Rebuttal to Sam Shamoun's article

Islam And Wine Consumption

 Examining Muslim Arguments against The Bible
in light of Islam’s Gradual Prohibition of Wine Consumption

 

By

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://./Shamoun/wine_consumption.htm

 

In this rebuttal of mine I will simply respond to the ending of Shamoun's article, since much of what he says in the rest is basically very similar to this rebuttal of mine, and have already been addressed:

 

 http://answering-christianity.com/rebuttal_to_sam_shamoun_48.htm

 

 

He Wrote

 

ith the foregoing in mind we highlight some of the key essential points of comparison between the Holy Bible and the Quran:

 

   1. Muslim sources assert that Allah initially permitted the consumption of alcohol. This means that the Muslim attacks on the permissibility of wine consumption in the Holy Bible is a ruse. It is nothing more than a Muslim smokescreen, another way of unjustly criticizing the Holy Bible for a matter which can be used more forcefully against the Quran and Islam. After all, if Allah disliked alcohol that much why didn’t he simply prohibit it from the very beginning? Seeing that he didn’t prohibit it right away, then on what grounds do Muslims attack the Holy Bible for not forbidding wine altogether?

 

   2. According to Islamic tradition Allah slowly and gradually prohibited alcohol due to the repeated questions of Muslims such as Umar who wanted to know the exact verdict of intoxicants. Again, why didn’t Allah reveal to the Muslims that alcoholic consumption was altogether forbidden? Why did he only gradually prohibit its use and consumption?

 

   3. It is also interesting to note that Allah’s initial position on intoxicants was so unclear that Umar had to repeatedly ask for further clarification until Allah prohibited it completely. Again, why make the issue of intoxicants so vague as to leave Muslims such as Umar unclear over this issue, when simply saying that intoxicants were altogether forbidden would have been a much better way of preventing Umar’s confusion?

 

   4. Other traditions state that Allah prohibited alcohol only after Muslims were getting drunk and embarrassing themselves. For instance, Muslims went to prayers so drunk that they started reciting prayers in an incorrect and embarrassing manner. And even after this incident Allah still didn’t prohibit the drinking of intoxicants, but only prevented the Muslims from getting drunk before prayer times. Still others said that surah 4:43 was "sent down" as a result of a group of Muslims physically attacking each other after getting drunk.

 

 

 

My Response

 

1- This is a logical fallacy on your part, the Quran unlike your Bible forbids alcohol, and yes the Quran did not forbid alcohol at the start. The reason why the Quran gradually prohibited alcohol is because it’s not easy to let go of alcohol, just ask that to the people who drink it, especially heavy drinkers, and the Arabs were very heavy drinkers, and so it would be impossible for them completely stop drinking alcohol at once. The Bible no where prohibits alcohol or wine consumption, hence there is a big difference between the two, the Quran had a specific reason in gradually ending alcohol, and not ending it at once. Here is a brief analysis of alcohol addiction:

 

http://www.alcohol-addiction.org/

 

 

 

UNDERSTANDING ALCOHOL ADDICTION

 

 

 

Alcohol is known to man as one of the oldest addictions there is.

 

 

 

The University of Amsterdam and the Leiden University conducted a study in 2002 and concluded that a person’s ability to function normally is effected after even one drink.

 

 

 

Alcohol addiction is a road of destruction for an individual suffering through alcohol addiction.

 

TWO PROBLEMS, ONE ADDICTION.

 

 

 

This is not a mysterious brain disease.  People begin drinking to solve some perceived problem or problems in his or her life and before they realize it there’s a dependency and an addiction. Alcohol dependence and addiction originates from the continued use of alcohol to combat the perceived problems. Either a physical and/or an emotional dependence causes addiction.

 

 

 

By the time reality kicks in the alcohol addiction is a greater problem than the original problem or problems the alcohol was suppose to solve.

 

 

 

Now the result is there are two problems for the person to deal with:  Number one is the possibly forgotten original problem and number two is the new found alcoholism to contend with.

 

ONE SOLUTION SOLVES BOTH PROBLEMS WITH TREMENDOUS SUCCESS!

 

 

 

Getting someone to stop drinking is not a simple matter of someone having self-control or self-discipline as many people think.  Only one of the problems is a persons ability to quit drinking but the combination of the original problem that started the drinking and the added problem within the addiction to stop drinking makes the endeavor seem impossible.

 

 

 

Overcoming these real life problems with real life solutions is an essential component to a successful rehabilitation. The right tools and life skills to surpass common barriers encountered by people on a daily basis are necessary for beating the addiction long-term.  In order for those suffering through any type of addiction they must be able to apply these tools to their every day lives consistently.

 

 

 

For an alcoholic to become a happy, healthy, and productive member of society both the drinking problem and the underlying reasons for it have to be solved.

 

So this is why the Quran did not prohibit alcohol at once. God knows everything, he is very smart, he knows human nature, he knows that people would not let go of alcohol at once, it would be near to impossible. Had God simply banned alcohol at once, that would be wrong, and that would be a false god who doesnt know what he’s doing. Allah gradually prohibted alcohol, which is the right thing to do, go ask anybody who is working in the fields of curing alcohol addiction.

 

Also how can these arguments be used more forcefully against the Quran? I respectfully disagree with that statement of yours; the Quran prohibits alcohol does it not? Yes. Does the Bible prohibit alcohol? No. So no, these arguments cannot be used against the Muslims more forcefully since our book bans alcohol, yours doesn’t.

 

2- Allah did not forbid alcohol at once because people who face alcohol addiction, cannot simply stop drinking at once. It takes time, and you have to gradually end it, this is what God did. This is how you end alcohol consumption, gradually, not immediately. Go ask any person with knowledge in the field of countering alcohol addiction, they will completely disagree with anyone who says stop drinking alcohol at once is the right way to stop alcohol consumption, the right way to stop it is to gradually stop it. So point 2 really means nothing, it just proves the Quran is the word of God, had the Quran simply said, stop drinking at once, that would be wrong, the fact it does not shows the Quran is a true book.

 

3- As for point 3, this doesnt mean much to, this is simply one man who was not clear on what to do, so does that really mean anything? Allah gradually ended alcohol because that is how you do it, that is the right way, whether Umar gets confused by it is irrelevant, God does what he has to do, and he did the right thing in the way he prohibits alcohol. Also are you telling me, that Allah should simply do something, which could be wrong just so people don’t get confused? No, that is not how it works. It is very clear as to why Allah did not prohibit alcohol at once, which is due to the fact that it is too hard for the people to simply stop drinking, especially heave drinkers like the Arabs. Hence Allah gradually ended it, if Umar got confused, then so be it, that does not really reflect badly upon the Quran nor Allah and his laws.

 

4- Point 4 does not really mean much neither, all it shows is that Allah gradually prohibited alcohol which is the right thing to do, the right thing to do is not to prohibit alcohol at once, since that would fail.

 

 

 

 

He Wrote

 

Another example of a Muslim humiliating himself as a result of being drunk was Hamza, Muhammad's uncle and foster-brother from wet-nursing:

 

    Narrated Ali:

    I got a she-camel in my share of the war booty on the day (of the battle) of Badr, and the Prophet had given me a she-camel from the Khumus. When I intended to marry Fatima, the daughter of Allah's Apostle, I had an appointment with a goldsmith from the tribe of Bani Qainuqa' to go with me to bring Idhkhir (i.e. grass of pleasant smell) and sell it to the goldsmiths and spend its price on my wedding party. I was collecting for my she-camels equipment of saddles, sacks and ropes while my two she-camels were kneeling down beside the room of an Ansari man. I returned after collecting whatever I collected, to see the humps of my two she-camels cut off and their flanks cut open and some portion of their livers was taken out. When I saw that state of my two she-camels, I could not help weeping. I asked, "Who has done this?" The people replied, "Hamza bin Abdul Muttalib who is staying with some Ansari drunks in this house." I went away till I reached the Prophet and Zaid bin Haritha was with him. The Prophet noticed on my face the effect of what I had suffered, so the Prophet asked. "What is wrong with you?" I replied, "O Allah's Apostle! I have never seen such a day as today. Hamza attacked my two she-camels, cut off their humps, and ripped open their flanks, and he is sitting there in a house in the company of some drunks." The Prophet then asked for his covering sheet, put it on, and set out walking followed by me and Zaid bin Haritha till he came to the house where Hamza was. He asked permission to enter, and they allowed him, and they were drunk. Allah's Apostle started rebuking Hamza for what he had done, but Hamza was drunk and his eyes were red. Hamza looked at Allah's Apostle and then he raised his eyes, looking at his knees, then he raised up his eyes looking at his umbilicus, and again he raised up his eyes look in at his face. Hamza then said, "Aren't you but the slaves of my father?" Allah's Apostle realized that he was drunk, so Allah's Apostle retreated, and we went out with him. (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 53, Number 324)

 

    Narrated 'Ali:

    I had a she-camel which I got in my share from the booty of the battle of Badr, and the Prophet had given me another she camel from the Khumus which Allah had bestowed on him that day. And when I intended to celebrate my marriage to Fatima, the daughter of the Prophet, I made an arrangement with a goldsmith from Bani Qainuqa 'that he should go with me to bring Idhkhir (i.e. a kind of grass used by gold-smiths) which I intended to sell to gold-smiths in order to spend its price on the marriage banquet. While I was collecting ropes and sacks of pack saddles for my two she-camels which were kneeling down beside an Ansari's dwelling and after collecting what I needed, I suddenly found that the humps of the two she-camels had been cut off and their flanks had been cut open and portions of their livers had been taken out. On seeing that, I could not help weeping. I asked, "Who has done that?" They (i.e. the people) said, "Hamza bin 'Abdul Muttalib has done it. He is present in this house with some Ansari drinkers, a girl singer, and his friends. The singer said in her song, 'O Hamza, get at the fat she-camels!' On hearing this, Hamza rushed to his sword and cut of the camels' humps and cut their flanks open and took out portions from their livers." Then I came to the Prophet, with whom Zaid bin Haritha was present. The Prophet noticed my state and asked, "What is the matter?" I said, "O Allah's Apostle, I have never experienced such a day as today! Hamza attacked my two she-camels, cut off their humps and cut their flanks open, and he is still present in a house along some drinkers." The Prophet asked for his cloak, put it on, and proceeded, followed by Zaid bin Haritha and myself, till he reached the house where Hamza was. He asked the permission to enter, and he was permitted. The Prophet started blaming Hamza for what he had done. Hamza was drunk and his eyes were red. He looked at the Prophet then raised his eyes to look at his knees and raised his eves more to look at his face and then said, "You are not but my father's slaves." When the Prophet understood that Hamza was drunk, he retreated, walking backwards went out and we left with him. (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 340)

 

How much better would it have been for Allah to have completely prohibited intoxicants right from the get-go. Yet by failing to prevent Muslims from consuming intoxicants altogether, and only gradually prohibiting it, Allah allowed for Muslims such as Hamza to humiliate themselves in such shameful and embarrassing ways.

 

 

 

 

My Response

 

This is not a very good argument on your part, since the Quran did eventually prohibit alcohol. Your book the Bible does not prohibit alcohol, hence your God still allows people to humiliate themselves, and embarrass themselves in very shameful ways. So how much better would it be for your God, to just ban alcohol? How come your God doesn’t ban it? So hence this argument you raise is not a very good one, because it can and is being used more forcefully against you. At the end of the day, the Quran prohibits alcohol, your Bible doesn’t.

 

Now even if you disagree in the way the Quran prohibited alcohol, that doesn’t mean much neither, because the Quran still prohibited alcohol, whether Christians like the way in which it is done is irrelevant.  

 

 

 

 

He Wrote

 

   5. Muslims like to argue that this slow and gradual prohibition was necessary since it wouldn't have been fair or possible for people who were addicted to drinking to simply quit overnight. Aside from the fact that this method still didn't entirely solve the problem of alcoholism, Muslims fail to realize how unfair this gradual progression truly is for others. After all, neither Muslim scholars nor those seeking to implement Islamic law will allow for the gradual abandonment of intoxicants. Anyone converting to Islam must immediately forsake all consumption of intoxicants since those verses which allowed for drinking have been abrogated by the outright prohibition of alcoholic drinks. Where is the fairness in that? Why was it permitted for the first generation of Muslims to slowly come off of drinking whereas all subsequent generations of converts must not drink at all, even if they may happen to be addicted to alcohol and might find it hard to just give it up instantaneously?

 

 

 

 

My Response

 

To begin with, Shamoun's question is a major fallacy for several reasons, this is what he stated:

 

After all, neither Muslim scholars nor those seeking to implement Islamic law will allow for the gradual abandonment of intoxicants. Anyone converting to Islam must immediately forsake all consumption of intoxicants since those verses which allowed for drinking have been abrogated by the outright prohibition of alcoholic drinks. Where is the fairness in that?

 

To begin with, if those alcohol-addicted people are converting to Islam, then they very well know that in Islam alcohol is prohibited. No one is forcing them to convert now are they? If those alcohol addicted people enter Islam, then this means they are aware of the prohibition of alcohol, and hence they very well accept it.

 

Secondly, everyone knows that people who are facing alcoholic problems have a reason behind it, some personal issue, something that is not right in their life. And the only way to get rid of this alcoholic problem is to finally fix your life, to finally get clean, get what you were looking for, once you have done that, your problem goes away. Many of the people who work in the alcohol field agree with this. So hence, Islam is their way out! Islam is what they have been searching for, Islam is what they know and feel will finally help them personally, and once you get that, once you fix this major problem up, it becomes easy to get rid of the alcohol addiction. So hence again, there is no un-fairness on the converts, because Islam is what helps them, Islam is what they have been searching for, they finally fixed their life up with Islam, hence the alcohol problem easily fades.

 

Thirdly, people who enter Islam, don’t just enter at once, they GRADUALLY enter Islam. They study it, they examine it, they see its rules, and they see if they can become committed to it. Hence if you are an alcohol addicted person, you will gradually study Islam, and you will gradually grasp its rules and so on. Once you study Islam and see it forbids alcohol, and since you want to become Muslim, this will mean you will gradually have to stop drinking alcohol, and once you do that you then take your shahada. It's not like some people simply look at Islam and say, yah thats nice, I want it. No, they study it, gradually over time, even years until they finally convert. So hence they gradually learn Islam, which also allows them to gradually put an end to alcohol.

 

Fourthly, just say the person enters Islam and is still addicted to alcohol, well then this is no different than any other believer who commits sins. They will eventually have to get rid of this sinful act, and God will forgive them. I am also sure a sheikh will help them solve this crisis and wont just abandon the person.

 

So hence nothing is really unfair.