We can, but the issue is, it appears as if we have to follow the prayer times AT mecca for the varying sunrises and sunsets of the worlds. Allah is the lord of the sunrises and sunsets of the worlds, but perhaps he made us pray at THE sunrise and sunset AT mecca.

Not Mecca's time.  You follow the vertical time that you are on.  And today, with simple Google search, you find exactly when Prayer and Fasting times occur.

As to the Witness System, I already elaborated on it in great details above, akhi.

  
Colonizing Mars:

We've seen above the Glorious Quran's Prophecy about man will eventually penetrate space.  Today, man is speaking about colonizing planet Mars.  Certainly, the Prayer and Fasting times there would have to be estimated based on what the population reckons the times to be.

Think about it.  Allah Almighty told us that we will penetrate space, and we will also see all of His Miracles that testify to the Truth of the Glorious Quran's Divine claims:

https://www.answering-christianity.com/sci_prophecy.htm
https://www.answering-christianity.com/precise_prophecy_about_traveling_up_to_space_in_noble_quran.mp4 (By Sheikh Yusuf Estes)
https://www.answering-christianity.com/space_pressure_in_noble_quran.htm
https://www.answering-christianity.com/space_pressure_and_lack_of_oxygen.mp3
https://www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#links

Ok, so how will we then calculate/reckon Fasting and Praying on other planets?  It will have to be done through reasonable calculations based on either the sunrises and sets of those planets, or by calculating and setting fixed times.

Similarly, our North and South Poles' Prayer and Fasting time determination are done based on fixing certain times, usually based on the near by lands' sunrise and sunset cycles, and their vertical time zones.  Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, commanded the Muslims to make an estimate about the time of Prayer if they're not sure:

"...Thereupon he said, "No, but you must make an estimate of time and then offer Salat (Prayer).''..." (Source 1,2)

I hope this helps, Insha'Allah.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Question:

........
This claims that in some places on the globe there is no sunset except after many months. If you are to fast sunrise to sunset, this one would take 24 months and you would die.

They say this mistake was made because 7th century desert dwellers didn't know about the poles or Earth's roundness.

Also, what if you don't live on Earth, how do you fast?
  

Answer:

As'salamu Alaikum dear brother,

Here is my response to the points on Praying and Fasting if you live near the North or South Poles.  Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, commanded the Muslims to make an estimate about the time of Prayer if they're not sure:

"...Thereupon he said, "No, but you must make an estimate of time and then offer Salat (Prayer).''..." (Source 1,2)

This Hadith was given to me by brother Submit on this website's blog, may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him.

Also, here are some Quran-Facts about this topic:

1-  Allah Almighty Said that He is the GOD of the sunrises and sunsets (plural for both).  This means there isn't just one fixed sunrise and sunset point on earth or for earth.  No, there are Mashaariq (sunrises) and Maghaarib (sunsets):

[070:040] Now I do call to witness the Lord of all points in the East المشارق and the West المغارب that We can certainly-

‏70:40 فلا اقسم برب المشارق والمغارب انا لقادرون

[037:005] Lord of the heavens and of the earth and all between them, and Lord of every point at the rising of the sun! المشارق

‏37:5 رب السماوات والارض ومابينهما ورب المشارق

Please visit:

  
There are multiple Miracles in this Noble Verse 37:5:

(a)-  Allah Almighty is the LORD of every sunrise point in the entire Universe.

(b)-  This means that every plant has sunrises points.

(c)-  All plants to humans are spherical.  Our moon is spherical.  Our planets that our ancient world knew such as VENUS and others were known to be spherical.

(d)-  The sunrise points on those spherical planets clearly indicate that Allah Almighty knew about SUNRISES AND SUNSETS on spherical planets in the Universe.

(e)-  Earth was mentioned in this Noble Verse.  This means that the SUNRISE POINTS also include the ones on earth, like all of those on all of the SPHERICAL PLANETS.

(f)-  Allah Almighty clearly mentioned in other Noble Verses that the earth is:

1-  Spherical
2-  Is traveling in space.
3-  Is rotating around itself.
4-  Is speeding in space.

Please visit: https://www.answering-christianity.com/egg-shaped_earth.htm.

  
(g)-  Did you know that the Glorious Quran declares that the earth is:

  
 

2-  Allah Almighty Said that whoever WITNESSES the Month of Ramadan, then let him fast It:

[002:185]  Ramadan is the month during which the Quran was revealed, providing guidance for the people, clear teachings, and the statute book. Those of you who witness this month shall fast therein. Those who are ill or traveling may substitute the same number of other days. GOD wishes for you convenience, not hardship, that you may fulfill your obligations, and to glorify GOD for guiding you, and to express your appreciation.

So if the Holy Month is Witnessed by a Muslim Community, then all of the Muslims should Fast.

3-  Allah Almighty Said that when we're in doubt about the right direction, wherever we set our faces for Prayer, we'll find Allah Almighty.

[002:115] To God belongeth the east المشرق and the west المغرب; therefore whithersoever ye turn your selves to pray, there is the face of God; for God is omnipresent and omniscient.

‏2:115 ولله المشرق والمغرب فاينما تولوا فثم وجه الله ان الله واسع عليم

Even in the singular East and West, the Noble Verse is clearly speaking about the EASTS AND WESTS in Its Context, since it's talking about a random EAST AND WEST.  The proof for this is the "al" (the) definite article, which in this context clearly means that whichever EAST and WEST the Muslim may be in, in that EAST and that WEST he will still find the Face of Allah Almighty.  The "al" (the) definite article here in this context is referring to that particular point that the Muslim may be in.  It's like saying:

"There are stores.  Mclinkin94 is in a store.  The store that Mclinkin94 may be in (no one knows where Mclinkin94 is) is still acceptable."  Here "the store" could be any of the stores, indicating that all of the stores are equally the same; that regardless of which store brother Mclinkin94 may be in, that store would still be ok.

Given all of this, it clearly appears to me that the Muslim Community in such places where sunrise and sunset take months can and should do one of the following:

1-  Set their time on the time of the nearest land that gets proper sunrise and sunset.

2-  Set their own time and follow the best estimation for both Prayer and Fasting times.

3-  Follow Mecca's time, since it's the Original Source.

4-  And in any case, they should pray toward Mecca.

And Allah Almighty Knows best.  But one fact should be known is that the Holy Quran did mention the sunrises and sunsets on earth.  And Allah Almighty did speak about visually witnessing the Month of Ramadan for fasting.  So while Allah Almighty may not have directly spoken about the North and South Poles on earth, but the Glorious Quran didn't negate their existence either.  After Allah Almighty did clearly and indisputably say about earth that it is:

1-  Spherical
2-  Is traveling in space.
3-  Is rotating around itself.
4-  Is speeding in space.

Please visit: https://www.answering-christianity.com/egg-shaped_earth.htm.

Also the moon's orbit around earth is S-Shaped: https://www.answering-christianity.com/moon_orbit_miracle.htm. 

  
  
Advise to all Muslims:

Please do not expect the Glorious Quran to mention everything about geology or astronomy.  The Holy Quran isn't a science book.  However, what you can and should and must expect from the Holy Book is for It to not negate or clash with or contradict an established Scientific fact.  That you would be correct on pursuing.  But to expect the Holy Quran to mention the North and South poles just wouldn't be fair nor right.  The points that I mentioned above clearly demonstrate that Allah Almighty's claims about earth never negated nor are they in any contradiction with the fact that earth has North and South Poles, and that the days and nights do take much longer in those places.

The Holy Quran is crystal clear about the earth having SUNRISES and SUNSETS (plural for both).  To those who believed that earth was flat, and had one fixed point for sunrise and one fixed point for sunset, this statement from Allah Almighty is a contradiction to their false beliefs.

The doomed-to-Hell Islam-hating infidels have nothing on Islam.  All Praise and Thanks and Glory are due to Allah Almighty Alone.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah
  

Round 2:

Question:

Thank you brother Osama :) But there still is an issue:

You could also raise the issue that perhaps the author of the Quran did not know that on the poles sunrise to sunset could last 6+ months and therefore didn't mention it. Although it is true that you could sync the times in the North pole and South pole to match prayer times of a close city, the Quran did not say what we are supposed to do if sunrise to sunset lasts entire months. This makes it seem like the author of the Quran was unaware of such a phenomena of sunrise to sunset taking entire months.

That means if we are to observe Ramadan in the poles, we would die. That means we don't have to pray 5 times a day in the poles?

Answer:

As'salamu Alaikum dear brother,

Yes, the Holy Quran does say that we can sync up with the nearest location that has the proper day and night cycles for Prayer and Fasting Timings.  Here is what the Holy Quran Says:

1-  Muslims are one Ummah (امة nation):

[003:110] Ye are the best of peoples امة, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in God. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors.

[002:143] Thus, have We made of you an Ummat امة justly balanced, that ye might be witnesses over the nations, and the Apostle a witness over yourselves; and We appointed the Qibla to which thou wast used, only to test those who followed the Apostle from those who would turn on their heels (From the Faith). Indeed it was (A change) momentous, except to those guided by God. And never would God Make your faith of no effect. For God is to all people Most surely full of kindness, Most Merciful.

[021:092] Verily, this brotherhood امتكم of yours is a single brotherhood امة, and I am your Lord and Cherisher: therefore serve Me (and no other).

2-  All land belongs to Allah Almighty.  And if a Muslim is living in a land that is causing him much fitnah (trials, unstable situations), then the Muslim is required to seek better solutions when he could:

[004:097] There are those who have wrought a wrong upon themselves. The angels (of death), would take possession of their souls and ask, "What was wrong with you?" They would answer, "We were too weak and oppressed in the land!" The angels will say, "Wasn't the land of Allah vast and spacious enough, so you could emigrate (and seek refuge) elsewhere?" Such ones would have an abode in hell. What a despicable destination!

[004:098] Except for the men, women and children who are weak and oppressed! They are unable to muster the means (to migrate), and (therefore) find no way out.

Now, while this Noble Verse is speaking about the Muslims who were suffering oppression from the disbelievers, but it would certainly apply today as follows:

1-  Either physically migrate from the land that doesn't have proper cycles of days and nights.

2-  Or set your time (migrate your time) to match a Muslim city or country that has the proper timing.  I personally vote for going with the nearest geographical city or country that has the normal day and night cycles, preferably directly south or north of you, which is on the same vertical time zone and line as you (see image below for why).  But other Muslims also say go with Mecca's timing.  Either way is perfectly fine.

3-  Noble Verse 4:98 clearly gives you the permission to stay in the land that doesn't have proper day and night cycles, especially when our Muslim countries are mostly corrupt today (this is also an Islamic End of Time Prophecy).  So the person would need to set their Prayer and Fasting times to a Muslim city that does have the proper times, and insha'Allah everything will be fine.

And to the reader, please visit my previous post, above, to see the Glorious Quran's Scientific Miracles that are directly related to this topic:

https://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,1379.msg5282.html#msg5282

And last and not least, I invite the reader to visit the following link to see the Overwhelming Scientific Miracles in the Glorious Quran in:

1-  STUNNING Numerical Miracles.
2-  Embryology.
3-  Biology.
4-  Astronomy.
5-  Geology.
6-  Mathematics
7-  Archeology.
8-  Prophecies.

Please visit: www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#links

And again, Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, commanded the Muslims to make an estimate about the time of Prayer if they're not sure:

"...Thereupon he said, "No, but you must make an estimate of time and then offer Salat (Prayer).''..." (Source 1,2)

Time on Earth is determined vertically:
  
Another point worth mentioning is that the time on earth, as we know it, is determined vertically.  This means that whether you're all the way north or all the way south, if you're on the same vertical time line, then time will be the same for you.  This is why I said above that it's best then to set your Prayer and Fasting Times on the time of the city that is directly south or north of you, and is on the same vertical time zone and line as you:
  

(click to enlarge)
  
  
Advise to all Muslims:
  
Like I said in my previous post, please do not expect the Glorious Quran to mention everything about geology or astronomy.  The Holy Quran isn't a science book.  However, what you can and should and must expect from the Holy Book is for It to not negate or clash with or contradict an established Scientific fact.  That you would be correct on pursuing.  But to expect the Holy Quran to mention the North and South poles just wouldn't be fair nor right.  The points that I mentioned above, in this post and in the previous one, clearly demonstrate that Allah Almighty's claims about earth never negated nor are they in any contradiction with the fact that earth has North and South Poles, and that the days and nights do take much longer in those places.

The Holy Quran is crystal clear about the earth being Spherical, and having SUNRISES and SUNSETS (plural for both).  Allah Almighty Said about the earth that is:

1-  Spherical
2-  Is traveling in space.
3-  Is rotating around itself.
4-  Is speeding in space.

Please visit: https://www.answering-christianity.com/egg-shaped_earth.htm.

Also the moon's orbit around earth is S-Shaped: https://www.answering-christianity.com/moon_orbit_miracle.htm.

To those who believed that earth was flat, and had one fixed point for sunrise and one fixed point for sunset, this statement from Allah Almighty is a contradiction to their false beliefs.

The doomed-to-Hell Islam-hating infidels have nothing on Islam.  All Praise and Thanks and Glory are due to Allah Almighty Alone.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah
  

Round 3:

Question

Thank you brother Osama!

I'm having an issue with this point. It appears as if the verses you posted were talking about physically migrating rather than migrating your time. Is there any indication that it refers to migrating the time? I don't see it yet, maybe it is the Arabic.

This would be a convincing point if it refers to migrating the time

Answer:

As'salamu Alaikum dear brother Mclinkin94,

"Migrating your time" was probably a bad choice of words from me, because you'd be on the same vertical time line as any city that has normal day and night cycles, as I already explained.  So apologies for this confusing term.  What I meant by it was to adjust yourself to the time of the nearest city that is on your same vertical timeline and has normal day and night cycles.  You wouldn't need to migrate.  You'll just have to adjust yourself to the nearest city to you, either north or south of you, and set your "days" and "nights" according to them, and work with their timings. 

And by the way, in those countries, they do exactly that.  When they have six months of night or day, for example, they wouldn't have to worry about a thing, since they have already adjusted themselves to the normal cycles' hours, and work with the rest of the country's times.  So if your job is 8:00 am to 5:00 pm Monday thru Friday, then you would adjust yourself to work during those hours regardless whether it is night or day at where you live.  So for Prayer and Fasting, you should do the same.

And I repeat my advise to you and to all Muslims:

Advise to all Muslims:
  
Please do not expect the Glorious Quran to mention everything about geology or astronomy.  The Holy Quran isn't a science book.  However, what you can and should and must expect from the Holy Book is for It to not negate or clash with or contradict an established Scientific fact.  That you would be correct on pursuing.  But to expect the Holy Quran to mention the North and South poles just wouldn't be fair nor right.  The points that I mentioned above clearly demonstrate that Allah Almighty's claims about earth never negated nor are they in any contradiction with the fact that earth has North and South Poles, and that the days and nights do take much longer in those places.

The Holy Quran is crystal clear about the earth having SUNRISES and SUNSETS (plural for both).  To those who believed that earth was flat, and had one fixed point for sunrise and one fixed point for sunset, this statement from Allah Almighty is a contradiction to their false beliefs.

The doomed-to-Hell Islam-hating infidels have nothing on Islam.  All Praise and Thanks and Glory are due to Allah Almighty Alone.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah
  

Round 4:

Question:

But, this then leads to the initial problem that the Quran did not state what to do when sunrise/sunset lasts 6 months. In a sense, the skeptic could rightfully argue that this implies that the author was unaware of such an event.

My personal counter-argument is that the Quran says that you are supposed to wash your hands. But, what if you don't have hands? Does it mean that the Author of the Quran didn't think you can live without your hands. Its obvious what you are supposed to do.  :)

But, it would be more beneficial to deal with the skeptics if we have a clear Quranic verse that describes what to do in an event of prolonged sunrise/sunsett.

Perhaps the Quran does refer to it. Do you know of any verses?

Sorry for this trouble.

Answer #1:

As'salamu Alaikum dear brother,

In Islam, we have the Witness Law for both Prayers and Fasting.  This is where we follow the determined time even if we ourselves can't spot it in the sky due to cloudy days or different weathers.  We'd still follow the exact times if other Muslims witnessed.  Here are two main points that you raise and my responses to them, akhi:

Your first main point:  You are forcing the rule that the Holy Quran should've mentioned the North and South Poles. 

My response:  I have already thoroughly demonstrated above how Allah Almighty Said that the earth is Spherical, is traveling in space, is rotating around its own axle, and does have many Sunrise and Sunset points.  So the North and South Poles are indirectly mentioned.

Furthermore, Allah Almighty did Say that He has created us a Muslim nation in the MIDDLE to be Winesses over all of mankind:

‏2:143 وكذلك جعلناكم امة وسطا لتكونوا شهداء على الناس ويكون الرسول عليكم شهيدا وماجعلنا القبلة التي كنت عليهاالا لنعلم من يتبع الرسول ممن ينقلب على عقبيه وان كانت لكبيرة الا على الذين هدى الله وماكان الله ليضيع ايمانكم ان الله بالناس لرؤوف رحيم
 
Pickthall:
[002:143] Thus We have appointed you a middle وسطا  nation, that ye may be witnesses against mankind, and that the messenger may be a witness against you. And We appointed the qiblah which ye formerly observed only that We might know him who followeth the messenger, from him who turneth on his heels. In truth it was a hard (test) save for those whom Allah guided. But it was not Allah's purpose that your faith should be in vain, for Allah is Full of Pity, Merciful toward mankind.
  
  
Muslims Geographically today are in the Middle:

Muslims today are indeed geographically in the Middle of the Earth!  We are neither concentrated North nor South.  We are concentrated in the Middle.  Could this Noble Verse be also referring to the North and South Poles issues that you brought up?  Only Allah Almighty Knows.  But the Holy Quran is crystal clear about us being a NATION IN THE MIDDLE to be Witnesses on mankind.  So could we apply this Noble Verse to the exceptional situations in the North and South Poles?

I say yes.  After all, the Holy Quran is a Scientific Miracle, and is Divine from Allah Almighty.  So this shouldn't be something odd or off.
  
  
Think this is just too Ridiculous and Impossible?

1-  Did not Allah Almighty also Say that the Dead Sea area is the lowest land on earth?  And this had been scientifically proven to be STUNNINGLY TRUE!

Visit: https://www.answering-christianity.com/lowest_land_miracle.htm

2-  Did not Allah Almighty make ample Geographically and other Scientifically Miraculous Statements in the Holy Quran that were confirmed to be true today?  Please visit:

https://www.answering-christianity.com/detailed_meanings_of_scientific_words_in_verses.htm

https://www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#links
  
  
So why can't it be a fulfilled Divine Prophecy then?

So why can't Noble Verse 2:143 be another fulfilled Divine Prophecy and Miracle then?  It is:

1-  A Prophecy because we Muslims are indeed today concentrated in the Middle of the Earth.

2-  A Miracle, because it is another True Statement from the Divine Book, the Holy Quran.

Please visit: https://www.answering-christianity.com/ac3.htm#prophecies

I am telling you brother, the doomed-to-Hell infidels have nothing on Islam.

  
  
Your second main point:  You are forcing the rule that if one doesn't for example have daylight then he/she shouldn't pray and fast according to the Holy Quran then, since they can't determine the times through the day and night cycles.

My response:  Again, we have the Witness Rule in Islam.  As I already demonstrated from the Holy Quran that all land belongs to Allah Almighty.  So you're already part of the nearby land that already has the normal day and night cycles, and is on the same vertical timeline and zone as you are.  So here, the Witness Rule would apply.

And I again repeat my advise to you and to all Muslims:


Advise to all Muslims:
  
Like I said in my previous post, please do not expect the Glorious Quran to mention everything about geology or astronomy.  The Holy Quran isn't a science book.  However, what you can and should and must expect from the Holy Book is for It to not negate or clash with or contradict an established Scientific fact.  That you would be correct on pursuing.  But to expect the Holy Quran to mention the North and South poles just wouldn't be fair nor right.  The points that I mentioned above, in this post and in the previous one, clearly demonstrate that Allah Almighty's claims about earth never negated nor are they in any contradiction with the fact that earth has North and South Poles, and that the days and nights do take much longer in those places.

The Holy Quran is crystal clear about the earth being Spherical, and having SUNRISES and SUNSETS (plural for both).  Allah Almighty Said about the earth that is:

1-  Spherical
2-  Is traveling in space.
3-  Is rotating around itself.
4-  Is speeding in space.

Please visit:

www.answering-christianity.com/egg-shaped_earth.htm
The sunsetless North Pole miracle in the Glorious Quran.

Also the moon's orbit around earth is S-Shaped: www.answering-christianity.com/moon_orbit_miracle.htm.

To those who believed that earth was flat, and had one fixed point for sunrise and one fixed point for sunset, this statement from Allah Almighty is a contradiction to their false beliefs.

The doomed-to-Hell Islam-hating infidels have nothing on Islam.  All Praise and Thanks and Glory are due to Allah Almighty Alone.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Answer #2:

As'salamu Alaikum dear brothers and sisters,

To continue with my last reply, I would like to ask you to visit the following links and watch the videos of the sun rises and sets in both the North and South Pole areas:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Midnight+Sun+north&sm=12

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Midnight+Sun+south+pole&sm=3

The sun does rise and set in both the North and South Poles regularly and daily.  It doesn't sit still in one fixed position in the sky for months.  No, it regularly moves, and it regularly rises and sets.  So Muslims living in such areas can easily adjust to the sunrise and sunset times and determine their Prayer and Fasting times, especially when they use the regular times of the nearest city that is on the same Vertical Timeline as them, and has our normal day and night cycles.

Please visit my reply above for ample more details.  So there is no paradox here.  It's only the anti-Islamics who are spiritually lost and are desperate to find anything on Islam.  But as everyone sees, the Holy Quran is a Divine Miracle, and the Holy Quran contains ample and Overwhelming Scientific Miracles in It.  Please visit:

www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#links

Take care,
Osama Abdallah
  

Round 5:

Question:

......Can you please explain more about this witness law? The Quranic verse says in  "Those of you who witness this month shall fast therein" so it is referring to those who witnessed it. This somewhat alludes to the point that if you witness the month you fast and that those who haven't witnessed wouldn't fast......

Answer:

As'salamu Alaikum dear brother Mclinkin94,

The witness Rule or Law is very simple.  If a Muslim community, or even a small group or even a single genuine Muslim, witnesses the start of Prayer or start of the Holy Month of Ramadan, then everyone must follow thru even if the weather is bad and time couldn't be easily determined.  This also applies with best estimations by the religious leaders of the community, especially under bad weather conditions where the sun and daylight aren't clear at all.  So once the time is determined, whether by actual Witness or an Estimation, then every Muslim must follow thru.  So you can use that Rule if you're living in lands that don't have proper day and night cycles with other cities that have normal day and night cycles, and are directly north or south of you on the same vertical timeline.

Again, Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, commanded the Muslims to make an estimate about the time of Prayer if they're not sure:

"...Thereupon he said, "No, but you must make an estimate of time and then offer Salat (Prayer).''..." (Source 1,2)

Question:

I do agree with your response that the Quran has alluded to those phenomenon, but the skeptic's argument was not that the Quran was unaware of the North/South pole, it was that the Quran was unaware of the different sunrise and sunset times in those poles taking an entire months and therefore did not mention what to do if you are living in such an location.

Answer:

Not true at all, akhi.  The sun and the moon rise and set every single day on the North and South poles everyday in the year.  The only difference is that the sky is either always bright or always dark for months long.  But you do clearly see the sun and the moon (depending whether it is bright or dark) rise and set every single day as the Youtube links that I gave above clearly demonstrate.  So the same 24 hours that you and I pass through during our days and nights, are the same 24 hours that they also pass through.  They do have AM and PM times.  They do have sun rises and sun sets, and moon rises and moon sets.  They do have cycles.  Why not use those?  After all, Allah Almighty is the "LORD of all of the SUNRISES and SUNSETS" [1] on earth, as He the Almighty Said in the Holy Quran, as I've shown in the posts above.  And if even if we didn't want to use the sun and moon rises and sets in our current lands, we could always revert back to using the nearest city's times, which would be the same times as you'd be using if you were in either the North or South Poles anyway.

If I were living in such lands, I would use the Prayer and Fasting Times of the nearest city that is on the same Vertical Timeline as my city is on.  This way, I would true to the Holy Quran in every way.  After all, all land is one, and it belongs to Allah Almighty as I also clearly demonstrated from the Holy Quran in the previous posts.  So my land would be nothing but an extension of the land and is part of the land.  I would use the Witness Law and apply it.  Islam did cover it.

And I again repeat my advise to you, dear brother, and to all Muslims:
  
  
Advise to all Muslims:
  
Like I said in my previous post, please do not expect the Glorious Quran to mention everything about geology or astronomy.  The Holy Quran isn't a science book.  However, what you can and should and must expect from the Holy Book is for It to not negate or clash with or contradict an established Scientific fact.  That you would be correct on pursuing.  But to expect the Holy Quran to mention the North and South poles just wouldn't be fair nor right.  The points that I mentioned above, in this post and in the previous one, clearly demonstrate that Allah Almighty's claims about earth never negated nor are they in any contradiction with the fact that earth has North and South Poles, and that the days and nights do take much longer in those places.

The Holy Quran is crystal clear about the earth being Spherical, and having SUNRISES and SUNSETS (plural for both).  Allah Almighty Said about the earth that is:

1-  Spherical
2-  Is traveling in space.
3-  Is rotating around itself.
4-  Is speeding in space.

Please visit:

www.answering-christianity.com/egg-shaped_earth.htm
The sunsetless North Pole miracle in the Glorious Quran.

Also the moon's orbit around earth is S-Shaped: www.answering-christianity.com/moon_orbit_miracle.htm. 

  
  
To those who believed that earth was flat, and had one fixed point for sunrise and one fixed point for sunset, this statement from Allah Almighty is a contradiction to their false beliefs.

The doomed-to-Hell Islam-hating infidels have nothing on Islam.  All Praise and Thanks and Glory are due to Allah Almighty Alone.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah
  

Round 6:

Question:

Asalumu Alaikum brother Osama. Thank you very much for your responses!

Is there any chance that you could explain the Quranic exegesis for this point? I don't see the Quran giving this witness rule, it appears that the Quran says if any of us witness it then we should fast it rather then the entirety of Muslims.

As far as the Muslims being witnesses for all nations, I think these verses are referring to muslims being witnesses on the day of resurrection rather than witnessing when Ramadan starts.

Answer:

Wa Alaikum As'salam dear brother Mclinkin94,

The Witness system is deeply rooted in Islam, in both the Glorious Quran and the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him.  Here are some of the Noble Verses:

[002:204] Among people are the likes of the ones whose suave talk about this world charms and astounds you. He (professes good intentions and) invokes Allah as the witness over what exists in his heart. But (in reality) he is the most dogged and quarrelsome opponent.

[002:282] Oh you who believe! When you contract a debt for a fixed term, reduce it to writing. Let a scribe record the terms in a fair manner. The scribe whom Allah has taught to write should not refuse to write. He should record (the transaction). The one who incurs the debt should spell out the terms. He should fear Allah and not omit anything. If the borrower lacks understanding, or is feeble (minded), or is otherwise unable to dictate, then his guardian should dictate (the conditions of the loan) in a fair manner. Call upon two of your men to act as witnesses (to the contract). Should two men not be available (to act as witnesses), then take one man and two women _ if one of them errs, the other would remind her (women back then were not specialized in financial and mathematical transactions.  Men were far more experienced and superior in knowledge) _ that are acceptable to you as witnesses. The witnesses should not refuse if called upon to testify. Do not neglect to write down (all) the (specific) terms (and provisions) of the contract, be they small or big. That, according to Allah is a more reliable evidence, and more likely to dispel doubts (and suspicions). You bear no sin if you fail to record the on-the-spot exchange of goods for cash, that goes on between you (all the time). But, take witnesses when you enter into a commercial contract. Do not harass or harm the scribe or the witnesses. It would be wicked and immoral for you to do so. Fear Allah! (Of course) Allah teaches you (righteousness). Allah has full knowledge of every single thing!

[003:053] "Our Lord, we believe in that which You have revealed, and we follow the messenger. So enroll us among those who bear witness (to the truth)."

[005:107] Later, if it comes to light that the two witnesses merit (the suspicion of) sin, then let two others from among the rightful heirs (of the deceased) take the place of the earlier witnesses. Let them swear by Allah (saying), "Our testimony is truer and more valid than their testimony, and we do not stray beyond the bounds (of truth). Else, we would be the evil doers."

[006:150] Say, "Present your witnesses! Could anyone testify that it is Allah Who has forbidden (all) this?" Even if they do testify (falsely), don't you bear witness with them. Do not follow the whims and wishes of those who reject Our revelations _ those who do not believe in the life-to-come, and deem others as being equal to their Lord.

(I will provide more Noble Verses.  I put those together quickly.  I will elaborate on this point more by updating this post with move Noble Verses and point, Insha'Allah)

There are many other Noble Verses that speak about producing genuine Witness and relying on genuine Witness.  If a Muslim or a community of Muslims Witnesses the time for Prayer or Fasting, then it becomes obligatory upon the others to follow.
  

Question:

Moon rise and moon set wouldn't be considered a sunrise/sunset for 6 months as per Quran. It is not about whether you would be able to tell times at the poles :), we could already do that with our modern day time-keeping. Perhaps Allah knew that by going to the north/south pole and living there we would need technology to get there and having such technology would come with time-keeping and that Muslims could easily adapt by common sense therefore there is no reason to mention this in the Quran and confuse 7th century people about places where sunrise/sunset lasts 6 months. Plus this also serves as a test of faith for Muslims.

Answer:

Have you read the new points and the Noble Verse that I added to this reply:

https://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,1379.msg5282.html#msg5282

Your points are thoroughly responded to there.  The so many different SUNRISES and SUNSETS that Allah Almighty has Created in the Universe, and over all of the planets including our planet earth, since it was mentioned in the same Noble Verse, clearly prove that you are to work with the Sunrise and Sunset that is given to you.  Prayer and Fasting are obligatory upon all Muslims.  So Muslims would have to figure out the times for Praying and Fasting no mater which SUNRISE and SUNSET points they may be in.

So as to your quote above "Moon rise and moon set wouldn't be considered a sunrise/sunset for 6 months as per Quran", that is not true at all.  The Holy Quran did say that this is a different sunrise and sunset.  Therefore, you would have to figure out your times during the day:

1-  When is your morning (Fajr, Subh).
2-  When is noon (Thuhur).
3-  When is your Asr (after noon or midday).
4-  When is your maghrib (evening).
5-  When is your Isha (night).

The Fajr and Subh, Thuhur, Asr, Maghrib and Isha are all Islamic time-points for Prayer, and also for determining Fasting.  So if you live in a land that has a different type of SUNRISE and SUNSET, then you'll have to figure out those times based on the daily rises and settings of that land, whether it is from the sun or the moon.
  

Question:

But with all of that aside, the issue is at the poles there aren't defined sunrises and sunsets or else you would be fasting for an entire 6 months or waiting 6 months to pray the Fajr prayer. A moon rise does not fit the definition of a Quranic sunrise

Answer:

I already answered this above. 
  
  
  

OPEN CHALLENGE TO ALL:
  
Building Human Colonies on Mars, and the Sunrise and Sunset Issues there:

Let me ask you and ask every Muslim and skeptic this question:  Since we today could live to see the day where humans will establish a colony on planet Mars, then could you honestly sit here brother Mclinkin94 and say that the Noble Verses that spoke about Allah Almighty is the LORD OF ALL OF THE SUNRISES AND SUNSETS on all of the planets in the Universe, and all of the points on earth, wouldn't apply to life on Mars?

In other words, could not the humans there now figure out the proper times for Fasting and Prayer on Mars using the day and night cycles there, and to the best of their calculations and estimations?  Did not Allah Almighty also Say the following Noble Verses:

[010:005] He is the One who rendered the sun radiant, and the moon a light, and He designed its phases that you may learn to count the years and to calculate. GOD did not create all this, except for a specific purpose. He explains the revelations for people who know.

[017:012] We rendered the night and the day two signs. We made the night dark, and the day lighted, that you may seek provisions from your Lord therein. This also establishes for you a timing system, and the means of calculation. We thus explain everything in detail.

So why can't we calculate the times for Fasting and Prayers when it is difficult for us to do it with normal Day and Night Cycles?  Please visit:

https://www.answering-christianity.com/lunar_calendar_miracle.htm
https://www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#links

  
  
Prophecy of Traveling to Space:
  
Furthermore, please visit the following links about future space travel:

https://www.answering-christianity.com/precise_prophecy_about_traveling_up_to_space_in_noble_quran.mp4 (By Sheikh Yusuf Estes)
https://www.answering-christianity.com/sci_prophecy.htm
https://www.answering-christianity.com/space_pressure_in_noble_quran.htm
https://www.answering-christianity.com/space_pressure_and_lack_of_oxygen.mp3
https://www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#links
  

Noble Verse(s) 55:33

Yusuf Ali: [055:033]  O ye assembly of Jinns and men! If it be ye can pass beyond the zones of the heavens and the earth, pass ye! not without authority shall ye be able to pass! Arabic (Read from right to left.  Also, all png image files: [1] [2]): ‏55:33 يامعشر الجن والانس ان استطعتم ان تنفذوا من اقطار السماوات والارض فانفذوا لاتنفذون الا بسلطان

So if mankind creates colonies on Mars, then how would they determine the timings for Praying and Fasting?  Allah Almighty answered it.  He Said that He designed the phases of the sun and the moon for us to help us with our time and day calculations:

[010:005] He is the One who rendered the sun radiant, and the moon a light, and He designed its phases that you may learn to count the years and to calculate. GOD did not create all this, except for a specific purpose. He explains the revelations for people who know.

[017:012] We rendered the night and the day two signs. We made the night dark, and the day lighted, that you may seek provisions from your Lord therein. This also establishes for you a timing system, and the means of calculation. We thus explain everything in detail.

So why can't we calculate the times for Fasting and Prayers when it is difficult for us to do it with normal Day and Night Cycles?  Again, please visit:

https://www.answering-christianity.com/lunar_calendar_miracle.htm
https://www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#links

I would like to renew my reminder to you and to all of the Muslims:
  
  

Advise to all Muslims:
  
Like I said in my previous post, please do not expect the Glorious Quran to mention everything about geology or astronomy.  The Holy Quran isn't a science book.  However, what you can and should and must expect from the Holy Book is for It to not negate or clash with or contradict an established Scientific fact.  That you would be correct on pursuing.  But to expect the Holy Quran to mention the North and South poles just wouldn't be fair nor right.  The points that I mentioned above, in this post and in the previous one, clearly demonstrate that Allah Almighty's claims about earth never negated nor are they in any contradiction with the fact that earth has North and South Poles, and that the days and nights do take much longer in those places.

The Holy Quran is crystal clear about the earth being Spherical, and having SUNRISES and SUNSETS (plural for both).  Allah Almighty Said about the earth that is:

1-  Spherical
2-  Is traveling in space.
3-  Is rotating around itself.
4-  Is speeding in space.

Please visit:

www.answering-christianity.com/egg-shaped_earth.htm
The sunsetless North Pole miracle in the Glorious Quran.

Also the moon's orbit around earth is S-Shaped: https://www.answering-christianity.com/moon_orbit_miracle.htm. 

  

To those who believed that earth was flat, and had one fixed point for sunrise and one fixed point for sunset, this statement from Allah Almighty is a contradiction to their false beliefs.

The doomed-to-Hell Islam-hating infidels have nothing on Islam.  All Praise and Thanks and Glory are due to Allah Almighty Alone.  Please visit:

https://www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#links
https://www.answering-christianity.com/ac.htm
  
Take care,
Osama Abdallah

  
Answer #2:

As'salamu Alaikum everyone,

The following link on Youtube will demonstrate the earth's rotation around the sun, and the four seasons, and the angles of the earth, and how the sun's rays are distributed on earth, and how much light both the North and South poles get during the year, and at which times of the year:

Mechanism of the Seasons.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

We can, but the issue is, it appears as if we have to follow the prayer times AT mecca for the varying sunrises and sunsets of the worlds. Allah is the lord of the sunrises and sunsets of the worlds, but perhaps he made us pray at THE sunrise and sunset AT mecca.

Not Mecca's time.  You follow the vertical time that you are on.  And today, with simple Google search, you find exactly when Prayer and Fasting times occur.

As to the Witness System, I already elaborated on it in great details above, akhi.

  
Colonizing Mars:

We've seen above the Glorious Quran's Prophecy about man will eventually penetrate space.  Today, man is speaking about colonizing planet Mars.  Certainly, the Prayer and Fasting times there would have to be estimated based on what the population reckons the times to be.

Think about it.  Allah Almighty told us that we will penetrate space, and we will also see all of His Miracles that testify to the Truth of the Glorious Quran's Divine claims:

https://www.answering-christianity.com/sci_prophecy.htm
https://www.answering-christianity.com/precise_prophecy_about_traveling_up_to_space_in_noble_quran.mp4 (By Sheikh Yusuf Estes)
https://www.answering-christianity.com/space_pressure_in_noble_quran.htm
https://www.answering-christianity.com/space_pressure_and_lack_of_oxygen.mp3
https://www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#links

Ok, so how will we then calculate/reckon Fasting and Praying on other planets?  It will have to be done through reasonable calculations based on either the sunrises and sets of those planets, or by calculating and setting fixed times.

Similarly, our North and South Poles' Prayer and Fasting time determination are done based on fixing certain times, usually based on the near by lands' sunrise and sunset cycles, and their vertical time zones.

I hope this helps, Insha'Allah.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

He saw the Aurora lights:

Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, saw the aurora lights covering the horizons of space above the earth when he was taken up to Heaven:

Narrated Abdullah: "Regarding the Verse: “Indeed he (Muhammad) did see. Of the Signs of his Lord, The Greatest!” (Quran 53.18) That the Prophet had seen a green carpet spread all over the horizon of the sky." (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 54, Number 456)
  

Was Dhil Qarnayn an idol-worshiping pagan?

Only said for the sun-up:

Allah Almighty did not say that He made "no cover" for them from it for the sunset.  He said it for the sun-up only, which further proves that indeed the sun being always up, in Noble Verse 18:90 below, is referring to a geographical area in the North, since so much geographical proofs, and 1000-year old maps below, also point to that location as well.
  

"Until he reached near حتى اذا بلغ where the sun is up مطلع الشمس, he found it above وجدها تطلع على people قوم whom We made no cover for them from it لم نجعل لهم من دونها ستر.  (The Noble Quran, 18:90)"  

"We made no cover...." was never mentioned for sunset.  Only to "where the sun is up...." مطلع الشمس in Noble Verse 18:90, which further supports that "We made no cover...." is indeed talking about the Northern territories near the North Pole.  See ample pictures of the sun never sets at the North Pole.  See below.

Remember that they are located near where the sun never sets.  In the north, no shade was made from it for them.  It is almost always shining on them: لم نجعل لهم من دونها ستر.  "We made no cover for them from it" (18:90).  In other words, it never sets.  Night almost never comes:

(Click to play clip)

Reached all the way north:

Late Dr. Mustafa Mahmoud, may Allah Almighty rest his soul and grant him Paradise, - Ameen, - gave old Islamic maps (video) that date 1000+ old that estimate that Dhil Qarnayn reached all the way north, near the North Pole, where the sun is always up, and reached the Black Sea for sunset, the body of water that is dark and murky.  The Black Sea is also not very far from the northern parts of Russia and the North Pole:

(Click to play & enlarge)

"We made no cover...." was never mentioned for sunset.  Only to "where the sun is up...." in Noble Verse 18:90, which further supports that "We made no cover...." is indeed talking about the Northern territories near the North Pole.  See ample pictures of the sun never sets at the North Pole.

They also almost spoke unintelligibly: "...people who almost spoke unintelligibly" (18:93) لايكادون يفقهون قولا.  See the references below about the Vikings' language, and similar people of the North, when they were Barbarians.  Historians precisely say they spoke unintelligibly [1].

In either case, the Glorious Quran is the Divine and Miraculous Book of Allah Almighty.  The Holy Book is filled with thousands of Numerical and Scientific Miracles.  We have listed them here.  So it should be of no surprise to anyone, at all, to see the Glorious Quran's description of the sun's rising and setting to be scientifically accurate.

At the top of the North Pole, the sun never sets, and shown in this video.  I also quoted the scientific sources from Wikipedia.  Also in the lands near by, the sun almost never sets either, and I quoted sources for that as well, and also showed pictures of the "polar night" skies on these lands.  See ample pictures.

Never mentioned for Sunset:

"Until he reached near حتى اذا بلغ where the sun is up مطلع الشمس, he found it above وجدها تطلع على people قوم whom We made no cover for them from it لم نجعل لهم من دونها ستر.  (The Noble Quran, 18:90)"  

  
"We made no cover...." was never mentioned for sunset.  Only to "where the sun is up...." مطلع الشمس in Noble Verse 18:90, which further supports that "We made no cover...." is indeed talking about the Northern territories near the North Pole.  See ample pictures of the sun never sets at the North Pole.  See below.

Reaching Gog and Magog:

Allah Almighty in Noble Verses 18:83-100 mentioned three different geographic locations that Dhil Qarnayn marched to:

1-  The place where the sun never sets.
2-  The two barriers and a tribe from Gog and Magog.
3-  The murky body of water that resembles an eye.

Regarding the two barriers and a tribe from Gog and Magog:

[018:094] They said, `O Dhu'l Qarnain, verily, Gog and Magog are creating disorder in the earth; shall we then pay tribute on condition that thou set up a barrier between us and them ?'

The following historical account seems to describe this event accurately:

"The Gates of Alexander was a legendary barrier supposedly built by Alexander the Great in the Caucasus to keep the uncivilized barbarians of the north (typically associated with Gog and Magog [1]) from invading the land to the south. The gates were a popular subject in medieval travel literature, starting with the Alexander Romance in a version from perhaps the 6th century.

The wall, also known as the Caspian Gates, has been identified with two locations: the Pass of Derbent, Russia or with the Pass of Dariel, west of the Caspian Sea. Tradition also connects it to the Great Wall of Gorgan (Red Snake) on its south-eastern shore.

Historically, these fortifications were part of the defence lines built by Sasanians of Persia. The Great Wall of Gorgan may have been built by the Parthians.

The name Caspian Gates originally applied to the narrow region at the southeast corner of the Caspian Sea, through which Alexander actually marched in the pursuit of Bessus, although he did not stop to fortify it. It was transferred to the passes through the Caucasus, on the other side of the Caspian, by the more fanciful historians of Alexander.

Josephus, a Jewish historian in the 1st century, is known to have written of Alexander's gates, designed to be a barrier against the Scythians. According to this historian, the people whom the Greeks called Scythians were known (among the Jews) as Magogites, descendants of Magog in the Hebrew Bible. These references occur in two different works. The Jewish War states that the iron gates Alexander erected were controlled by the king of Hyrcania (on the south edge of the Caspian), and allowing passage of the gates to the Alans (whom Josephus considered a Scythic tribe) resulted in the sack of Media. Josephus's Antiquities of the Jews contains two relevant passages, one giving the ancestry of Scythians as descendants of Magog son of Japheth, and another that refers to the Caspian Gates being breached by Scythians allied to Tiberius during the Armenian War. [a][2]" (Source)

References:

1. Apocalypse of Pseudo-Methodius 8; Alexander Romance, epsilon recension 39.

a. Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews 1.123 and 18.97; The Jewish War 7.244-51.

2. Bietenholz, Peter G. (1994). Historia and fabula: myths and legends in historical thought from antiquity to the modern age. Brill. ISBN 9004100636.

Historians and archeologists are now discovering that the ancient Vikings have discovered and reached vast lands on earth, including being the first to discover the lands of Canada and America.  So there is so much that remains unknown about the Barbarians of the Vikings and other similar tribes from other nations.

Again, visit: 

Some of his stories:

Keep in mind that Allah Almighty began Noble Verses 18:83-100 by saying that He will tell us some of the stories of Dhil Qarnayn.  So there is a lot more to Dhil Qarnayn and his people than what is mentioned in the Noble Verses:

ويسألونك عن ذي القرنين قل ساتلو عليكم منه ذكرا

[018:083] They ask thee concerning Dhil Qarnayn. Say, "I will rehearse to you something of his story منه ذكرا."

Key Words:

Allah Almighty in the Glorious Quran, in Noble Verses 18:83-100, said the following key Words about Dhul or Dhil Qarnayn:

1. بلغ

2. مطلع الشمس

3. لم نجعل لهم من دونها ستر

4. مغرب الشمس

5. وجدها تغرب في عين حمئة

بلغ when used physically or geographically, it means reaching near the area/land, or in it.  This is for Noble Verse 18:86.  For example:

اذ جاؤوكم من فوقكم ومن اسفل منكم واذا زاغت الابصار وبلغت القلوب الحناجر وتظنون بالله الظنونا
  
[033:010] When they came upon you from above you and from below you, and when the eyes grew wild and the hearts reached (بلغت balaghat) to the throats, and you were harbouring doubts about Allah.
  
The hearts didn't literally reach the throats.  بلغ is clearly metaphoric, and it means coming near to.  Ample other examples from the Glorious Quran on بلغ  Balagha at: www.answering-christianity.com/sunrise_sunset.htm#balagha

‏مطلع الشمس.  Again, see ample pictures of the sun never sets at the North Pole.

18:90 حتى اذا بلغ مطلع الشمس وجدها تطلع على قوم لم نجعل لهم من دونها ستر

"Until he reached near حتى اذا بلغ where the sun is up مطلع الشمس, he found it above وجدها تطلع على people قوم whom We made no cover for them from it لم نجعل لهم من دونها ستر.  (The Noble Quran, 18:90)"

مطلع الشمس where the sun is up.  It does not mean sunrise.  In Arabic, sunrise is مشرق الشمس, where مشرق  is derived from  شرق  east.  See ample examples from the Glorious Quran about sunrise and sunset.  مغرب الشمس is sunset.  مغرب is derived from غرب  west.  But here, Allah Almighty used مطلع الشمس , which literally here means where the sun is always up.   مطلع is derived from طلع which means going up, which is why some Muslims a few centuries after Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, believed that Dhul Qarnyn reached up north, not east.  Late Dr. Mustafa Mahmoud, may Allah Almighty rest his soul, presented these maps.

See ample examples from the Glorious Quran about sunrise.
See ample examples from the Glorious Quran about sunset.

Also, let us look at Noble Word طلع in depth:

طلع , which is what مطلع is derived from, means that something (the sun in our case here) appears from somewhere, such as from behind a big object, such as a chain of mountains or clouds, or when the sun is always up.  For example:

  
The sun never sets at the North Pole:

"The midnight sun is a natural phenomenon that occurs in the summer months in places north of the Arctic Circle or south of the Antarctic Circle, when the sun remains visible at the local midnight.  Around the summer solstice (approximately 21 June in the Northern Hemisphere and 22 December in the Southern Hemisphere), the sun is visible for the full 24 hours, given fair weather. The number of days per year with potential midnight sun increases the closer towards either pole one goes. Although approximately defined by the polar circles, in practice the midnight sun can be seen as much as 55 miles (90 km) outside the polar circle, as described below, and the exact latitudes of the farthest reaches of midnight sun depend on topography and vary slightly year-to-year." (Source)

(Click to play clip)

Polar Nights in lands near by the North Pole:

"While the Sun doesn't rise above the horizon, it does come close to doing so. Instead of the pitch black many imagine it to be like, you get a blue light much of the time during the days of the polar night." (Sources: 1, 2)    "Polar night on Nordkinn Peninsula in Norway, mainland Europe's northernmost peninsula." (Sources: 1, 2)    Polar Night at Russia: "Polar night in Naryan-Mar, Russia. December 23, 2014, 11:27 (noon)" (Sources: 1, 2)

Polar night in Stockholm, Sweden.  Click on image.    Polar nights in the Arctic Circle.  Click on image.    Sources: 1, 2

Again, Allah Almighty didn't say مشرق الشمس sunrise, which is the term that counters مغرب الشمس sunset.  مغرب is derived from غرب  west.  No, instead, the Almighty used مطلع الشمس.  The Noble Verses were talking about near by lands to the North Pole.

  
They almost spoke unintelligibly:

"...people who almost spoke unintelligibly" (18:93) لايكادون يفقهون قولا. 

This perfectly fits the Vikings when they were considered barbarians.  They were brute, uncivilized, very primitive, disconnected from other civilizations, and didn't have a fully developed and intelligible language.  In fact, the word itself, barbarian, originates from Greek, and it means one who speaks unintelligibly:

1-  "The word barbarian conjures up more forus than the original Greek notion of someone whose unintelligible non-Greek language sounds like “bar-bar-bar..." (Source)

2-  Also from Indiana University: "....And finally, Maurice F. Hurley considers "Craft and Handiwork: Wood, Antler and Bone as an Everyday Material in Viking-Age Waterford and Cork," reminding us that most of the raw materials for urban crafts came from the surrounding hinterlands, even when these were marked by disparate political allegiances, mutually unintelligible languages or sharp differences in ethnicity...." (Source)
  

3-  "So what happened in the Northern Isles?

I don’t think that the Picts were ‘absorbed’ in Viking Shetland, or Viking Orkney, ...... I don’t think the Picts were just ‘overwhelmed’, or ‘submerged’, as Wainwright put it, while continuing to practise their religion and speak an unintelligible language at home." (Source)

Dhil Qarnayn ذي القرنين (one with the double horns):

Again, "Dhil Qarnayn" ذي القرنين in Noble Verse 18:83 means "one with the two horns".  We read about his story in more details in Noble Verses 18:83-100:

Dhul or Dhil = One who has.

قرنين Qarnayn = two horns.

They also spoke unintelligibly, the Quran says.  They hardly spoke intelligibly (18:93).  Historians have proven that the Barbarians of the North used to speak unintelligibly.  The description of the people of the North, whose North Pole is truly sunsetless (see ample pictures), perfectly fits the Barbarians of the Vikings in the Scandinavian and other Barbarians in the near by lands:

Dhil-Qarnayn literally means "man of two horns"

Only said for the sun-up:

Allah Almighty did not say that He made "no cover" for them from it for the sunset.  He said it for the sun-up only, which further proves that indeed the sun being always up, in Noble Verse 18:90 below, is referring to a geographical area in the North, since so much geographical proofs, and 1000-year old maps below, also point to that location as well.

"Until he reached near حتى اذا بلغ where the sun is up مطلع الشمس, he found it above وجدها تطلع على people قوم whom We made no cover for them from it لم نجعل لهم من دونها ستر.  (The Noble Quran, 18:90)"  

"We made no cover...." was never mentioned for sunset.  Only to "where the sun is up...." مطلع الشمس in Noble Verse 18:90, which further supports that "We made no cover...." is indeed talking about the Northern territories near the North Pole.  See ample pictures of the sun never sets at the North Pole.  See below.

Remember that they are located near where the sun never sets.  In the north, no shade was made from it for them.  It is almost always shining on them: لم نجعل لهم من دونها ستر.  "We made no cover for them from it" (18:90).  In other words, it never sets.  Night almost never comes:

(Click to play clip)

The infidels' nonsense:

So the sun sets inside a body of water? [1]  And how exactly does it rise back up again according to the anti-Islamics?

1. First of all, the Arabic Quran doesn't have the word PLACE (MAKAAN) in the Noble Verse.  Anti-Islamics such as David Wood deliberately use a wrong translation to prove their falsehood.
     
2. BALAGHA (reached) is used for time and place approximation and estimation. ADRAKA would've been literal, and that's not in the Noble Verses.  Again, for example:
     
   اذ جاؤوكم من فوقكم ومن اسفل منكم واذا زاغت الابصار وبلغت القلوب الحناجر وتظنون بالله الظنونا
     
   [033:010] When they came upon you from above you and from below you, and when the eyes grew wild and the hearts reached (بلغت balaghat) to the throats, and you were harbouring doubts about Allah.
     
   The hearts didn't literally reach the throats.  Ample more Noble Verses on BALAGHA are listed in this article.
     
     
     
3. MAGHREB (sunset) is also used for time and not actual place.  The Glorious Quran speaks about the earth's SUNRISES and SUNSETS.  The same Noble Words used in but in the plural:
   
   7:137 واورثنا القوم الذين كانوا يستضعفون مشارق الارض ومغاربها
   [007:137] And We made the people who were deemed weak to inherit the eastern lands and the western ones مشارق الارض ومغاربها
     
   37:5 رب السماوات والارض ومابينهما ورب المشارق
   [037:005] Lord of the heavens and of the earth and all between them, and Lord of every point at the rising of the sun! المشارق
     
   ‏70:40 فلا اقسم برب المشارق والمغارب انا لقادرون
   [070:040] And I need not swear by the Lord of the easts and the wests المشارق والمغارب; verily, we are able
     
   
     
   "Until he reached near حتى اذا بلغ where the sun is up مطلع الشمس, he found it above وجدها تطلع على people قوم whom We made no cover for them from it لم نجعل لهم من دونها ستر.  (The Noble Quran, 18:90)"  

   "We made no cover...." was never mentioned for sunset.  Only to "where the sun is up...." مطلع الشمس in Noble Verse 18:90, which further supports that "We made no cover...." is indeed talking about the Northern territories near the North Pole.  See ample pictures of the sun never sets at the North Pole.  See below.

     
     

4. The context of the Noble Verses speak about Dhul-Qarnayn marching with his army and he reached people during sunset in a mountainous area:

   
     
     
     

5. Sunset مغرب الشمس:
     
   Lake Issk Kul or the Black Sea or a similar body:

     
     
   Like an eye عين:
     
   
   (Click to play video)
     
   Dr. Zaghloul Al-Najjar talks about the muddy pool of water that also happens to look like an eye.
   This is a picture of the Issyk Kul lake in Kyrgyzstan.  It has muddy waters, and it looks like and eye
   as Allah Almighty in the Glorious Quran described.  And Allah Almighty always Knows Best.  And
   again, عين means both an eye and a body of water in Arabic.
     

   Lake Issk Kul or the Black Sea or a similar body: بلغ when used physically or geographically, it means reaching near the area/land, or in it.  This is for Noble Verse 18:86.  For example: اذ جاؤوكم من فوقكم ومن اسفل منكم واذا زاغت الابصار وبلغت القلوب الحناجر وتظنون بالله الظنونا    [033:010] When they came upon you from above you and from below you, and when the eyes grew wild and the hearts reached (بلغت balaghat) to the throats, and you were harbouring doubts about Allah.    The hearts didn't literally reach the throats.  بلغ is clearly metaphoric, and it means coming near to.  Ample other examples from the Glorious Quran on بلغ  Balagha at: www.answering-christianity.com/sunrise_sunset.htm#balagha    Let us now look at the top candidates for the body of water in Noble Verse 18:86: 1-  Lake Issk Kul: عين حمئة AYN HAME'AH in Noble Verse 18:86 means Murky and/or muddy water [1] [2] [3].  Some Muslims read it as AYN HAAMIYAH عين حامية, which means hot water [1].  This is based on Ibn Masood and Ibn Al-Zubayr's reading.  See below.  Interestingly, lake Issyk Kul, for example, which is shaped like an eye, and is murky and muddy, is also nicknamed the "hot lake" because it never freezes: ""Issyk-Kul" means "hot lake" in Kyrgyz, as it never freezes." (Source) "Issyk Kul lake is the second-largest alpine lake in the world....and though temperatures do dip significanty in the winter, the lake never freezes. The reason for this is its high salt content, which has also endowed it with its name, which translates to ‘hot lake’." (Source, 2) "About 118 rivers and streams flow into the lake; the largest are the Djyrgalan and Tyup. It is fed by springs, including many hot springs, and snow melt. The lake has no current outlet, but some hydrologists hypothesize[7] that the lake's water filters deep underground into the Chu River. The bottom of the lake contains the mineral monohydrocalcite: one of the few known lacustrine deposits." (Source) حمئة is murky and/or muddy [1] [2] [3]. "وجَدها تَغْرُب في عَيْنٍ حَمِئةٍ، وقرأَ ابن مسعود وابن الزبير: حاميةٍ", translates as "He found it setting in a body of water that is HAME'AH حمئة , is read by Ibn Masood and Ibn Al-Zubayr as: HAAMIYAH حاميةٍ"    Why حمئة and not حاميةٍ: The hotness of the lake here is symbolic, which is perhaps why Allah Almighty chose حمئة and not حامية, which the latter literally means "hot".  So حمئة is symbolically hot, and it is actually murky and/or muddy.  And Allah Almighty always Knows Best. Lake Issyk Kul is indeed both murky and muddy [2]: (Click on image) Lake Issyk Kul here gives us a beautiful natural description on what the body of water that Dhil Qarnayn ذي القرنين  and his army reached was like.  It could very well be indeed lake Issyk Kul itself.  Or it could be a similar body of water with similar features.  Only Allah Almighty Knows.    2-  The Black Sea: Late Dr. Mustafa Mahmoud, may Allah Almighty rest his soul and grant him Paradise, - Ameen, - gave old Islamic maps (video) that date 1000+ old that estimate that Dhil Qarnayn reached all the way north, near the North Pole, where the sun is always up, and reached the Black Sea for sunset, the body of water that is dark and murky.  The Black Sea is also not very far from the northern parts of Russia and the North Pole: (Click to play video and to enlarge pictures) "We made no cover...." was never mentioned for sunset.  Only to "where the sun is up...." in Noble Verse 18:90, which further supports that "We made no cover...." is indeed talking about the Northern territories near the North Pole.  See ample pictures of the sun never sets at the North Pole. They also almost spoke unintelligibly: "...people who almost spoke unintelligibly" (18:93) لايكادون يفقهون قولا.  See the references below about the Vikings' language, and similar people of the North, when they were Barbarians.  Historians precisely say they spoke unintelligibly [1]. At the top of the North Pole, the sun never sets, and shown in this video.  I also quoted the scientific sources from Wikipedia.  Also in the lands near by, the sun almost never sets either, and I quoted sources for that as well, and also showed pictures of the "polar night" skies on these lands.  See ample pictures.    *** Thousands of Miracles: In either case or in any case regarding Noble Verse 18:86's body of water, the Glorious Quran is the Divine and Miraculous Book of Allah Almighty.  The Holy Book is filled with thousands of Numerical and Scientific Miracles.  We have listed them here.  So it should be of no surprise to anyone, at all, to see the Glorious Quran's description of the sun's rising and setting to be scientifically accurate, and very beautiful.

     

6. Again, Allah Almighty referred to the actual rising and setting points of the sun on earth.  The Glorious Quran says there are many rising and setting points [2] of the sun on earth.
     
     

     

   The sun never ceases nor disappears [1] [2] [3] [4] [5]:

   
   (Play video file: [1] [2])

   

   Prophet Muhammad: The sun is in constant orbit always rising on people while setting on others.

   عن ابن عباس رضي الله عنهما ان رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم سئل :هذه المغارب اين تغرب ؟ وهذه المطالع اين تطلع ؟ فقال صلى الله عليه وسلم هي على رسلها لا تبرح ولا تزول , تغرب عن قوم وتطلع على قوم ,وتغرب عن قوم وتطلع , فقوم يقولون غربت ,وقوم يقولون طلعت

   "Ibn Abbas narrated on Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, that the Prophet was asked: Where does the sun go after all of these sunsets? And where does it come from after all of these sunrises? The Prophet, peace be upon him, replied: It is in constant motion. It doesn't stop nor disappear. It sets on people and rises on others, and it sets on people and rises on others. So people would say it has risen while others say it has set."

   Sources:

   1- Jami'a Al-Usool li-ibn Al-Atheer.
   جامع الأصول لابن الأثير

   2- Musnad Al-Imam Abi Is'haq Al-Hamadani
   مسند الامام ابي اسحاق الهمداني

   3- Al-Ijaz Al-Ilmi Fe Al-Sunna Al-Nabawiyyah, Dr. Zaghloul Al-Najjar, Page 132.
     

   Allah Almighty in the Glorious Quran said that earth is:        -  Spherical: "egg-shaped" [1].        -  Is rotating around itself.        -  Is moving in space in curvy orbits [2].        -  Is in constant motion.        -  Is suspended in space.        -  Is swimming in space.        -  Is traveling through the constantly expanding universe [3].        -  The sunsetless North Pole miracle in the Glorious Quran [4].  At the top of the North Pole, the sun never sets, and I showed the video for that, and also quoted the scientific sources for that. Also in the lands near by, it almost never sets either, and I quoted sources for that as well, and also showed pictures of the "polar night" skies on these lands.    He saw the Aurora Lights covering: Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, saw the aurora lights covering the horizons of space above the earth when he was taken up to Heaven: Narrated Abdullah: "Regarding the Verse: “Indeed he (Muhammad) did see. Of the Signs of his Lord, The Greatest!” (Quran 53.18) That the Prophet had seen a green carpet spread all over the horizon of the sky." (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 54, Number 456)    Regarding Dhil-Qarnayn (literally means "man of two horns"), Allah Almighty said this about his journey to the farthest northern lands and people: ‏18:90 حتى اذا بلغ مطلع الشمس وجدها تطلع على قوم لم نجعل لهم من دونها ستر "Until he reached near حتى اذا بلغ where the sun is up مطلع الشمس, he found it above وجدها تطلع على people قوم whom We made no cover for them from it لم نجعل لهم من دونها ستر.  (The Noble Quran, 18:90)" Noble Verse(s) 18:91 Rodwell: [018:091]  Thus it was. And we had full knowledge of the forces that were with him. Arabic (Read from right to left.  Also, all png image files: [1] [2]): ‏18:91 كذلك وقد احطنا بما لديه خبرا     Prophet Muhammad "did see" (Quran 53.18) the Aurora Lights covering the horizons above the earth from space.  Dhil-Qarnayn went up to the farthest northern lands where the sun is up, and "Thus it was", Allah Almighty completed the "full knowledge" regarding Dhil-Qarnayn's mission.  This further supports the story below about Dhil-Qarnayn's journey to the farthest northern lands and people (The sunsetless North Pole Quran-miracle).  They also spoke unintelligibly, the Quran says.  They hardly spoke intelligibly (18:93).  Historians have proven that the Barbarians of the North used to speak unintelligibly.  The description of the people of the North, whose North Pole is truly sunsetless (see ample pictures), perfectly fits the Barbarians of the Vikings in the Scandinavian and other Barbarians in the near by lands: Dhil-Qarnayn literally means "man of two horns" Dhil = One who has. قرنين Qarnayn = two horns.  Qarnayn is a dual plural of Qarn (horn). Three or more horns is Quroon, in Arabic.    I believe Noble Verses 53:18 and 18:91 are prophetically linked together; that Prophet Muhammad also saw what Dhil-Qarnayn ذي القرنين  saw.  Also visit:  Aurora Lights Hadith    Other pronunciations to "Dhil Qarnayn"ذي القرنين  name:  Zul-qarnain, Dhul Qurnain, Dhu'l Qarnain, Zulqarnain, Dhu'l-Qarneyn, Dhu'lkarnein, Dhul-Qarnain, Dhu'l Qarnain, Dhool Karnain, Zul-Qarnain, Dhoulkarnain.        -  The Glorious Quran also speaks about many earths [5] and not just earth.        -  The Glorious Quran predicts 11 planets in our solar system [6].    In the end, Allah Almighty uses the Glorious Quran to "...Thus doth God leave to stray whom He pleaseth, and guide whom He pleaseth..." (74:31).  The infidels misuse the Glorious Quran to find "scientific errors".  The Glorious Quran is Allah Almighty's Perfect Divine Holy Book.  It contains no scientific error.  Visit the following example and the link to see 1000s of Numerical and Scientific Miracles: 1-  The root for message and all of its derivatives, such as messenger and others occurs 513 times throughout the Glorious Quran.  The Prophets' and Messengers', peace be upon them, actual names (Muhammad, Moses, Noah, Abraham, Lot etc....) were also all combined mentioned 513 times in the Glorious Quran.  The detailed breakdown of all of this is thoroughly listed here. Coincidence?  See 1,000s of examples! [1]. (zip file). Quran's Stunning Numerical & Scientific Miracles.

   www.answering-christianity.com/egg-shaped_earth.htm

       
     

7. The Glorious Quran speaks about the SUN TRAVELING IN SPACE IN ITS ORBIT [2].
     
8. The Glorious Quran in multiple Noble Verses spoke about the earth being SPHERICAL, TRAVELING IN SPACE, ROTATING AROUND ITSELF, and IS IN CONSTANT MOTION [1].
     
9. If the sun were to set in a body of water, then it would have to rise back again from that place.  And no where does it say that it would set again in another pool of water (i.e., bouncing back and forth).
     
     
10. Allah Almighty never declared that Dhul-Qarnayn reached the ends of the earth.  No mention of ends of the earth in the entire Glorious Quran.  Unlike the Bible, for example, where it talks about earth's "four corners", the Quran has no such phrases.
      
    Allah Almighty never Said that Dhul-Qarnayn had reached the "ends of the earth" where the sun supposedly rises and sets.  The Glorious Quran says clearly that the earth is spherical [2].  Also on the contrary, it is the Bible that says that:
      

    1. The earth has ends.

    2. It is standing on pillars that prevent it from shaking.

    3. GOD Almighty will shake the earth to throw the people into space.

    4. It has four corners.

    Please visit: The Bible declares that the earth is flat [2].

    Clearly, the Glorious Quran is in no scientific blunder regarding the shape of the earth, and the solar system.  In fact, there are ample Noble Verses that clearly and indisputably state:

    Allah Almighty in the Glorious Quran said that earth is:        -  Spherical: "egg-shaped" [1].        -  Is rotating around itself.        -  Is moving in space in curvy orbits [2].        -  Is in constant motion.        -  Is suspended in space.        -  Is swimming in space.        -  Is traveling through the constantly expanding universe [3].        -  The sunsetless North Pole miracle in the Glorious Quran [4].  At the top of the North Pole, the sun never sets, and I showed the video for that, and also quoted the scientific sources for that. Also in the lands near by, it almost never sets either, and I quoted sources for that as well, and also showed pictures of the "polar night" skies on these lands.    He saw the Aurora Lights covering: Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, saw the aurora lights covering the horizons of space above the earth when he was taken up to Heaven: Narrated Abdullah: "Regarding the Verse: “Indeed he (Muhammad) did see. Of the Signs of his Lord, The Greatest!” (Quran 53.18) That the Prophet had seen a green carpet spread all over the horizon of the sky." (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 54, Number 456)    Regarding Dhil-Qarnayn (literally means "man of two horns"), Allah Almighty said this about his journey to the farthest northern lands and people: ‏18:90 حتى اذا بلغ مطلع الشمس وجدها تطلع على قوم لم نجعل لهم من دونها ستر "Until he reached near حتى اذا بلغ where the sun is up مطلع الشمس, he found it above وجدها تطلع على people قوم whom We made no cover for them from it لم نجعل لهم من دونها ستر.  (The Noble Quran, 18:90)" Noble Verse(s) 18:91 Rodwell: [018:091]  Thus it was. And we had full knowledge of the forces that were with him. Arabic (Read from right to left.  Also, all png image files: [1] [2]): ‏18:91 كذلك وقد احطنا بما لديه خبرا     Prophet Muhammad "did see" (Quran 53.18) the Aurora Lights covering the horizons above the earth from space.  Dhil-Qarnayn went up to the farthest northern lands where the sun is up, and "Thus it was", Allah Almighty completed the "full knowledge" regarding Dhil-Qarnayn's mission.  This further supports the story below about Dhil-Qarnayn's journey to the farthest northern lands and people (The sunsetless North Pole Quran-miracle).  They also spoke unintelligibly, the Quran says.  They hardly spoke intelligibly (18:93).  Historians have proven that the Barbarians of the North used to speak unintelligibly.  The description of the people of the North, whose North Pole is truly sunsetless (see ample pictures), perfectly fits the Barbarians of the Vikings in the Scandinavian and other Barbarians in the near by lands: Dhil-Qarnayn literally means "man of two horns" Dhil = One who has. قرنين Qarnayn = two horns.  Qarnayn is a dual plural of Qarn (horn). Three or more horns is Quroon, in Arabic.    I believe Noble Verses 53:18 and 18:91 are prophetically linked together; that Prophet Muhammad also saw what Dhil-Qarnayn ذي القرنين  saw.  Also visit:  Aurora Lights Hadith    Other pronunciations to "Dhil Qarnayn"ذي القرنين  name:  Zul-qarnain, Dhul Qurnain, Dhu'l Qarnain, Zulqarnain, Dhu'l-Qarneyn, Dhu'lkarnein, Dhul-Qarnain, Dhu'l Qarnain, Dhool Karnain, Zul-Qarnain, Dhoulkarnain.        -  The Glorious Quran also speaks about many earths [5] and not just earth.        -  The Glorious Quran predicts 11 planets in our solar system [6].    In the end, Allah Almighty uses the Glorious Quran to "...Thus doth God leave to stray whom He pleaseth, and guide whom He pleaseth..." (74:31).  The infidels misuse the Glorious Quran to find "scientific errors".  The Glorious Quran is Allah Almighty's Perfect Divine Holy Book.  It contains no scientific error.  Visit the following example and the link to see 1000s of Numerical and Scientific Miracles: 1-  The root for message and all of its derivatives, such as messenger and others occurs 513 times throughout the Glorious Quran.  The Prophets' and Messengers', peace be upon them, actual names (Muhammad, Moses, Noah, Abraham, Lot etc....) were also all combined mentioned 513 times in the Glorious Quran.  The detailed breakdown of all of this is thoroughly listed here. Coincidence?  See 1,000s of examples! [1]. (zip file). Quran's Stunning Numerical & Scientific Miracles.

    Ample vocabularies from seven encyclopedic Arabic dictionaries about earth in the Glorious Quran.  Please visit:
      

    Earth is spherical [2].
      

    Detailed Analysis from Lisan Al-Arab (this alone is 10 big books) and 7 other dictionaries proving the Scientific Miracles in the Holy Quran in Great Details.
      

    The Overwhelming Scientific and Numerical Miracles in the Glorious Quran.
      

    See also the 1000s of examples of the Glorious Quran's Stunning Numerical and Scientific Miracles.
      
    Allah Almighty Said that He will show the latter generations these Miracles to prove that the Quran is from Him.

Possible Geographical and Astronomical Significance:

I also believe that since Allah Almighty speaks also in plural about the sunrise and sunset points of the sun on earth, then it is possible that Allah Almighty here referred to geographical locations that have astronomical alignment significance.  The sun and the earth orbit each other in an S-shaped or number 8 orbit:

This is also all demonstrated in good details in the following video file and articles:

www.answering-christianity.com/egg-shaped_earth.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/detailed_meanings_of_scientific_words_in_verses.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#links

This is why the sun doesn't orbit around the earth in one straight line.  This is due to earth's axle tilt and change of orbit.  So the sunset and sunrise points (plural) in the Glorious Quran could be astronomical points.  This might be similar to the location of Mecca, and the location of the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem, where Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, was taken up to Heaven from that rock (before the Dome was built above it).

Consider the following moon's orbit Miracle in the Glorious Quran.  Notice below "...until it ends up looking like حتى عاد...".   Where does it astronomically begin and end up عاد?
  

Again, Where does the moon astronomically begin and end?  Read ample Noble Verses, analysis, quotations from scientific sources, and so much more in this article.

  
Again, read the ample Noble Verses, analysis, quotations from scientific sources, and so much more, after the Abstract table, in this article.