Rebuttal to Sam Shamoun's article

Christian Analysis of Shabir Ally's Comments On:

JESUS IN CHRISTIANITY; JESUS IN ISLAM

Part two

 

By

 

 

 

 

 

 

We resume our discussion now by focusing on verses Sam Shamoun bring up to prove Jesus' divinity from the Gospel of Mark.  

 

 

He Wrote

 

Shabir:

 

In John's gospel Jesus makes the most significant and far-reaching claims about himself. There are many statements in this Gospel where Jesus asserts his own identity. He says:

 

I am the light of the world.

 

I am the resurrection and the life.

 

I am the way, the truth, and the life.

 

I and the Father are one.

 

Whoever has seen me has seen the Father.

 

If Jesus had said these things, the other gospels would have surely recorded them. But they did not, because he did not say these things. John recorded them because this was part of the later evolved story about Jesus.

 

Response:

Shabir fails to tell us why the writers would have included the statements of Jesus as recorded in John. He simply asserts things but fails to give us proof for these assertions.

 

Secondly, again Shabir does not allow for the possibility that John was supplementing the Synoptic Gospels by included material not covered by the evangelists. Yet, both Mark and John accurately reported the words Jesus uttered in different settings at different times.

 

 

My Response

 

When you have 4 supposed eye-witness accounts of events, and the 3 other accounts do not report things, while one does, logic will tell you that there is something strange about the odd one out.

 

 

 

He Wrote

 

Thirdly, both writers hold to a high Christology. Here are some examples from Mark where Jesus is clearly presented as the divine Son of God:

 

 

My Response

 

Let us see if these examples say what you say, something is telling me they wont.

 

 

 

He Wrote

 

Jesus is pictured as Yahweh with John as Yahweh's Messenger

 

"The beginning of the gospel about Jesus Christ, the Son of God. It is written in Isaiah the prophet: ‘I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way’-‘a voice of one calling in the desert, "Prepare the way for the Lord, make straight paths for him."’ And so John came, baptizing in the desert region and preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. The whole Judean countryside and all the people of Jerusalem went out to him. Confessing their sins, they were baptized by him in the Jordan River. John wore clothing made of camel's hair, with a leather belt around his waist, and he ate locusts and wild honey. And this was his message: After me will come one more powerful than I, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to stoop down and untie." Mark 1:1-7

 

John the Baptist came to prepare the way for Christ. Yet, according to Mark John was the messenger of Yahweh who was predicted to go ahead of the Lord to prepare for his coming. This implies that Jesus is Yahweh since John came to prepare the way for Christ. John also testifies that he is not worthy to even untie the thongs of Christ's sandal, implying that Christ is deserving of greater honor than the Baptist, as well as testifying that Christ is more powerful than he could ever be.

 

 

My Response

 

Notice that everything Shamoun quoted was not even Jesus speaking! Isn’t that a bit strange? Why should I even bother giving a reply to it? Jesus is not even speaking there, so it is irrelevant to me, however so, I will be fair and respond.

 

Shamoun seems to have 2 points from the verses, let us break down his two points:

 

1- John the Baptist came to make way for Jesus, the book of Isaiah says someone will come and make way for the lord, Shamoun believes all of this refers to Jesus, since John made the way for Jesus, making Jesus lord.

 

2- John the Baptist claims that Jesus is much powerful than him, and that he is not even worthy to untie his sandals.

 

Let us respond to point one.

 

Isaiah saying that a servant will make way for the lord does not have to be literal, as in literal I mean that the lord will not physically come and start preaching as a man. What it could mean, is that the Lord/God will be sending his messiah, his final last prophet to the Children of Israel. And as we all know, whenever God sends his prophet, he is always in their presence, assisting them and helping them with doctrine, and signs. Prepare the way for the Lord can easily mean that the Lord is sending his prophet, and a new revelation, so make way for him, for he is sending his prophet. And as Jesus taught, the kingdom of God is at hand, and Jesus was his prophet who was trying to make you enter this lovely kingdom.

 

Now as to the second point that John is not even worthy to untie Jesus' sandals and that Jesus is much more powerful than him, what exactly makes Jesus divine about this? Just because John the Baptist said it makes it true? He could have been simply complimenting Jesus and showing great respect towards Jesus that is all.

 

As we all know, Jesus is the last prophet to the children of Israel, and is their Messiah, in that sense Jesus has a bit more significance than John the Baptist. However so, what makes this a bit is interesting is that Jesus said there is no man greater than John! Since Jesus was a man this includes himself:

 

 

11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. (Matthew 11:11)

 

Note that Jesus says that no man who has been born of a women is greater than John the Baptist, this includes Jesus.

 

 

 

He Wrote

 

Jesus Performs Divine Functions

 

"I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit." Mark 1:8

 

Christ has the authority to baptize individuals with the Holy Spirit, a function the Old Testament attributes to Yahweh God:

 

"‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. You will live in the land I gave your forefathers; you will be my people, and I will be your God.’" Ezekiel 36:24-28

 

"‘You will have plenty to eat, until you are full, and you will praise the name of the LORD your God, who has worked wonders for you; never again will my people be shamed. Then you will know that I am in Israel, that I am the LORD your God, and that there is no other; never again will my people be shamed. And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions. Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days. I will show wonders in the heavens and on the earth, blood and fire and billows of smoke. The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD. And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the LORD has said, among the survivors whom the LORD calls.’" Joel 2:26-32

 

 

 

My Response

 

Shamoun tries to play a little trick on his readers here. Shamoun quotes John saying Jesus will baptize people with the Holy Spirit, and then quotes verses from the OT showing God pouring his spirit unto people. For starters, Shamoun is assuming the spirit being spoken about in the OT is the Holy Spirit, how does he come to this conclusion? Who knows?

 

Also note in the OT it shows God putting HIS spirit in the people, the verse from Mark does not show Jesus putting his spirit into anyone does it? Unless Jesus is the Holy Spirit? Now such a thought or statement would be considered blasphemy by Shamoun.

 

Secondly, just say the spirit is the Holy Spirit, so what? Just because God does something and Jesus does it does it make Jesus God? Such logic would be silly to say the least.

 

Thirdly, Jesus does only what the Father gave him, so if Jesus gave people the Holy Spirit, it was not divine on his part, because God the Father gave him this miracle, it was really the Father doing it, not Jesus:

 

John 17:6-8: 6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. 7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. 8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me

 

The Father gave Jesus everything, hence there is nothing divine about Jesus. If Jesus does all these amazing things on his own, then Christians would have a very strong case, but sadly they do not, so therefore they have NO CASE.

 

 

 

He Wrote

 

Jesus Has Authority To Forgive Sins

 

"… And they came, bringing to Him a paralytic, carried by four men... And Jesus seeing their faith said to the paralytic, ‘My son, your sins are forgiven.’ But there were some of the scribes sitting there and reasoning in their hearts, ‘Why does this man speak that way? He is blaspheming; who can forgive sins but God alone?’ And immediately Jesus, aware in His spirit that they were reasoning that way within themselves, said to them, ‘Why are you reasoning about these things in your hearts? Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, "Your sins are forgiven"; or to say, "Arise take up your pallet and walk"? But in order that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins’-He said to the paralytic-‘I say to you, rise, take up your pallet and go home.’ And he rose and immediately took up the pallet and went out in the sight of all; so that they were all amazed and were glorifying God, saying, ‘We have never seen anything like this.’" Mark 2:3, 5-12

 

The scribes correctly understood that for Jesus to claim that he could forgive sins meant that he was identifying himself as God. Instead of correcting their understanding, Jesus reinforces it by affirming his authority to both heal and forgive the paralytic. This is astonishingly reminiscent of what the OT attributes to Yahweh:

 

"Praise the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits-who forgives all your sins and heals all your diseases," Psalm 103:2-3

 

 

 

My Response

 

Astonishingly Shamoun cannot quote his own Bible in context, he quotes Jesus forgiving sins, and Jesus saying he has the authority to do so, what Shamoun fails to tell his readers is that the authority does not BELONG to Jesus, nor did he own it, he was GIVEN IT. Again this is what Jesus said:

 

John 17:6-8: 6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. 7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. 8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me

 

Jesus is given everything; this includes the power to forgive sin, if God gives

 

Jesus this great power who are you to say no it cannot be!!!!

 

Matthew 28:18: 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

 

So the authority was not his, so hence it is more proper for Shamoun to quote his book in context. I mean Shamoun does no justice to the Father, he makes it seem that Jesus is the owner of this power and authority, what a shame Shamoun has no respect to the real owner of this great authority.

 

 

 

He Wrote

 

Jesus is Lord Over the Sabbath

"Consequently, the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath." Mark 2:28

For Jesus to override Sabbath restrictions, claiming to have authority over it, meant that he was claiming Yahweh's authority for himself. Seeing that the Sabbath was instituted for the service of Yahweh meant that no one except Yahweh could override Sabbath regulations. (cf. Leviticus 2:23) Hence, Jesus does what God alone can do.

 

 

 

My Response

 

This is probably Sam Shamoun's favorite argument. In my debate with him on the topic is Jesus God, Shamoun time and time again brought this verse up, it was like the only thing he had to prove that Jesus was God.

 

There are 2 responses that could be given, the first one is as I said in my debate, Jesus being called the lord of the Sabbath is a title of honor given to him by God. As we know, Jesus was given several titles of honor in the Bible. Secondly, another reason why Jesus could also be given such a title is because Jesus was given all authority by the Father, so therefore due to that reason Jesus could have been called the lord of the Sabbath.

 

Now you could also examine this verse from another angle. The reason why Jesus could be called the lord of the Sabbath and override some Sabbath regulations is because the Sabbath was being abrogated. As the Quran tells us, Jesus came to abrogate some of the OT laws:

 

003.049
YUSUFALI: "And (appoint him) a messenger to the Children of Israel, (with this message): "'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah's leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by Allah's leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe;

003.050
YUSUFALI: "'(I have come to you), to attest the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (Before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear Allah, and obey me.

 

So Jesus overiding some Sabbath regulations was because God wanted to abrogate some of the rules of the Torah. Also since the Sabbath was being abrogated, there was nothing special about it anymore and Jesus could have been called the lord of the Sabbath which meant no significance at all since it was being abrogated and cancelled.

 

 

 

He Wrote

 

Jesus Has Authority Over Demons and Nature

 

"Just then a man in their synagogue who was possessed by an evil spirit cried out, ‘What do you want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are—the Holy One of God!’ ‘Be quiet!’ said Jesus sternly. ‘Come out of him!’ The evil spirit shook the man violently and came out of him with a shriek. The people were all so amazed that they asked each other, What is this? A new teaching—and with authority! He even gives orders to evil spirits and they obey him." Mark 1:23-27

 

During the time of Christ, it was believed that if demons knew a person's name they would be able to control him at will. Here, the demons knew Christ yet were utterly powerless in his presence. This implies that Jesus is all-powerful, exhibiting power that was unparalleled at his time. This is why the crowds were astonished that Christ had power over the demons and could make them obey him. Furthermore, the demons themselves admit that Christ had power to destroy them.

 

 

 

My Response

 

Once again Shamoun is going in circles, he claims that Jesus had authority over demons and so on, yet he forgets to mention who gave Jesus this authority! I am not going to quote the verses again, but I have already made it crystal clear, that God had given Jesus the power to perform several miracles, heal the blind, cast out demons and so on. Shamoun time and time again leaves this out; hence all he is doing is going in circles forgetting this most important fact.

 

Off course the demons would admit Jesus could destroy them, God gave him the power, and he was God's prophet, therefore he had this strength from God to destroy them, everyone knows this. There is nothing divine about what Jesus did, and Shamoun himself knows this, however so, Shamoun will always try to make every great thing Jesus did to seem divine. Just imagine what Christians would be saying about Jesus if he split the sea like Moses!

 

 

 

He Wrote

 

"Whenever the evil spirits saw him, they fell down before him and cried out, ‘You are the Son of God.’ But he gave them strict orders not to tell who he was." Mark 3:11-12

 

Here, we find even demons falling down in homage before the presence of the Son of God.

 

 

 

My Response

 

Just because the demons fell down before Jesus does not make him divine or anything special, and Shamoun himself knows this.

 

These demons were simply afraid of God's mighty prophet.

 

 

 

He Wrote

 

Once more we find the demons falling down in worship before Christ, confessing him as the Son of God and admitting that he has the power to destroy them.

 

"Leaving the crowd behind, they took him along, just as he was, in the boat. There were also other boats with him. A furious squall came up, and the waves broke over the boat, so that it was nearly swamped. Jesus was in the stern, sleeping on a cushion. The disciples woke him and said to him, ‘Teacher, don't you care if we drown?’ He got up, rebuked the wind and said to the waves, ‘Quiet! Be still!’ Then the wind died down and it was completely calm. He said to his disciples, ‘Why are you so afraid? Do you still have no faith?’ They were terrified and asked each other, ‘Who is this? Even the wind and the waves obey him!’" Mark 4:36-41

 

Again, Jesus' ability to control the waves and storms is remarkably reminiscent of what the OT says Yahweh can do:

 

"You answer us with awesome deeds of righteousness, O God our Savior, the hope of all the ends of the earth and of the farthest seas, who formed the mountains by your power, having armed yourself with strength, who stilled the roaring of the seas, the roaring of their waves, and the turmoil of the nations. Those living far away fear your wonders; where morning dawns and evening fades you call forth songs of joy. Psalm 65:5-8

 

"For he spoke and stirred up a tempest that lifted high the waves. They mounted up to the heavens and went down to the depths; in their peril their courage melted away. They reeled and staggered like drunken men; they were at their wits' end. Then they cried out to the LORD in their trouble, and he brought them out of their distress. He stilled the storm to a whisper; the waves of the sea were hushed. They were glad when it grew calm, and he guided them to their desired haven." Psalm 107:25-27

 

"Who has gone up to heaven and come down? Who has gathered up the wind in the hollow of his hands? Who has wrapped up the waters in his cloak? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and the name of his son? Tell me if you know!" Proverbs 30:4

 

 

 

My Response

 

Again circular arguments by Shamoun, Shamoun wants to make a big deal of Jesus controlling the wind and waves etc. Yet again Shamoun forgets that God gave him this power! So if Jesus did really control the wins and waves and so on, it is only because God gave him such a great power.

 

Secondly, Moses also controlled the sea when he split it, what will Shamoun or the Christians say? The Christians will now say 'but see that is different, because it was God who gave Moses the power, it wasn’t really Moses doing anything'. Exactly the same thing with Jesus!

 

 

 

He Wrote

 

Jesus' Name Is Sovereign

 

"John said to Him, ‘Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name, and we tried to hinder him because he was not following us.’ But Jesus said, ‘Do not hinder him, for there is no one who shall perform a miracle in My name, and be able soon afterward to speak evil of Me.’" Mark 9:38-39

 

Scripture clearly teaches that miracles occur solely through the power of God's name. Yet, we find that Jesus' name is capable of doing the very same thing. This is an implicit witness to the deity of Christ.

 

 

 

My Response

 

Jesus is God's mighty prophet, and indeed if you have faith in that, and believe that Jesus is from God and has powers from God, then you shall be able to do many mighty works since you have faith in Jesus as a mighty prophet of God.

 

Secondly, when Jesus cast out demons or did any mighty miracle, he would ask and do it in the Father's name, not his own name, so Jesus is not divine at all. Those men who did miracles in Jesus' name, simply believed he was a mighty messenger of God, and had faith that he was from God, and that God gave him great powers, so thanks to their faith they were able to do those great works. Shamoun is going circular again, because he forgets those men, the believing men DID NOT believe Jesus was God, instead they believed he was a mighty man sent by God.

 

 

 

He Wrote

 

Jesus is the Unique Son of God and Divine Heir

 

"And He began to speak to them in parables: ‘A man PLANTED A VINEYARD, AND PUT A WALL AROUND IT, AND DUG A VAT UNDER the wind press, and built a TOWER, and rented it out to vine-growers and went on a journey. And at harvest time he sent a slave to the vine-growers, in order to receive some of the produce of the vineyard from the vine-growers. And they took him, and beat, and sent him away empty-handed. And again he sent them another slave, and they wounded him in the head, and treated him shamefully. And he sent another, and that one they killed; and so with many others, beating some, and killing others. He had one more to send, a beloved son; he sent him last of all to them, saying, "They will respect my son." But those vine-growers said to one another, "This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and the inheritance will be ours!" And they took him, and killed him, and threw him out of the vineyard’... And they (chief priest, scribes, and elders) were seeking to seize Him; and yet they feared the multitude; for they understood that He spoke the parable against them. And so they left Him, and went away." Mark 12:1-8, 12

 

In this parable, the Owner represents God with the vineyard representing Jerusalem (cf. Isaiah 5:1-7). The vine-growers represent the ruling Jewish class, and the slaves represent the prophets of God. Jesus' view of himself is not that of a slave, but the Owner's beloved Son and heir of the estate. This clearly affirms that Jesus felt that he was more than a prophet and believed that he was greater than the rest of the prophets who were simply servants of God.

 

Jesus also implicitly affirms his preexistence, since as the Son he was already present with the Father prior to his being sent to the vine-growers.

 

 

 

My Response

Being a son of God means servant of God, there is nothing unique or divine about being called the son of God.

 

Secondly, the parable does not make sense, why would the owner send his son, and not himself? Does it make sense to keep on sending his slaves who get beaten and killed, and then send your son who also gets beat and killed? No, that does not make any sense what so ever. Why did not the owner protect his son? Or why did he not come with his Son?

 

Also, another problem with this parable is that it shows that God was wrong, note the parable states:

 

He had one more to send, a beloved son; he sent him last of all to them, saying, "They will respect my son." But those vine-growers said to one another, "This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and the inheritance will be ours!" And they took him, and killed him, and threw him out of the vineyar

 

Note the master says they will respect my son, but as we see, they did not respect his son, and simply did the same thing to him as they did to the other people he sent, so therefore God is wrong if we want to accept this parable.

Now the only reason Jesus may have viewed himself different than the other prophets, and laid some more significance on himself is because he was the FINAL and LAST prophet to be sent unto the children of Israel, and he was their messiah.

 

So this parable is not a very good example at all.

 

 

 

He Wrote

 

Jesus is the Divine Son of Man

 

"… Again the high priest was questioning Him, saying to Him, ‘Are You the Christ, The Son of the Blessed One?’ And Jesus said, ‘I am; and you shall see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING WITH THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN.’" Mark 14:61-62

 

Christ claims to be the Son of Man of Daniel 7:13-14 who was given divine authority to rule forever, with the nations serving him perpetually.

 

 

 

My Response

 

How does that make Jesus divine? To be sitting on the right hand of God does not make you divine, and everyone knows this!

Also if you go read daniel7:13-14 you will see there is nothing divine about Jesus, since the one who is spoken of in Daniel will be GIVEN power and so on, a divine being is not given power, so hence Daniel does not help Shamoun what so ever!

 

 

 

He Wrote

Jesus Is David's Lord

 

"And Jesus answering them began to say, as He taught in the temple, ‘How is it that the scribes say that the Christ is the son of David? David himself said in the Holy Spirit, "The Lord said to my Lord, ‘Sit at My right hand, until I put Thine enemies beneath Thy feet.’" David himself calls Him "Lord"; and so in what sense is He his son?’ …" Mark 12:35-37

 

The only way for the Messiah to be both the son of David and his Lord is if he were both divine and human at the same time.

 

 

My Response

 

http://answering-christianity.com/psalm110_1_rebuttal.htm

http://jewsforjudaism.org/web/faq/faq059.html

 

 

 

He Wrote

 

Jesus is the Judge of the Nations

 

"If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his Father's glory with the holy angels." Mark 8:38

 

Christ claims that he will come again in his Father's glory with the angels in judgment against those who have denied him.

 

"At that time men will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens." Mark 13:26-27

 

Christ once again claims that he will return at the consummation of the age to gather God's people. Interestingly, Christ states that both the elect and the angels are his (i.e. "his angels", "his elect"). This is an astonishing claim since no prophet or angel can say this seeing that the angels and the elect belong to God alone, being God's creation and possession.

 

 

 

My Response

 

Let us quote the passages Shamoun brings up:

 

If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his Father's glory with the holy angels." Mark 8:38

 

Where does Jesus say he will judge anyone in those verses? All it says is when Jesus returns, that any of the people who were ashamed of him, the Jesus will also be ashamed of that unbeliever. Jesus here is talking about his own people, the people he was sent to, note he calls them adulterous sinful generation, this term is referring to the children of Israel, not MANKIND, here is more proof:

 

38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. 39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas (Matthew 12:38-39)

As we see, a Jew came up to Jesus asking for a sign, and he said an evil adulterous nation look for a sign, obviously refering to the Jews, the children of Israel.

 

So any of the Jews who were ashamed of Jesus then Jesus will also be ashamed of them.

 

The next verse Shamoun quotes is:

 

"At that time men will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens." Mark 13:26-27

 

I do not see Jesus judging anyone here; Shamoun is simply making this stuff up!

 

 

 

He Wrote

 

God Testifies That Christ Is His Divine Son

 

"At that time Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan. As Jesus was coming up out of the water, he saw heaven being torn open and the Spirit descending on him like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: ‘You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.’" Mark 1:9-11

 

 

 

My Response

 

Where does the text call Jesus the divine son of God? WHERE. I do no see it; once again Shamoun is making things up.

 

 

 

He Wrote

 

This passage is actually Trinitarian in nature since we find the Father, Son and Holy Spirit together in one place.

 

"After six days Jesus took Peter, James and John with him and led them up a high mountain, where they were all alone. There he was transfigured before them. His clothes became dazzling white, whiter than anyone in the world could bleach them. And there appeared before them Elijah and Moses, who were talking with Jesus. Peter said to Jesus, ‘Rabbi, it is good for us to be here. Let us put up three shelters—one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah.’ (He did not know what to say, they were so frightened.) Then a cloud appeared and enveloped them, and a voice came from the cloud: ‘This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to him!’" Mark 9:2-7

 

Not only does God testify that Jesus is his beloved Son, but commands the disciples to obey his Son!

 

 

My Response

 

How does obeying Jesus make him divine? I have no idea, EVERY SINGLE PROPHET MUST BE OBEYED BY HIS PEOPLE. Even the Muslims were commanded to obey the prophet Muhammad!

 

As for the verse being a trinity verse, that is your own desire and wish, you cannot even prove Jesus is God! So what trinity are you talking about?

 

 

 

He Wrote

 

Craig Blomberg highlights the similarities between the Synoptics and John's Christology:

 

"On the other hand, the Synoptics implicitly present a portrait of Jesus from which one could surely derive the more explicit claims of John. It is Matthew and Luke who describe the Virgin Birth. All three Synoptics (like John) have Jesus calling himself the Son of Man, which, notwithstanding protracted debate as to its origin, almost certainly harks back to the human figure of Daniel 7:13-14, who is nevertheless present in God's divine throne-room receiving universal authority and an everlasting kingdom. The Jesus of the Synoptics also accepts worship (Matt 14:33), forgives sins (Mark 2:5), announces that people's final destinies will be based on their response to him (Mark 8:38; Luke 12:8-10), and applies metaphors to himself, particularly in parables, that in the Old Testament are often applied to Yahweh (Lord of the harvest, shepherd, sower, vineyard owner, bridegroom, rock, etc.)." (Jesus Under Fire, p. 39)

 

 

 

My Response

 

And none of what Blomberg uses from Mark proves that Jesus is divine.

 

 

 

He Wrote

 

This should serve to quench the assertion that Mark and the other Synoptic Gospels have a lower Christology than that of John.

 

 

 

My Response

 

They most certainly do, you brought nothing from Mark that showed Jesus is divine. However so, you will also not be able to bring anything from John which proves Jesus is divine.

 

This shall end part 2 of the rebuttal.

 

I would also like to remind the reader that the topic of this discussion is who is the real Jesus? The Jesus of Christianity or the Jesus of Islam. So far we have seen that the Jesus of Islam is the true version, while the Jesus of Christianity does not exist, by saying that I mean the Jesus the Christians tell us about, is found no where in the Gospels. When we read the Gospels as we have just done, we find Jesus never makes any divine statements, instead we see he relies on God for help, just as the Quran tells us. We also see that he is the messiah and prophet of God, just as the Quran tells us. Hence we have seen nothing yet to refute the Jesus of Islam.