Rebuttal to James Arlandson's article

Torture in the Quran and early Islam

Where is Islamic justice and human rights?

By

 

 

http://./Authors/Arlandson/torture.htm

Before venturing off into James article, I would first like to mention his title, where he says:  

 

Where is Islamic justice and human rights?

 

 

Basically James means there is Islamic justice and Islam does not guarantee human rights, and if it does, then it does to the very minimum. What makes such comments amusing is that if one wants to read a book where human rights are violated one has to look no further than the Bible in which James puts his faith in!

 

Here are a few examples:

 

Ezekiel 9:5-7

"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told."


Tell me James were is the human rights and justice for these people which include little girls! I wonder what James will have to say to this.

 

There is more:

 

Isaiah 13:15-18

 

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children.

 

Tell me James where is the human rights and justice for these women and children? The women are being raped! And the little children are getting killed infront of their eyes. So they kill the kids in front of the familly, then rape the wives/mothers. If James or any other Christian even tries to defend this filth then they are even more sick than their own Bible and they have no place in humanity and they can go to hell! What sort of sick person would defend such filth? This un-holy book belongs in the garbage bin.

 

Exodus 21:20-21

 

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property

 

 

So note you only get punished if the slave dies, if the slave does not die then there is no punishment, basically what this means is that you can beat your slave as hard and as much as you want to, just make sure the slave doesnt die! Where is the human rights and justice for these slaves James? I would love it if you could show me where.

 

I can quote much more bad things and violations of human rights in the Bible, but that shall do, for readers who want to get more information on the sick brutal ness and filth in the Bible then go to these links:

 

http://answering-christianity.com/terrorinthebible.htm

http://answering-christianity.com/book_with_no_limits.htm

http://answering-christianity.com/pauls_strange_law.htm

http://answering-christianity.com/rebuttal_to_james3.htm

http://answering-christianity.com/rebuttaltomattslick2.htm

http://answering-christianity.com/rebuttal_to_sam_shamoun_47.htm

http://answering-christianity.com/rebuttal_to_quennal_gale_1.htm

http://answering-christianity.com/quennel_gale_rebuttal_2.htm

http://answering-christianity.com/continuation_to_quennals_response.htm

 

 

 

 

James Wrote

 

The Quran in Sura 5:33 says:

 

5:33 Those who wage war against God and His Messenger and strive to spread corruption in the land should be punished by death, crucifixion, the amputation of an alternate hand and foot or banishment from the land: a disgrace for them in this world, and then a terrible punishment in the Hereafter . . . . (MAS Abdel Haleem, The Qur’an, Oxford UP, 2004)

 

It is important to realize that this verse comes in a legal context; Muhammad is laying down the law. The verse is not a parable or an illustration. It is intended to be carried out in real life, and it was then and it is today

 

 

 

My Response

 

It is funny how James simply brushes the verse aside and merely wants to concentrate on the punishment, rather than looking at why such a punishment is given, let me quote the verse again this time indicating the important part of the verse:

 

005.033

YUSUFALI: The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;

 

This is what James conveniently wants to forget about. What greater sin is there than those who wage war against God and his prophet! This is one of the greatest sins you can do, and just go read the OT and see what the God of James did to his enemies who opposed him, he killed their children, their women, and had the women raped!

 

So hence it is their own fault for waging war against God, his prophet, and spreading corruption through the land therefore the criminal and enemy of God are rightly punished. Nothing wrong with that, and if James does have a problem with it then he should go complain to his own God as well.

 


James Wrote

 

In early AD 628, during a raid, Zayd, Muhammad’s freedman and adopted son, was wounded and some of his men were killed by a tribe. Zayd vowed to abstain from sex until he took revenge. After Zayd recovered from his wounds, Muhammad sent him and a raiding band back to the tribe. An old woman named Umm Qirfa was taken prisoner. Would a Muslim leader spare her from death, not to mention from torturing her? No. Her death was cruel, says an Islamic source, matter-of-factly.

 

The executioner appointed by Zayd "tied each of her legs with a rope and tied the ropes to camels, and they split her in two." (Tabari)

 

 

 

 

My Response

 

Note how this coward cannot quote the whole incident, I wonder why? What do you have to hide James? Well once again let me expose you:

 

In this year a raiding party led by Zayd b. Harithah set out against Umm Qirfah in the month of Ramadan. During it, Umm Qirfah (Fatimah bt. Rabi‘ah b. Badr) suffered a cruel death. He tied her legs with rope and then tied her between two camels until they split her in two. She was a very old woman.

 

Her story is as follows. According to Ibn Humayd – Salamah – Ibn Ishaq – ‘Abdallah b. Abi Bakr, who said: The Messenger of God sent Zayd b. Harithah to Wadi al-Qura, where he encountered the Banu Fazarah. Some of his companions were killed there, and Zayd was carried away wounded from among the slain. One of those killed was Ward b. ‘Amr, one of the Banu Sa‘d b. Hudhaym: he was killed by one of the Banu Badr [b. Fazarah]. When Zayd returned, he vowed that no washing [to cleanse him] from impurity should touch his head until he had raided the Fazarah. After he recovered from his wounds, the Messenger of God sent him with an army against the Banu Fazarah. He met them in Wadi al-Qura and inflicted causalities on them. Qays b. al-Musahhar al-Ya‘muri killed Mas‘adah b. Hakamah b. Malik b. Badr and took Umm Qirfah prisoner. (Her name was Fatimah bt. Rabi‘ah b. Badr. She was married to Malik b. Hudhayfah b. Badr. She was a very old woman.) He also took one of Umm Qirfah’ daughters and ‘Abdallah b. Mas‘adah prisoner. Zayd b. Harithah ordered Qays to kill Umm Qirfah, and he killed her cruelly. He tied each of her legs with a rope and tied the ropes to two camels, and they split her in two. Then they brought Umm Qirfah’s daughter and ‘Abdallah b. Mas‘adah to the Messenger of God. Umm Qirfah’s daughter belonged to Salamah b. ‘Amr b. al-Akwa‘, who had taken her - she was a member of a distinguished family among her people: the Arabs used to say, "Had you been more powerful than Umm Qirfah, you could have done no more." The Messenger of God asked Salamah for her, and Salamah gave her to him. He then gave her to his maternal uncle, Hazn b. Abi Wahb and she bore him ‘Abd al-Rahman b. Hazn. (The History of Al-Tabari: The Victory of Islam, translated b Michael Fishbein [State University of New York Press (SUNY), Albany 1997], Volume VIII, pp. 95-97)

 

So note it was not the prophet Muhammad who ordered this execution, it was ZAID!!!!!!! Secondly, even Zaid who had ordered the execution did not order the old lady to be killed in such a manner anyway.

 

Now we know why this coward couldn’t quote the whole story, he even himself knows he has no argument which is why he then says:

 

It may be argued that Muhammad himself did not order this torture, but that misses the point.

 

Oh really? How exactly does it miss the point? The prophet didn’t order it, case closed, the fact that you could not quote the entire story shows you were too afraid to since you knew it would blow your whole cover! At least if you quoted the whole story people would have seen that you were sincere, the fact you did not shows you are not sincere, and wanted to give a miss-leading impression which you now try to easily brush aside like yah who cares if the prophet Muhammad didn’t order it. Give me a break James.

 

James then starts ranting about slavery and women captives of war, which has all already been dealt with, just visit these links:

 

http://answering-christianity.com/umar/slave_girls.htm

http://answering-christianity.com/karim/no_rape_of_female_slaves.htm

http://answering-christianity.com/bassam_zawadi/can_muslim_men_rape_their_slave_girls.htm

https://www.answering-christianity.com/equality.htm


So stop repeating old out-dates arguments James, you can repeat them over and over again, yet it doesn’t make them true or correct even after you keep repeating yourself 50 times in a row.

 

 

 

 

James Wrote

 

Then he ordered for [sic] nails which were heated and [the tribesmen] were branded with those nails, their eyes, and they were left in the Harra (i.e. rocky land in Al-Madina). And when they asked for water, no water was given them till they died . . . . (Bukhari, Book of Jihad, no. 3018; cf. online source)

 

Though this passage is awkwardly translated, it is one of many that should shock everyone of a sound mind.

 

HE ALSO SAYS

 

Muhammad conquered Khaybar in AD 628 (only a few months after the gruesome deaths of Umm Qirfa and the Arab tribesmen), but in AD 625, he had besieged and exiled the Jewish tribe of Nadir in Medina. They immigrated to Khaybar to the north. Now Muhammad wanted their treasure, not to mention the entire city.

 

Ibn Ishaq the biographer writes about the torture of the treasurer, to extract information:

 

Kinana b. al-Rabi, who had custody of the treasure of B. al-Nadir, was brought to the apostle [Muhammad] who asked him about it. He denied that he knew where it was.

 

Then Muhammad finds some of the treasure:

 

A Jew came to the apostle and said that he had seen Kinana going around a certain ruin every morning, early. When the apostle said to Kinana, "Do you know that if we find you have it, I shall kill you?" he said Yes. The apostle gave orders that the ruin was to be excavated and some of the treasure was found.

 

Here is the torture that Muhammad permitted:

 

When he [Muhammad] asked him about the rest, he refused to produce it, so the apostle gave orders . . . "Torture him until you extract what he has," so [the torturer] kindled a fire with flint and steel on his chest until he was nearly dead.

 

 

 

My Response

 

Same old same arguments, there will be no need for me to respond as my brother in Islam Bassam Zawadi has already written articles on these specific incidents:

 

https://www.answering-christianity.com/bassam_zawadi/was_prophet_muhammad_unfair.htm

https://www.answering-christianity.com/bassam_zawadi/counter_rebuttal_to_people_of_ukl.htm

http://answering-christianity.com/bassam_zawadi/people_of_ukl_3.htm

 

AND ON KINANA

 

http://answering-christianity.com/bassam_zawadi/rebuttal_to_silas_on_kinana.htm

 

Now James earlier stated:

 

it is one of many that should shock everyone of a sound mind.

 

James said this after reading a hadith in which the prophet punished some criminals. If that hadiths did shock James, then will James be fair enough that this verse from his Bible is both shocking and disgusting:

 

Isaiah 13:15-18

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children.

 

 

Dont you find this shocking James? We will all wait to see what you have to say, and we shall wait and see if you are an honest man as you make yourself to be, although I really proved you arent an honest man, but you can still show some good character here. :)

 

James then ends his article by stating:

 

Jesus saves. Muhammad tortured

 

How can Jesus save anyone when your own Bible shows that he could not even save himself? Instead he was crying and praying to someone else who could save him, obviously Jesus could not save himself so what is James talking about?