Rebuttal to Sam Shamoun’s article:

Surat Ar-Rum Revisited

By

 

 

 

http://www..net/Shamoun/incomplete.htm

 

 

 

He Wrote

 

Previously, I had written an article documenting Muhammad's false prophecies.

 

My Response

 

I have also written a 3 part rebuttal to this article, the rebuttals can be found here:

 

https://www.answering-christianity.com/rebuttal_to_sam_shamoun_42.htm

 

https://www.answering-christianity.com/rebuttal_to_sam_shamoun_42_part2.htm

 

https://www.answering-christianity.com/rebuttal_to_sam_shamoun_42_part3.htm

 

As for false prophecies, visit this great article by brother Karim, showing a false prophecy put on the lips of Jesus in the Bible:

 

https://www.answering-christianity.com/karim/false_prophecies_in_the_bible.htm

 

 

He Wrote

 

One of the failed prophecies which I highlighted was taken from S. 30:1-4. Here is the alleged prophecy in question:

"The Roman Empire has been defeated - in a land close by: But they, (even) after (this) defeat of theirs, will soon be victorious - within a few years."

I have already noted why this prophecy is unimpressive and actually failed to transpire within the time frame stipulated by the Quran. For more details please consult the earlier article.

My Response

 

The event did transpire as the Quran said it would, a remarkable prophecy! Please visit my rebuttals which I posted, as you will see what a great prophecy this was, alongside other great prophecies.

 

He Wrote

 

Here, I would like to examine the prophecy from a different angle. This prophecy is a great example of how incoherent, incomplete and unintelligible the Quran truly is. The prophecy states that the Romans have been defeated in a land close by. Yet, we are not told who defeated them, when were they defeated, and where were they defeated.

 

My Response

 

Actually, there is nothing incoherent or incomplete here, you are just asking for useless information.

 

You say WHO defeated them, I say who cares?

 

You say WHEN where they defeated, obviously they were defeated around the time when this verse was revealed, common it does not take a genius to figure that out!

 

You say WHERE were they defeated, I say who cares where they were defeated! Does it really matter? Does it really matter if the Quran does not say who exactly and where exactly they were defeated? Of course not!

 

The Quran has given us enough valuable information, telling us that the Romans have been defeated, and that they have been defeated in a land close by, obviously referring to a land close by to Hijaz, and that in a few years the Romans will be victorious once again.

 

The main purpose of this verse is not to give a historical lesson to people, like that of the OT, the point of this verse was to make a PROPHECY that the Romans would be victorious after this defeat, that is the purpose of this verse, not a history class lesson telling us who did it, where they did it, and how many soldiers they had and giving us the family lineage of the generals and so on like the OT does. So this is exactly why these useless details were not given, because that was not the point of the verse!

 

In fact let us use this same kind of argumentation against Shamoun, for instance in the Bible it says:

 

Genesis 6:4

There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown

Who are these giants? Where in the earth where they? All it tells us that these giants were on earth, but where on earth? Are these giants humans? What kind of children did the giants have? Did they have giant kids? Did they have some different type of human kids? All these questions! Yet no answers!

 

He Wrote

 

Is the phrase a "land close by" directed towards the Muslims or the Romans? If one claims that it refers to the Muslims then this still leaves us with the problem of identifying the precise location of the land.

 

My Response

 

It is obvious a land close by is being directed to the Muslims, the Quran was revealed to the prophet Muhammad addressing him, so a land close by was referring to where he was.

 

And we know he was in Medina and Mecca, secondly, even if we did not know where he was located, who cares about the precise location?! I don’t understand, is it a big deal to have the precise location? The verse is a prophecy! Not a history or geographical lesson! The purpose of the verse was to make a prophecy, which happened.

 

Note what we have here, we have a prophecy in the Quran which did come to pass, yet Christians are arguing the verse is bad because the location of their defeat is not given!

 

This brings me back to my argument on the giants:

 

Genesis 6:4

There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown

Wow, what a precise location wouldn’t you say? The giants are on EARTH! How more precise can you get! At least the Quran said a land close by, the Bible leaves us guessing so much, since it says EARTH, which could be from anywhere from China to Hawaii!!!

 

He Wrote

If it is referring to the Romans themselves, then the land close by can refer to a land near either Turkey (Constantinople) or Rome. How does anyone know for certain?

 

My Response

It is not referring to the Romans, was the Quran revealed to a Roman man?! The land close by is referring to Muslims, a land close to the Muslims, the Romans have been defeated in a close land to the Muslims.

 

He Wrote

Second, who defeated the Romans and how does one know for certain?

 

My Response

Who cares about who defeated them? Does that matter?! The verse is a PROPHECY, not a historical lesson on who did it, where they did it, and their family lineage!

But, let us now take a history lesson, since that is what Sam Shamoun is asking for.

The Quran was revealed to the prophet Muhammad in the year 610, the first revelation came to him, this lasted approx 23 years till 633 ad. So what we have is the Quran being revealed from 610-633 ad. Now let us look at a time line, during 610-633, here is what we have from the time line for Romans:

 

http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/romans.html :

 

A time-line of the Roman empire

 

 

610: Heraclius I overthrows the tyrant Phocas and becomes emperor
614: the Persians (Sassanids) capture Jerusalem
614: the Visigoths reconquer all of Spain from the Roman empire
619: the Persians capture Egypt

619: the Persians capture Egypt
620: the Visigoths conquer the last Roman possession in Spain

 

So as we see, from 610 to 633 ad, the only defeats the Roman suffered from was against the Persians. Now the Quran was revealed during 610 to 622, so obviously any defeat regarding the Romans would obviously be at the hands of the Persians, so therefore when we look at the timing of the Quran’s revelation, and the timing of the Romans defeat, we are able to tell that the WHO defeated the Romans were the Persians.

However so, it must be said again, WHO CARES, who cares about who defeated them?! The Quran is not concerned about that! This verse was a PROPHECY, not a historical lesson.

 

He Wrote

Third, when was this "prophecy" given? Is it Pre-Hijrah or post-Hijrah?

 

My Response

Period of Revelation

The period of the revelation of this Surah is determined absolutely by the historical event that has been mentioned at the outset. It says: "The Romans have been vanquished in the neighboring land."In those days the Byzantine occupied territories adjacent to Arabia were Jordan, Syria and Palestine, and in these territories the Romans were completely overpowered by the Iranians in 615 A. D. Therefore, it can be said with absolute certainty that this Surah was sent down in the same year, and this was the year in which the migration to Habash took place. (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/maududi/mau30.html)

So it is obvious this verse was revealed when the Romans were defeated, it will not take a genius to figure this out! Put 2 and 2 together, the Romans have been defeated, the Quran mentions this, you just go look at the timing of this defeat and bingo there you go you have the date of this verse.

Again, the Quran was revealed between 610-633, the Romans defeat at the hands of the Persians in the near lands such as Palestine, Syria etc took place roughly between 614-615, so the verse was without a doubt also revealed during this time frame, Shamoun very well knows that he could have found all this information by doing this simple study.

 

He Wrote

Since the prophecy states that the Romans would be victorious within a few years, knowing the precise date of this alleged prophecy is an essential and integral part of verifying whether it came to pass or not.

My Response

Since we already know this verse was revealed roughly between the years 614-615, we must now look at when the Romans were victorious, so let us look at that time line again:

 

626: the Sassanids besiege Constantinople
627: the Sassanid king Khusrau II is defeated by Roman emperor Heraclius at Niniveh
628: the Romans retake Syria from the Sassanids

 

So as we see, the Romans are re-victorious between the year 627 to 628, which is roughly 12-14 years after their defeat. So the Quran is correct 100%, here is the verse:

030.002
YUSUFALI: The Roman Empire has been defeated-

 

030.003
YUSUFALI: In a land close by; but they, (even) after (this) defeat of theirs, will soon be victorious-

 

030.004
YUSUFALI: Within a few years. With Allah is the Decision, in the past and in the Future: on that Day shall the Believers rejoice-

 

So the Quran tells us the Romans have been defeated, which did happen, the Quran also tells us that the Romans would be victorious again after this defeat of theirs, WHICH HAPPENED. Hence we have a correct prophecy, the Quran said the Romans would have victory again, and this precisely happened! So what exactly are we arguing about? Or maybe this is a coincidence right?

 

He Wrote

 

The Quran fails to answer any of these questions. One must look for the answers elsewhere, to secondary sources which were compiled some 1-200 years after the death of Muhammad.

 

My Response

 

None of your questions even matter, again who cares about who and where they were defeated? Please I would love to know, because no one really cares unless your really biased against the Quran and Islam and simply want to come up with any argument. We have seen that the events happened just as the Quran said it would, and this you cannot refute.

 

Secondly, for the millionth time, the Quran is not a history book to talk about battles and give every single detail like the Bible, useless information that is, such as the Bible does telling us stories of battles and this and that which does not even do anything for you, and which does get very boring. Just go read the Old testament, you will feel very bored, and you will feel that you are reading the same thing over and over again, from Samuel to Ezekiel to Isaiah, it is as if you are reading the same story a dozen times, reading lots of useless information of the number of soldiers, the number of this and that which at the end of the day will not GIVE YOU SALVATION. The Quran is all about salvation, not stories of battles and every single thing a prophet does. This verse is a prophecy, a sign for the believers, a sign that the Quran is from God, it is not a historical lesson, nor a story, it is a SIGN!

Shamoun has written more information on his article, but they are all red-herrings since his article was to do with Surah al-Rum, his other information has nothing to do with this prophecy so it will be ignored and refuted in another separate article.

Finally, To show how weak Shamoun’s arguments really are, I end with an argument he put in the ending of his article:

7. Finally, can a Muslim show from the Quran alone how old was Muhammad when he became God's "prophet"? Can they show from the Quran alone how long did his prophetic career last or how many surahs were revealed to him?

Yes, I shall now leave Islam for Christianity because the Quran does not tell me the prophet Muhammad’s age! Hilarious!