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Rebuttal to Sam Shamoun’s article

A Series of Answers to Common Questions

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Question:

How can Jesus be God when he denies being absolutely good, and says that only God is good (cf. Mark 10:18)? 
 
http://./Shamoun/q_only_god_good.htm

Once again Shamoun writes up another article to try and answer a common Muslim question. Shamoun of course fails to answer the question as usual, and fails to show that Jesus is God.

He wrote:

Answer:

The passage, in context, actually says:

    "As He was setting out on a journey, a man ran up to Him and knelt before Him, and asked Him, ‘Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?’ And Jesus said to him, ‘Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.’" Mark 10:17-18

By wrenching such statements out of their immediate and overall contexts, the impression is given that the Lord Jesus is actually denying he is God since he denies that he is good in the sense that God is good. The questioner's logic goes something like this:

   1. God alone is (absolutely) good.

   2. Jesus is not (absolutely) good.

   3. Therefore, Jesus is not God.

This misleading selectivity leads the questioner to erroneously conclude that Jesus was denying his essential goodness. He/she automatically assumes that Jesus is denying his absolute purity without taking into consideration the overall context of Mark, as well as the entire NT, to see if this is indeed what Christ was trying to convey.

My response:

Jesus is denying that he is good in the sense that God is good. It is good you quote the entire passage; it makes it even better. This is because Jesus is denying the claim of him being God to a common person who has the mis-guided belief that he is God, the same with many others. As for the entire NT, the NT does not claim Jesus is God, quite the opposite, it shows that Jesus is no more than a prophet, and denies being God. For proof click here. 

He wrote:

In other words, in order to truly understand what Jesus meant we need to interpret his words in the overall Christological picture of the Gospel writers, specifically in light of Mark's Christology. Once this is done it will become quite apparent that the last thing Mark (as well as the other writers) was trying to do was cast doubt on Jesus' absolute sinlessness and Deity. Here are some citations from Mark which helps put things in proper perspective:

    "In those days Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan. Immediately coming up out of the water, He saw the heavens opening, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon Him; and a voice came out of the heavens: 'You are My beloved Son, in You I AM WELL-PLEASED.'" Mark 1:9-11

    "Just then a man in their synagogue who was possessed by an evil spirit cried out, ‘What do you want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are - the Holy One of God!’ ‘Be quiet!’ said Jesus sternly. ‘Come out of him!’ The evil spirit shook the man violently and came out of him with a shriek. The people were all so amazed that they asked each other, What is this? A new teaching - and with authority! He even gives orders to evil spirits and they obey him." Mark 1:23-27

    "After six days Jesus took Peter, James and John with him and led them up a high mountain, where they were all alone. There he was transfigured before them. His clothes became dazzling white, whiter than anyone in the world could bleach them. And there appeared before them Elijah and Moses, who were talking with Jesus. Peter said to Jesus, ‘Rabbi, it is good for us to be here. Let us put up three shelters - one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah.’ (He did not know what to say, they were so frightened.) Then a cloud appeared and enveloped them, and a voice came from the cloud: ‘This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to him!’" Mark 9:2-7

    "He had one more to send, a beloved son; he sent him last of all to them, saying, 'They will respect my son.' But those vine-growers said to one another, 'This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and the inheritance will be ours!'" Mark 12:6-7

My response:

I must ask where in those verses does it show Jesus being God? Let us take each verse he posted point by point.

In those days Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan. Immediately coming up out of the water, He saw the heavens opening, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon Him; and a voice came out of the heavens: 'You are My beloved Son, in You I AM WELL-PLEASED.'" Mark 1:9-11

Just because God said he was well-pleased with Jesus that makes Jesus God? Does that make Jesus good in the sense he is God? Certainly not, this is an absurd argument. The Bible shows other situations were God is said to be well pleased about something, or seeing something was good, does this make those things he is pleased in God? 

Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that [it was] good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

Gen 1:10 And God called the dry [land] Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that [it was] good.

Gen 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that [it was] good.

Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, [it was] very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Those are the verses which deal with the creation of the heavens and the earth. We see God always saying that he saw what he created and it was good, meaning he was pleased at it. So does that make the light which he was pleased in and said was good God? As we also see in Genesis 1:31 God says he saw everything he created and it was VERY good, meaning he was VERY pleased in it, not just WELL-PLEASED. So does that make all the creation he created Gods? Does it make them perfect in the sense of God being perfect? Certainly not! I would now like to ask Shamoun, and every Christian, why shouldn’t God be WELL-PLEASED in Jesus? What's wrong with Jesus that God can’t say ‘I am pleased with you’? The fact of the matter is, is that God is pleased with Jesus his servant, with Jesus his prophet, with Jesus his messenger, and there is nothing wrong with that.

 I would like to know that God is pleased with us, or when he says the ones who are good among us. Every Christian would say yes God is pleased in you! So does that make you God! No! So I would like to know, what is so special about God saying he is well-pleased in Jesus. I will answer it for everyone, there is nothing special about it.

The next verses he quoted:

Just then a man in their synagogue who was possessed by an evil spirit cried out, ‘What do you want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are - the Holy One of God!’ ‘Be quiet!’ said Jesus sternly. ‘Come out of him!’ The evil spirit shook the man violently and came out of him with a shriek. The people were all so amazed that they asked each other, What is this? A new teaching - and with authority! He even gives orders to evil spirits and they obey him." Mark 1:23-27

What makes Jesus good in the sense of God being good in those verses? Let me just take care of the ending of the verse which says : What is this? A new teaching - and with authority! He even gives orders to evil spirits and they obey him. This new teaching just happens to belong to the Father and not Jesus, and this authority also happens to have been given to Jesus, not owned by Jesus. Just wanted to clear that up. However Shamoun did not underline or bold a specific point in those verses. I assume his main point in posting those verses was because Jesus is called the holy of one of God, and for Jesus to be called holy makes him God, or makes him good in the same sense that God is good. However so that doesn’t work neither, Jesus is not the only one who is called holy in the Bible.

Exd 3:5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest [is] holy ground.

Exd 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These [are] the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Exd 22:31 And ye shall be holy men unto me: neither shall ye eat [any] flesh [that is] torn of beasts in the field; ye shall cast it to the dogs.

Exd 28:2 And thou shalt make holy garments for Aaron thy brother for glory and for beauty.

2Ch 35:3 And said unto the Levites that taught all Israel, which were holy unto the LORD, Put the holy ark in the house which Solomon the son of David king of Israel did build; [it shall] not [be] a burden upon [your] shoulders: serve now the LORD your God, and his people Israel,

Here is the ultimate proof

Daniel 4:23 "You, O king, saw a messenger, a holy one, coming down from heaven and saying, 'Cut down the tree and destroy it, but leave the stump, bound with iron and bronze, in the grass of the field, while its roots remain in the ground. Let him be drenched with the dew of heaven; let him live like the wild animals, until seven times pass by for him.'

As we can see, Holy One could mean messenger. So when Jesus is called ‘The Holy One of God’, it simply means the messenger of God. As a Muslim, I agree with this statement 100%.

There is much more, but I believe that will do. So is the holy ground God? Is the holy garments God? Are the holy men and Holy nation Gods? According to Shamoun yes they are, they are perfect and good in the same sense that God is good and perfect because they are called holy.

The other verses he quoted mean nothing as well, however Shamoun has already caused enough damage for himself already. Moving on

He wrote:

Jesus is God's beloved Son, his Holy One and Heir, with whom God is pleased. For God to say that he is well pleased with the Lord Jesus, and for him to be called God's Holy One, implies that Christ is absolutely good and morally pure.

My response:

WRONG. If that is true, then the holy ground is god, so is the holy men and holy nation, and the holy garments! Not only that, then all of creation are god and perfect in the same sense as God is perfect and good because he saw it as VERY good, meaning he was VERY pleased. And once again, why shouldn’t God be pleased in Jesus? I have no idea. Secondly Jesus did not claim to be the holy one! The devil called him the holy one! So are we supposed to believe in what the devil said! Jesus told the devil to shut up anyway. As for Jesus being the heir, the killers were the ones who thought he was the heir; I don’t take the opinions of killers as solid truth about somebody. Are we to believe all those prophets killed by pagans and Jews were fakes? Or were they liars and blasphemers, because that’s what their killers accused them of, using Shamoun's logic, then yes those prophets were liars, and fakes, and blasphemers!

He wrote:

    ... And they came, bringing to Him a paralytic, carried by four men ... And Jesus seeing their faith said to the paralytic, ‘My son, your sins are forgiven.’  But there were some of the scribes sitting there and reasoning in their hearts, ‘Why does this man speak that way? He is blaspheming; who can forgive sins but God alone?’ And immediately Jesus, aware in His spirit that they were reasoning that way within themselves, said to them, ‘Why are you reasoning about these things in your hearts? Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, "Your sins are forgiven"; or to say, "Arise take up your pallet and walk"? But in order that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins’ - He said to the paralytic - ‘I say to you, rise, take up your pallet and go home.’ And he rose and immediately took up the pallet and went out in the sight of all; so that they were all amazed and were glorifying God, saying, ‘We have never seen anything like this.’" Mark 2:3, 5-12

    "For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many." Mark 10:45

    "And He said to them, ‘This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many.’" Mark 14:24

Christ can forgive sins on the basis of his having the divine authority to do so, and as a result of his forfeiting his own life as a ransom for others. Again, the only way Christ can forgive sins and die as a ransom is if he were sinless. Otherwise, he would need to be forgiven of his own sins and would be in need of a ransom.

My response:

Well I could just stop at where I last left off. Shamoun has cause serious damage to his article and his faith. I could just leave it and walk away, but I will stay longer to refute him even more. So Shamoun tell us what is so special about Jesus forgiving sins? I see nothing special about it, we all know God gave him that power and authority as I shown in previous rebuttals [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6]. So no point there. Jesus did not come to die for our sins, this is injustice, not justice, an innocent man to come down and die for our sins. Christ has no divine authority! What a liar, show me the verse where Christ performed a single miracle on his own! Bring it, and I hope you do bring it because this will show your bible is a lie since it claims Jesus got EVERYTHING from the Father. No Christ was able to forgive sins because God allowed him to, God is powerful enough to grant Jesus such a right.

According to John 20:23, the disciples were granted authority to forgive sins, does that mean that the disciples are God as well?

However on the point of Jesus dying, if Jesus is God he would never die, and how can part of God die if you believe in a trinity? Click here for further information (*) (*).

He wrote:

"Consequently, the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath." Mark 2:28

God alone is sovereign over his own Sabbath:

    "For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, a holy convocation. You shall not do any work; it is a sabbath to the LORD in all your dwellings." Leviticus 23:3

The only way that Christ could be Lord over the Sabbath is if he is God, and yet to be God is to be absolutely good.

My response:

Well if Jesus is the lord of the Sabbath, and so is the Father, and so is the spirit, then we have THREE rulers of the Sabbath. Three different lords of the Sabbath, but I thought we have one ruler? Well it seems we have three rulers of the Sabbath now, and it is obvious we are not talking about one God, no matter how Trinitarians want to run around it. Three lords of the Sabbath don’t leave us with one lord. However so, we do know that The Father did give Jesus authority of the heavens and the earth, so this would make it perfectly clear as to why the son of man would be called lord of the Sabbath, nothing special.

I find it strange to why Shamoun keeps failing to make it clear, Jesus was GIVEN the authority and power, he did not own it, and Shamoun acts like Jesus owned it. Shamoun acts like Jesus had the power on his own, but the fact is that he didn’t. For further information on this issue please visit these rebuttals to Shamoun (*)(*)(*). However the fact also remains, Jesus said why do you call me good?

He wrote:

    "For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will also be ashamed of him when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels." Mark 8:38

    "And Jesus began to say, as He taught in the temple, 'How is it that the scribes say that the Christ is the son of David? David himself said in the Holy Spirit, "THE LORD SAID TO MY LORD, 'SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND, UNTIL I PUT YOUR ENEMIES BENEATH YOUR FEET.'" David himself calls Him 'Lord'; so in what sense is He his son?' And the large crowd enjoyed listening to Him." Mark 12:35-37

    "Then they will see THE SON OF MAN COMING IN CLOUDS with great power and glory. And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together HIS ELECT from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven." Mark 13:26-27

    "But He kept silent and did not answer. Again the high priest was questioning Him, and saying to Him, 'Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?' And Jesus said, 'I AM; and you shall see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING WITH THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN.'" Mark 14:61-62

My response:

Not one of those verses show that Jesus is God. Let us go with each verse point by point.

   "For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will also be ashamed of him when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels." Mark 8:38

I agree with that, no one should be ashamed of Jesus and his words. He was a prophet who came to spread the message of God, and bring people back to the true God. Jesus' message was that there is only one God, and to believe in the one who sent him. We Muslims are not ashamed of Jesus, we love him and respect him, however so we don’t believe in the words of Paul, and other people. 

And Jesus began to say, as He taught in the temple, 'How is it that the scribes say that the Christ is the son of David? David himself said in the Holy Spirit, "THE LORD SAID TO MY LORD, 'SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND, UNTIL I PUT YOUR ENEMIES BENEATH YOUR FEET.'" David himself calls Him 'Lord'; so in what sense is He his son?' And the large crowd enjoyed listening to Him." Mark 12:35-37

Where does that show that Jesus is God? As a matter of fact, Shamoun points out a mistake in the bible for us. Jesus here is denying being called a son by David. Yet, in Matthew 1:1, Jesus is called the Son of David and in several other places as well. Go to this link.

Look at the passage, “The Lord said to my Lord”, that means we have two Lords (two gods). But it is possible to mean this

The Lord (as in god) said to my Lord (master or teacher).

"Then they will see THE SON OF MAN COMING IN CLOUDS with great power and glory. And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together HIS ELECT from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven." Mark 13:26-27

And where does that show Jesus being God? 

"But He kept silent and did not answer. Again the high priest was questioning Him, and saying to Him, 'Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?' And Jesus said, 'I AM; and you shall see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING WITH THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN.'" Mark 14:61-62

It is a sign of honor to say to be sitting at the right hand of power which God. I find it funny if we took it literally, because we would then see Jesus sitting on the right chair, and the Father in the middle centered chair, 2 different persons, yet there is one God! Very funny I must say, Jesus is God, the Father is God, yet there is one God. Not even trinity can help you out, if you say Jesus is God, and then say the Father is God, you have 2 Gods.

So Shamoun showed us he believes in 3 Gods, and also failed to show that Jesus is God, this is getting amusing now.

He wrote:

Christ is identifying himself as the Son of Man whom the prophet Daniel saw in a vision, the very One who reigns forever and whom all must serve:

    "I kept looking in the night visions, And behold, with the clouds of heaven One like a Son of Man was coming, And He came up to the Ancient of Days And was presented before Him. And to Him was given dominion, Glory and a kingdom, That all the peoples, nations and men of every language Might serve Him His dominion is an everlasting dominion Which will not pass away; And His kingdom is one Which will not be destroyed." Daniel 7:13-14

Thus, Jesus is the Son of Man who sits enthroned forever at God's right hand as Lord over all the angels and the entire creation!

My response:

No way! Very funny to see in Daniel’s vision that Jesus is once again GIVEN the power! I thought once Jesus died and came back it would be the divine and mighty Jesus, who was not bound by flesh. Well I guess even the divine Jesus is not all powerful, and needs things and help from the Father, meaning HE IS NOT GOD! Visit all these previous rebuttals [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] which prove that Jesus IS NOT GOD.

He wrote:

These are just some of the many passages from Mark that establish the absolute purity and sinlessness of the Lord Jesus. Here are several from John's Gospel:

    "Simon Peter answered him, ‘Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. We believe and know that you are the Holy One of God.’" John 6:68-69

    "He who speaks on his own does so to gain honor for himself, but he who works for the honor of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him." John 7:18

    "The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him ... Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me?" John 8:29, 46

    "I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep ... I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me." John 10:11, 14

To summarize the preceding data, we learned that:

   1. Jesus is God's Holy One.

   2. Jesus is God's beloved Son.

   3. Jesus is the Heir.

   4. Jesus is the Forgiver of sinners.

   5. Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath.

   6. Jesus is David's Lord.

   7. Jesus is the Lord of the angels, of demons, and of the elect.

   8. Jesus is the the divine Son of Man who comes on the clouds to reign forever.

My response:

Very nice summary by Shamoun. Let me make my own TRUE summary.

1- Others claimed Jesus is God's holy one not Jesus, and others are called holy too and we also saw from Daniel 4:23 that Holy One could mean messenger.

2- God had many sons not just Jesus.

3- The killers claimed he was the heir.

4- Jesus was given that right and authority, and did not own it.

5- We have 3 lords of the Sabbath, I thought we had one. Once again Jesus was given authority, so it is natural for him to be the lord of the Sabbath.

6- Jesus is not David's Lord.

7- Jesus is not the lord of the angels and demons; however the Bible says Satan would be the God of this world.

8- The divine Jesus had no power of his own, meaning he is not God. 

He wrote:

In light of the foregoing, we can now exegete the passage to see what the Lord Jesus actually meant to say to the rich man. In the first place, Jesus didn't say "I am not good, only God is good", but simply poses a question to the man to think more deeply about the implications of his words. The implication being that if Jesus is good, and only God is good, then Jesus is God. Again, note the logic behind this:

   1. God alone is (absolutely) good.

   2. Jesus is (absolutely) good.

   3. Therefore, Jesus is God.

My response:

Very nice logic, Jesus did not say I am not good. Shamoun you are very funny indeed, look at the verse, it is obvious what Jesus meant, why do you call me good? Only God is good, meaning he is not good in the same sense as God being good, people will laugh at you at such a silly statement.

1- God is good, Jesus was not

2- Jesus is not Good, he said why do you call me good?

3- Therefore Jesus is not God.

He wrote:

If the man truly believed this then he must be willing to abandon everything for Christ. This is precisely what Jesus demanded:

    "And looking at him, Jesus felt love for him, and said to him, ‘One thing you lack: go and sell all you possess, and give to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven; and come, FOLLOW ME.’" Mark 10:21

Jesus demands a devotion that is to be given solely to God. This is clearly seen in light of the fact that Jesus' demand was made right after the man had indicated his observance to the last six commands of the Ten Commandments. These commands were given to govern a person's relationship with others. The first four commandments govern a person's devotion to God. The man's trouble was that he loved money more than God, and hence his money became an idol. He had to be willing to die to his idolatry by giving it up in order to devote himself completely to the pure worship of God. Yet, amazingly, Jesus never asked the man to follow the first four commandments, or to follow God completely, but directed the man to follow him. The reason being is that to wholeheartedly follow the Lord Jesus is to fulfill one's obligation to God. Thus, Jesus was implicitly claiming to be God since he was basically saying that to follow him is to follow God, to obey him is to obey God, to love him is to love God. Therefore Jesus is God!

My response:

Very funny, Jesus telling him to follow him doesn’t make Jesus God! That is a joke if I ever heard one! Jesus told the man to follow him meaning don’t love money, don’t worship it, love God and worship God. Follow me in the path that we both worship ONE God! That was Jesus' message, there is only ONE God, and we should believe in him, the ONE WHO SENT JESUS. Therefore Jesus is not God!

Rebuttals, and exposing the lies of the Answering Islam team section.

Rebuttals to Sam Shamoun's Articles section.

A Muslim's Rebuttals section.

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