the best of creators when the Spirit creates in the same
exact way. In fact, according to Osama, it is the Spirit which creates us in our
mothers’ wombs, so this passage should actually be speaking of him as the best of
creators, not Allah. Allah must therefore share the honor of best Creator with his Spirit,
who Osama says is not God but a creature.
This may even account for the language used in the following citation:
Do you yourselves create it, or are We the Creators? S. 56:59
The use of the plural must be referring to Allah and his Spirit, and cannot be a royal
plural or plural of majesty as many Muslims claim. After all, the Spirit is just as much
responsible for creation as Allah is.
Therefore, either this means that Allah has committed shirk for giving the
Spirit divine attributes, allowing a creature to share in his divine function of creating,
or Osama has done so for deifying a creature. But since it is the Quran which uses divine
language for the Spirit, this means that Allah is guilty of the sin of shirk.
My response:
Another load of gibberish and hopeless nonsense by Shamoun. As I demonstrated
above, the Holy Spirit only works under the Divine Command of GOD Almighty. It is a
Creation of GOD Almighty and It is under Him. The following Noble Verses will shed
more light, insha'Allah (if Allah Almighty is Willing):
"And among His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the
earth, and the living creatures that He has scattered through them:
and He has power to gather them together when He wills. (The
Noble Quran, 42:29)"
"Say: None in the heavens or on earth, except
God, knows what is hidden: nor can they perceive when they shall be raised up
(for Judgment). (The Noble Quran, 27:65)"
"Not one of the beings
in the heavens and the earth but must come to God) Most Gracious as a servant.
He does take an account of them (all), and hath numbered them (all) exactly. And everyone
of them will come to Him singly on the Day of Judgment. On those who believe and work
deeds of righteousness, will (God) Most Gracious bestow love. (The Noble Quran, 19:93-96)"
"The Day that the Spirit and the Angels
will stand forth in ranks, none shall speak except any who is permitted
by (God) Most Gracious, and He will say what is
right. (The Noble Quran, 78:38)"
"A questioner asked about a Penalty to befall- The
Unbelievers, the which there is none to ward off,- (A Penalty) from God, Lord of the Ways
of Ascent. The Angels and the Spirit ascend unto Him in a Day the
measure whereof is (as) fifty thousand years: Therefore do thou hold Patience,- a Patience
of beautiful (contentment). (The Noble Quran, 70:1-5)"
"Therein come down the Angels and the Spirit by God's
permission, on every errand: (The Noble Quran, 97:4)"
Now in regards to the language of plurality and Glorification that GOD Almighty Uses,
it is very simple to refute:
"Say: He is God, the One and Only; God, the Eternal,
Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him. (The Noble Quran, 112:1-4)"
"Then Praise be to Allah, Lord of the heavens and Lord of
the earth- Lord and Cherisher of all the worlds! To Him be Glory throughout the
heavens and the earth: and He is Exalted in Power, Full of Wisdom!. (The Noble Quran, 45:36-37)"
"Say: 'O People of the Book (i.e., Jews and Christians)!
Come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but
Allah; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not, from among
ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah.' If then they turn back, say ye:
'Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's Will).' (The Noble Quran, 3:64)"
GOD says "Let us create".... in the
book of Genesis: (Does "us" mean GOD and Jesus?)
It is unfortunate that Trinitarians try their best to try to prove that Jesus was GOD
himself even if the cost is corrupting the real meanings of the Old Testament. In Hebrew,
Arabic and Aramaic, the word "us" can be used to magnify a person. If a
Chief Executive Officer of a company in the Middle East wants to say for instance "I decided to do the following....", then he would say it
"We decided to do the following...." even though he
would be referring to himself only.
If the word "us" in the book of Genesis is referring to Trinity as
Trinitarians believe, then how come people back then were not
Trinitarians? How come the concept of Trinity was born 2300 years after the
book of Genesis? More than 1/3 of The Holy Quran (The Muslims' Holy Book) talks
about Allah Almighty (GOD). Allah Almighty in numerous verses says "We"
about himself. Muslims today believe in One GOD and don't believe in Trinity.
Jews also believe in One GOD and not in Trinity, even though in their Holy Books
such as the Talmud, GOD refers to Himself as "We" and not "I".
My dear friend, you must first study the languages of Hebrew, Arabic and Aramaic before
you (as a Trinitarian) start corrupting the Old Testament's real meanings. I
think this would be a sin !.
Further more regarding GOD using the word "Us" in the Bibles:
From www.jewsforjudaism.org:
Question : God said: "Let us make man in our image . .
." (Genesis 1:26) and "Come, let us go down, and there confound their
language" (Genesis 11:7). To whom does the "us" refer?
Answer: Trinitarian Christians maintain that Genesis 1:26 and Genesis 11:7 are prooftexts
of an alleged tri-unity god, but this claim is erroneous. The inference that "Let us
make man in our image" (Genesis 1:26) refers to the plurality of God is refuted by
the subsequent verse, which relates the creation of man to a singular God, "And God
created man in His image" (Genesis 1:27). In this verse the Hebrew verb
"created" appears in the singular form. If "let us make man" indicates
a numerical plurality, it would be followed in the next verse by, "And they created
man in their image." Obviously, the plural form is used in the same way as in the
divine appellation 'Elohim, to indicate the all-inclusiveness of God's attributes of
authority and power, the plurality of majesty. It is customary for one in authority to
speak of himself as if he were a plurality. Hence, Absalom said to Ahithophel, "Give
your counsel what we shall do" (2 Samuel 16:20). The context shows that he was
seeking advice for himself' yet he refers to himself as "we" (see also Ezra
4:16-19).
He wrote:
Another purpose for the Holy Spirit is to Guide the Believers:
1 Samuel 16:16
"Let our lord
command his servants here to search for someone who can play the harp. He will play when the
evil spirit from God comes upon you, and you will feel better."
GOD HAS AN EVIL SPIRIT?! Obviously
not, it's only metaphoric as mentioned above.
1 Samuel 18:10
"The next day an evil spirit
from God came forcefully upon Saul. He was prophesying in his house, while David
was playing the harp, as he usually did. Saul had a spear in his hand..." ANOTHER EVIL SPIRIT FROM GOD?! Again, it is only
metaphoric.
1 Samuel 19:9
"But an
evil spirit from the LORD came upon Saul as he was sitting in his house with his
spear in his hand. While David was playing the harp,..." ANOTHER EVIL SPIRIT
FROM GOD?!
1 Kings 22:23
"God sent LYING
SPIRITS to lie to people" Does GOD lie?!
RESPONSE:
Osama refers to the Holy Spirit guiding believers, but cites passages which speak of
evil spirits! The context of the passages clearly distinguish God’s Holy Spirit from
the evil spirit(s):
"Now the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the
LORD tormented him. And Saul's servants said to him, ‘Behold now, an evil spirit
from God is tormenting you. Let our lord now command your servants who are before you to
seek out a man who is skillful in playing the lyre, and when the evil spirit from God is
upon you, he will play it, and you will be well.’ So Saul said to his servants,
‘Provide for me a man who can play well and bring him to me.’ One of the young
men answered, ‘Behold, I have seen a son of Jesse the Bethlehemite, who is skillful
in playing, a man of valor, a man of war, prudent in speech, and a man of good presence,
and the LORD is with him.’ Therefore Saul sent messengers to Jesse and said,
"Send me David your son, who is with the sheep.’ And Jesse took a donkey laden
with bread and a skin of wine and a young goat and sent them by David his son to Saul. And
David came to Saul and entered his service. And Saul loved him greatly, and he became his
armor-bearer. And Saul sent to Jesse, saying, ‘Let David remain in my service, for he
has found favor in my sight.’ And whenever the evil spirit from God was upon Saul,
David took the lyre and played it with his hand. So Saul was refreshed and was well, and
the evil spirit departed from him." 1 Samuel 16:14-23
"Then a harmful spirit from the LORD came upon Saul, as he sat in his house
with his spear in his hand. And David was playing the lyre. And Saul sought to pin David
to the wall with the spear, but he eluded Saul, so that he struck the spear into the wall.
And David fled and escaped that night… Then Saul sent messengers to take David, and
when they saw the company of the prophets prophesying, and Samuel standing as head over
them, the Spirit of God came upon the messengers of Saul, and they also prophesied.
When it was told Saul, he sent other messengers, and they also prophesied. And Saul sent
messengers again the third time, and they also prophesied. Then he himself went to Ramah
and came to the great well that is in Secu. And he asked, ‘Where are Samuel and
David?’ And one said, ‘Behold, they are at Naioth in Ramah.’ And he went
there to Naioth in Ramah. And the Spirit of God came upon him also, and as he went he
prophesied until he came to Naioth in Ramah. And he too stripped off his clothes, and
he too prophesied before Samuel and lay naked all that day and all that night. Thus it is
said, ‘Is Saul also among the prophets?’" 1 Samuel 19:9-10, 20-24
How, in light of the above references, could Osama confuse the Holy Spirit with evil
spirits is truly a mystery.
My response:
Osama is not the one who is confused. I never said that the Holy Spirit is an
evil one. Throughout my entire article I've been talking about how it creates us and
how it is a Divine "tool" like the other tools that GOD
Almighty Created. It is obviously you who is having difficult time comprehending
anything here. The biblical verses that I mentioned above were more proofs about the
figurative
speech in the bible and how no one should take the liberty to deceive
others by inventing lies and taking words out of context when the bible is filled with
figurative and metaphoric language.
Anyway as always, I'll let the reader decide between you and me. I am here to win
the hearts and spread the Divine Truth of Islam; not to win silly arguments and
word-games.
He wrote:
Second, Osama is shocked that evil spirits come from God (Luke 2:52: GOD forgave Jesus' sins and was "charitable" with him). He must have forgotten the
following Quranic verses:
Thus have WE APPOINTED unto every prophet an adversary - devils of humankind and
jinn who inspire in one another plausible discourse through guile. If thy Lord willed,
they would not do so; so leave them alone with their devising; S. 6:112 ALLAH APPOINTS
DEVILS?!
"Seest thou not that WE HAVE SET Satans on against the unbelievers, to
incite them to fury?" S. 19:83 ALLAH SETS SATANS ON PEOPLE?!
If anyone withdraws himself from remembrance of the Most Gracious, We APPONT FOR HIM
A SATAN, to be an intimate companion (qareenun) to him. Such (Satans) really
hinder them from the Path, but they think that they are being guided aright! At length,
when (such a one) comes to Us, he says (to his evil companion): "Would that between
me and thee were the distance of East and West!" Ah! evil is the companion (indeed)!
S. 43:36-38 ALLAH APPOINTS A SATAN TO PEOPLE?!
The Quran teaches that satans and devils are from Allah????!!!!
Osama misleads his readers regarding 1 Kings 22 since it does not say that God lied.
Here is the context:
"And Micaiah said, ‘Therefore hear the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD
sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing beside him on his right hand
and on his left; and the LORD said, "Who will entice Ahab, that he may go up and fall
at Ramoth-gilead?" And one said one thing, and another said another. Then a spirit
came forward and stood before the LORD, saying, "I will entice him." And the
LORD said to him, "By what means?" And he said, "I will go out, and will
be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets." And he said, "You are
to entice him, and you shall succeed; go out and do so." Now therefore behold, the
LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets; the LORD has declared
disaster for you.’" 1 Kings 22:19-23
It wasn’t God who lied, but a spirit whom God used to entice the false prophets.
These biblical passages are teaching what should have been obvious even to Osama; that
evil spirits are also under God’s sovereign control and can only do what God permits
them to do. God can, and does, use evil spirits to accomplish his purpose:
"The LORD has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of
trouble." Proverbs 16:4
"In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the
purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,"
Ephesians 1:11
My response:
Again, it is more than obvious that I was talking about metaphoric and figurative speech in the
bible. I even linked the article where the verses were mentioned.
Ironically, because of your utter failure to respond to the irrefutable samples that I
provided about the metaphoric speech in the bible, you not only purposely avoided to
address them and interact with them in front of the reader, but very laughably went ahead
and unlinked my link so that the reader wouldn't see the article at all! Hilarious
indeed!
As the reader clearly sees, I am not afraid to link to any of the links you provide.
It is only fair and ethical to show the reader the other side's full arguments.
It is up to the reader to decide and not up to
you.
At any rate, in the light of all of the evidence that I provided above from both the
Noble Quran and the Bible, it is beyond doubt that the Holy Spirit is:
Allah Almighty also promised in several Divine Prophecies that He will show the Glorious Quran's Miracles to mankind. For example:
1- The root letters for "message" and all of its derivatives occur 513times throughout the Glorious Quran. Yet, the Prophets' and Messengers' actual names (Muhammad, Moses, Noah, Abraham, Lot etc....) were also all mentioned 513 times in the Glorious Quran. See detailed listing here.
Coincidence? See 1,000s of examples! [1]. (zip file).
2- Allah Almighty said that Prophet Noah lived for
950 years. Yet, all Praise and Glory are due to Allah Almighty Alone, the entire Noble Surah (chapter Noah) is exactly written in 950 Letters. You can thoroughly see the accurate count in the scanned images.
3- Allah Almighty in the Glorious Quran said that earth is: - Spherical: "egg-shaped" [1]. - Is rotating around itself. - Is moving in space in curvy orbits [2]. - Is traveling through the constantly expanding universe [3].
"When the sky disintegrates, and turns rose colored like paint (وردة كالدهان)." (The Noble Quran, 55:37) [2] [3]
As we also see from the picture, Noble Verse 55:37 is a Divine Promise (Allah promised to show mankind) that mankind will actually see this come to pass one day. NASA and other space agencies, by Allah Almighty's Will, have certainly fulfilled this Prophecy, because a natural rose wouldn't form when a "Heaven" or a Solar System or even an entire galaxy and its trillions of solar systems all blow up (explode). It is rather the look of it, and this is exactly what NASA confirms.
Quran: All Bibles are mostly of corrupt [1]قول (Quran 10:94 and 10s others discussed). See also the 39+ members of trinity. Jesus called every believer a Muslim in Luke 6:40.
"I cannot do anything on my own." (i.e., Jesus could not perform a single Miracle without GOD sending it down to him first!). I can not perform a single Miracle on my own!! I am totally POWERLESS without Allah Almighty!
John 5:31 "if I (Jesus) bear witness of myself, then I would be a liar!"
GOD didn't talk this way when He spoke to Moses. GOD's testimony alone is always sufficient! Jesus also bowed his face down to the ground, like we Muslims (Isaiah 56:5: Muslim is the future believers' name, and sons and daughters of GOD titles will be "no more"; ; Jesus called every believer a Muslim in
Luke 6:40) Muslims do everyday, and prayed to GOD Almighty.
(Quran's name for Jesus) is Iesu and Iesus in Latin and Greek for Jesus, and Eesa is also a Hebrew word that means doctor or healer; all of Jesus' Miracles were medical | Paul was a holy barfaliphor (ΜΠαρφαλιφωρ) | Research & Blog | 9/11 Israel-lie | Youtube | 
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