Mary: Fornicate with you "in my mother's bed"
200 years no gospels | 24 other thrones besides Jesus' | Jesus was created | Isaiah 53 mistranslations | What's new | A-Z library (3300+ articles) | "Muslims" was the original title | Quran Search | Quran Moral Code (100s of them) | Quran: Bibles are filled with corrupt قول qaowl (doctrines of sayings and writings) | "bar Allahin" in Daniel 3:25-26 means the chosen one of Allah | Jesus said he was powerless | Daniel 7:25: Christianity will change time and the Law | Paul wasn't sure about the Holy Spirit (Romans 9:1, 1 Corinthians 7:40) | Eesa 
(Quran's name for Jesus) is Iesu and Iesus in Latin and Greek for Jesus, and Eesa is also a Hebrew word that means doctor or healer; all of Jesus' Miracles were medical | Paul was a holy barfaliphor (ΜΠαρφαλιφωρ) | Research & Blog | 9/11 Israel-lie | Youtube | 
The Romans had to fake his crucifixion due to Passover issues: [1]
Dr. Gary Miller is a Canadian former Christian theologian and minister who converted to Islam. He now works on spreading and preaching Islam to the world. May Allah Almighty bless him all the way !!.
DR MILLER: (Concluding a lecture on "What The Gospels Mean to Muslims" in
Lawrence, Kansas): So those are some thoughts, and I’d actually be more
interested in what you’re thinking then what I’m thinking. If you have some
questions or comments, don’t be shy to speak up. Thank you for your time
and attention, in any case. Don’t do that. {Miller politely objects to
APPLAUSE by a Christian audience of 40 or so people}
************START Q&A*************
QUESTIONER1: Can we ask you questions not exactly on the Gospel but on…
DR MILLER: Sure
QUESTIONER1: In relationship to some words that we hear: Sunnis and Shi’
ite. Like we understand Protestants and Catholics, so…
DR MILLER: Yes, it’s not quite parallel to that, historically, those are
really nicknames that were bestowed on people, I don’t think people at least
years ago deliberately told you, “I am Sunni or Shia or Wahabi” or something
like that. Those are nicknames bestowed from outside. Just as I don’t
think the first protestant said, “I am protestant.” That is a label that
came on. That basically refers to different approaches to certain issues.
The labels were unknown until some period of time after the time of the
prophet I am saying, well, at least 250 years before people were using these
kinds of things. And Shia just came from an Arabic word which means “party”
like the Republican party, that sort of thing. It was kind of a nickname
bestowed on people who claimed to historically belong to a certain party
loyal to a certain man. Others put the emphasis on saying that the loyalty
is not to a certain bloodline but to a certain code of behavior. That is
basically the root meaning of Sunna, which has to do with characteristic
behavior or habit or whatever. That is how these two nicknames came about:
One said we want to follow the behavior of a certain group of people; and,
the other group wanting to emphasize the line of descent of people. They
are roughly divided 90% to 10%. Some of the issues that divide are much
more important to a small group of people than they are to the bulk of
individuals. That is to say, if you approached someone and said I take this
position and I am against the position you take, chances are he doesn’t know
about either one of those positions. It is like a layman trying to debate
the matters that Church councils take up. Usually they don’t even know what
it is they are talking about in the first place. Most of those issues are
far removed from people, or if they have an idea of what those issues are,
it maybe some simplistic view of one or the other favorite thing they
carried over. I hope that’s helpful.
DR MILLER: Yes (pointing to the next questioner)
QUESTIONER2: I was just curious how does a Muslim, how does he know that he
has eternal life, what does a Muslim believe once he dies in sin?
DR MILLER: Well, as to exactly what happens to him, there are all kinds of
stories about that, nobody really knows. MAYBE DEATH IS AS INTERESTING AS
LIFE. It’s like saying what’s going to happen to this baby now that it is
born (referencing an infant screaming and crying out in the audience)? What
going to happen now that this man has died may be a very complicated thing,
too? The first part about what you are asking is how does he knows about
where he stands?
Look at it in this way, the Quran says that on the final judgment that
record of each man will be put in his hand. He knows by that record what
the decision is what the verdict is. There are no surprises. It is not
going to be the case where someone looks over his record and is thinking,
“This looks pretty close, I hope the judge is in a good mood today.”
(Audience laughter) It’s going to be very clear by the record.
So given that that is the case, anybody at any given moment should be able
to stop and think, “What if I died right now? Am I ready or not?” The
difference between that approach and the approach of some at least who would
say, ”I KNOW that my well being is looked after,” is some of those who would
say that, “I know that I am saved and a week from tomorrow I’ll still be
saved.” Whereas the Muslim would say, “I am ready to die now, a week from
tomorrow ask me a week from tomorrow.” That is he knows what the situation
is to now.
There is a confidence there I guess which the Muslim doesn’t often talk
about, there is the story of one of the men of 14 centuries ago, he was
about to be executed, in fact crucified, by the people in Mecca, Hubaibe
(a.s.), I am thinking of. The people who were about to kill him said, ”You
can have a moment to make some prayers if your want.” So he prayed very
quickly and then he came back, “I would have prayed longer but you would
think that I was stalling and I was afraid, and I am not, let’s get on with
it, I shortened my prayer.” So he was quite confident of what the situation
was at that point. That is distinctly a possibility. It is just a matter
of being honest with yourself, to say why have I done what it is that I’ve
done, what are my intentions, what brought me to here. Is it good or is it
bad? That’s something you know from the inside.
QUESTIONER2: So how do you know the things that you’ve done throughout your
life whether God thinks they’re good enough for Him? I’m saying you appear
before Him when you die, how do you know that it is good enough?
DR MILLER: It is not a question precisely of what is done, it is a question
of intentions. That is, it is said that if a man made up his mind to a good
thing and he got up to leave the house to go do it and fell and broke his
neck and died, the credit is his as though he did it. Because what matters
is that he was of that frame of mind that he was intending to do that.
Whereas if a man made up his mind to do a bad thing, and he broke his neck
on the way, he has committed no crime, too bad that he was in that state of
mind -- but he has committed no crime. In the third case, if a man made up
his mind to do a bad thing and then changes his mind he has credit for
changing his mind.
You see it is a matter of the intention, what is the frame of mind that you
are in, NOT NECESSARILY THE VALUE OF YOUR ACTS. The good things that people
do have a certain value but they really don’t add up to anything like the
compensation that comes back. As the one verse says, The punishment that
men receive is exactly equal to the wrong done but the reward they receive
is 10 times greater than any good they’ve actually ever done. That using
the figure 10 apparently figuratively, just to say penalties correspond with
crimes, but rewards are much greater than any particular good thing that was
done.
QUESTIONER2: Well, my point would be, how do you know that your intentions
are good enough?
DR MILLER: Well, it’s a matter of being perfectly honest with yourself.
That is all and that takes practice.
QUESTIONER2: How do you know that what you intend as good is good in His
Sight?
DR MILLER: Well, it sounds like, and I’m not trying to make fun or anything,
but that’s a problem sometimes psychologists talk about called “scruples.”
Those are people who are paranoid about their own motivation. It is always
good to ask why do I do this, and you’ve got to be honest with yourself, but
you drive yourself insane if you are continually trying to accuse yourself
of wrong doing. To think back, “When I was six years old, I remember my
mother picked me up. Was I sexually aroused?” That is mentally ill but
people can get into that state of mind if they are always doubting what was
my intention. It good to on a regular basis to ask yourself why do I really
want to do this thing, but if you are convinced that, “I’ll never know,”
then you are losing your mind. If you are convinced that you'll never know
your own mind, I think you’ve lost it.
QUESTIONER2: The point I’m trying to make is that you will never know.
DR MILLER: I disagree one hundred percent. You are saying a man will never
know his own intentions and I saying that is should be an easy thing to do.
QUESTIONER2: The point is you will never know.
DR MILLER: Okay, then you have your opinion and I have mine. I think it is
rather easy to know your own intentions.
QUESTIONER3: I think I understand his question. I’m not trying to reword it
but what I’m trying to think of is the comparison of two people. If your
intention is to do one thing: to wear a coat and tie because you think it’s
a good thing to do; and, my intention was to not wear a coat and tie, cause
I didn’t think it was necessary. In God’s Eyes are your intentions better
than mine or in God’s Eyes is each person’s good intentions, is there a
standard of good intentions or does each person do the best they can do
according to their own scruples?
DR MILLER: Well, I suppose maybe what you’re, that’s a complex question in
this sense. However I answer it, I’m agreeing with something that you’ve
wrapped up in a question with which I disagree. You’ve made it sound as
though different people have different scruples, and that is basically what
I disagree with. On the inside of every person is the same standard. The
Quran says that men are made of one sort of thing, they have one kind of a
nature, that is human nature. Men are not produced in such a way that some
are a little more careful than others, they get to be that way but they didn
’t start out that way. They all have the same standards. If people develop
different standards it is precisely because of that, they have developed
those different standards.
QUESTIONER3: Yeah, so you’re saying that the essence of human would be an
across the board, everyone has the same…
DR MILLER: It should be the same
QUESTIONER3: I didn’t hear you say that earlier.
DR MILLER: I didn’t, it’s my fault.
QUESTIONER4: I really appreciate the way you’ve presented yourself, and
your obvious intelligence, and your competence in scripture. And I
appreciate the gentle approach that you’ve taken both toward Christians and
Moslems.
Do you believe that Muhammad taught that God gave the Law to Moses?
DR MILLER: See that’s like one of the questions that are asked when you’re
put in a double bind of answer yes or no that eliminates any qualification
as to the terminology that is used. And you say, “The Law” given to Moses.
That He gave Moses a law I have no doubt. Yes, that is basically the Muslim
position. That he gave Moses the Law, which you can pick up from your
public library, is another question.
QUESTIONER4: The only Law that we have of Moses goes back to the Dead Sea
Scrolls which is about 200 years before Christ. There is nothing older than
that and they have essentially agreed with the ones we had before that which
were about a 1000 years after, maybe I should say, Jesus (Luke 2:52: GOD forgave Jesus' sins and was "charitable" with him). Of course,
Muhammad called Jesus Messiah as you know but he didn’t mean what Christians
mean, obviously. The reason I’m asking is that the center of the Mosaic Law
was blood sacrifice. And in Leviticus 17 it says that without blood
sacrifice there couldn’t be atonement made for the soul. And it carries
over into the Christian New Testament that there is a blood sacrifice made
to make atonement for the soul, which is, of course, the blood of Christ.
May I read a passage from scripture to support what I’m saying?
DR MILLER: Go ahead, if it is not that long.
QUESTIONER4: It says, “For all have sinned and come short of the Glory of
God.” That just means that every human being has sinned. And I don’t
believe that there is a person in here who thinks they haven’t. “Being
justified freely by His Grace through the Redemption that is in Christ Jesus
who God has sent forth to be a propitiation.” That’s a way of reconciling,
an atonement. “Through faith in his blood to declare his righteousness for
the remission of sins of their past through the forbearance of God.”
So the same system of atonement, the reason I’m saying this is because you
said that the system of atonement is not worked out very clearly. The same
system of atonement applies to the New Testament scripture as in the Old,
that is blood sacrifice. That man has sinned and God demands blood in the
Old Testament it is animal sacrifice; in the New Testament it’s the blood of
Christ.
DR MILLER: Sorry, you had a hard time trying to get that out. I didn’t know
that’s what you were getting at. The problem is that you should be arguing
with the rabbi who’ll tell you that is not so. I’m always telling people
that but they have no reason to believe me, I guess.
I had the good fortune a couple of years ago at Emory University in Atlanta
when there was a rabbi in the front row. This same point came up and I
mentioned the fact is the Jews have NEVER believed in blood sacrifice
actually paying the penalty for sins. If you don’t believe me, ask the
rabbi. He stood up, put his thumbs in his suspenders, he said, “The man is
quite right!” They do not believe it, and I suggest as a reference in the
Universal Jewish Encyclopedia, the article, “Redemption.” It points out
that what you’re talking about, the blood sacrifice actually paying for
atonement, is a concept COMPLETELY UNKNOWN to the Jews.
That there were blood sacrifices, for sure, but what they were supposed to
do is not the same kind of thing as orthodox Christian doctrine talks about.
It relates to such places as the 31st chapter of Jeremiah. You find it in
some of the Minor Prophets, the twelve so called Minor Prophets, where it is
pointed out that, for example, and it was said that Israel was ransomed from
Egypt. The point is made it doesn’t mean that they were paid for. Even
though the language reads like that. Instead of trying to convince you of
all that, I would say go and ask the rabbi if that is so.
Look it up in the Universal Jewish Encyclopedia or any other reference, on
Redemption, where it will show you that the Christian idea does not
correspond to the Jewish idea, according to the Jews. They’ve been using
the same books longer. It’s a point that the Quran makes, for that matter,
it says that the Jews and Christians use some of the same material and yet
they disagree. This exhibits a difficulty: At least one of them is mistaken
on this issue or various other issues.
As to what these verses themselves may mean when blood sacrifice is talked
about in a Christian portion of scripture, there’s room for disagreement on
positions. The Universalists and others, for example, said Jesus spoke
figuratively about an awful lot of things and it may be unjust to take him
figuratively here and literally there. He said that unless a grain of corn
dies it won’t grow, he didn’t really mean die, he means it goes into the
ground. So maybe when he said I’m going to die he meant something like that
and not literally die. It was Paul who said, “I die every day.” He didn’t
mean I really drop dead everyday and then I get up. He meant something
else.
The possibility has been there, it’s not a popular Christian position, but
the same words are open to other meanings by other people. I’m not even
saying that they’re right but I’m saying this thing is not so unambiguous as
it is sometimes portrayed. It is still very much an open issue.
QUESTIONER4: I certainly think that there’s a sense that you are right.
Because there are scriptures that say God is not satisfied with the
sacrifice of bulls, and the blood of bulls, and so the Messiah answers back,
“that a body you have prepared for me.”
DR MILLER: Now you see, that is precisely, I shouldn’t have even made it
sound like an unkind comment when I was saying it. Sometimes, the
suggestion is made that errors in the Bible do not relate to major doctrine,
and that’s precisely the one I was thinking of that does. Because if you
read in Hebrews the passage which says that a body was prepared for me, look
up the Psalm that it’s quoting from, I thinks it’s the 40th Psalm, IT DOESN’
T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT A BODY. It says God made an ear for me. Which relates
to an old miscopying of a Greek translation of the Hebrew scriptures by
whoever wrote Hebrews when he mistook two words that ran together that meant
“God dubbed me an ear” to God prepared me a body. This major doctrine has
been built upon what was a mistranslation by somebody centuries ago.
QUESTIONER4: Well, it’s just a matter of pointing and the Septuagint took
it, ah, a Greek translation of the Hebrew scripture. Of course, took it as
body, and so that’s what the writer of the Hebrew put down, and he took his
quote straight out of Septuagint, as you say, a wrong translation of the
Hebrew scriptures. I realize that is controversial, maybe I shouldn’t have
even tried to use it…
DR MILLER: Yes, and I don’t mean to embarrass you, I appreciate your input
and I want to give everybody else a chance as well. I don’t want to get into
a harangue, anybody else?
QUESTIONER5: This is regarding your God-man dilemma. I was wondering why
you chose to exclude any discussion of the physical resurrection of Jesus?
That is one of the main bases of showing divinity.
DR MILLER: Why is the resurrection the basis of divinity? I hope I am
raised up some day, what will that make me? Divine? Whether or not Jesus
was raised up from the dead is another issue, but if I grant you that he
was, what does that have to do with him being divine?
QUESTIONER5: It was a physical resurrection.
DR MILLER: I hope if I am raised up, that I look better than I do. I hope
that it is a physical resurrection. I don’t really see what that has to do
with divinity. It’s a case of show and tell, Jesus is divine: look he is
raised up. It is not relevant to divinity.
QUESTIONER5: No body ever died and three days later came back to life.
DR MILLER: I know, suppose I told you no body or suppose I tell many people.
What does it prove? As a matter of fact, the documents that are passed down
to us from the Roman empire of 2000 years ago report that this idea of that
someone was killed and raised up again was a rather common notion. There
lots of people making the same claim. There was a Mespheles had already
drawn popularity in an area of the Mediterranean 200 years before the time
of Jesus, and it was said of various people. In fact I’ll bet you that you
read in the next twelve months in the National Enquirer that somebody was
raised from the dead. Reports of it were coming out all the time and these
people didn’t think that makes somebody divine.
How many people did Jesus supposedly raise from the dead? I’ve always
wondered myself what it was like at the second funeral of Lazarus. A man
that was dead then alive again then one day he must have died again. I’d
have very mixed feelings as a relative going to bury him again. His actual
resurrection doesn’t establish the divinity of Jesus (Luke 2:52: GOD forgave Jesus' sins and was "charitable" with him). And Elijah raised an
individual from the dead according to 2nd Kings. The resurrection itself is
all very interesting but it’s virtually like anything you can point to, how
do you demonstrate an Infinite God by pointing to some finite thing? There’
s nothing a human being can EVER point to, that thing that proves the
Infinite God (Luke 2:52: GOD forgave Jesus' sins and was "charitable" with him). It establishes some power or ability beyond mortal men but
exhibit a thing that a man can look at with his eyes, and say that proves
the Infinite Ability of God (Luke 2:52: GOD forgave Jesus' sins and was "charitable" with him). It technically can not be done because of THE
definition of the God they’re trying to prove. Some Christian theologians
have experimented with the idea that God is FINITE, not infinite. That’s
very interesting, that solves a lot these problems, I guess.
QUESTIONER6: Okay, now, some Christians claim that Jesus is God but Jesus
never said that in the Bible that “I am God and worship me.” On the other
hand I would like to ask with so many interpretations of what Jesus said is
that because nobody wrote it down when he said it? Or is it because it is
written so after a long, long time?
DR MILLER: Well, maybe a little of both, I don’t know. There is not a whole
lot that is reported that he said anyway. There was one newspaperman in my
city, Toronto, he said if you took all the words of Jesus you could print
them on the front page of a newspaper. There are not that many words to go
on that have been handed down. That was a point that I touched on, there,
which I was trying to explain to Muslims sometimes, take it easy.
When I travel around it very often happens that someone meets me at the
airport. Somebody I never met before, and he picks up the bag and we head
out for the car and before we get to the car, before we’re out of the
parking lot, he says, “Does it say somewhere in the Bible that Jesus said he
was God?”
The answer is, well, yes and no. It depends upon whether you are looking
for precise words or are you looking to find out what did he mean when he
said this thing? The Muslim has fallen into what is really an unfair kind
of reply. The Christian says look here Jesus says I am THE Son of God (Luke 2:52: GOD forgave Jesus' sins and was "charitable" with him). The
Muslim says, “Ah, it must be a lie, somebody wrote that there!” When he,
Jesus, may have well have said that but now let’s see who was he talking to
and what were they talking about when he said that. And who says that “son”
should have a capital “S” there and so on. Those are ideas of some of the
people who have reproduced these things.
The episode, in particular, that I mentioned where the Jews said we are sons
of God his reply was no you are sons of the devil, I am a son of God (Luke 2:52: GOD forgave Jesus' sins and was "charitable" with him). When
they said son of God they didn’t mean some kind of claim to divinity and
when he said you are sons of the devil he didn’t literally mean your
grandmother slept with the devil, I don’t think. But why is it that he MUST
literally mean when he says, “I am the son of God, only when I say son of
God, I mean SON of God, I mean capital ‘S’, Son!” Maybe he did or maybe he
didn’t. It is unfair to insist that what he meant was this thing and not
something like what the Jews meant when they were having this discussion.
As to whether or not people worshipped him, that is another one of these
things that, it is a trick of language, that the Quran accuses some people
of doing. Worship used to mean in English, what was WORTHY, worthyship. In
Canada we still call the mayor of a city, Your Worship. It doesn’t mean I
think he’s God (Luke 2:52: GOD forgave Jesus' sins and was "charitable" with him). It’s just how you talk. It used to be in English, that if
you stood up when someone came into the room they’d say you worshipped him.
It says in the Bible that a man came to Jesus one day and he worshipped him.
If you look literally in the Greek the word there literally means, “he blew
him a kiss.” Now people have done that to me, I don’t like it, but I didn’t
think they were worshipping me like I was God (Luke 2:52: GOD forgave Jesus' sins and was "charitable" with him). (Audience laughter.) It’s
just what was said. What I’m getting at here is that, I believe it’s the
2nd Chapter of Daniel, it says that Nebuchadnezzar came to Daniel and he
worshipped him, in the King James Bible (Luke 2:52: GOD forgave Jesus' sins and was "charitable" with him). You point to that and say doesn’t
worship here sound more just kind of like a salute? Or he nodded his head
toward him or shook his hand or something like that. So in most Modern
English translations they changed that to something else. But THEY HAVE
LEFT ALONE A VERSE THAT SAYS A MAN CAME TO JESUS AND HE WORSHIPPED HIM.
Today, at least in many English speaking countries, worship has a different
flavor than it had long ago. Today it seems to carry a lot of baggage that
it didn’t used to have. As I say, it still doesn’t in many British areas,
you won’t find that argument cited by a Canadian generally will not point to
the place where a man worshipped Jesus (Luke 2:52: GOD forgave Jesus' sins and was "charitable" with him). That’s kind of silly. Even a
little town of 500 people we call the mayor, Your Worship. It’s just a way
of talking.
QUESTIONER4: May I do it again just for the sake of what the Christian
scriptures say. It’s your day and I’m not meaning to take it away. You’ve
done a good job too. But can I do it with Thomas and read that situation
out here?
DR MILLER: I can probably quote it for you without reading it, if you’re
talking about “My Lord and my God…”
QUESTIONER4: Yeah.
DR MILLER: See that’s the same kind of…. I think everybody knows the
passage…
QUESTIONER4: It’s how Jesus responded that I’m interested in.
DR MILLER: What? How did he respond? Like this, you got it, Thomas, right
on the nose?
QUESTIONER4: “Then Jesus said to Thomas reach here your finger and look at
my hand.” He’s asking him to put his finger into the hole with his hands.
“And put it into my side and don’t be faithless but believing. And Thomas
answered and said to him, ‘My Lord and my God’.” Jesus’ response is “Thomas
because you have seen me you have believed. Blessed are they that have not
seen and yet have believed.” So Jesus, I think, is backing up what Thomas
says. He has him put his hand in the hole in his side and when Thomas calls
him my Lord and my God, he blesses Thomas for having seen and believed. He
doesn’t say far be it from God that He should have a son.
DR MILLER: Well, the point is there are at least three ways that I know of
that Thomas’ words can be taken. I don’t use it as a matter of course but
it has happened to me that I’ve been surprised and I’ve said, “My God!” The
man in front of me says yes, isn’t it terrible, such and such a thing is
true. He didn’t say, no, what do you mean; I’m not God (Luke 2:52: GOD forgave Jesus' sins and was "charitable" with him). It may have been
an expletive.
He, Thomas, may have said, “My Lord, My God.” What Jesus was then talking
about was you Thomas didn’t think I was raised up. Now you’ve seen and you
believe I’m raised up, so congratulations. Other people won’t get to see
the evidence but they will believe. It’s not necessarily an endorsement of
some theological statement by Thomas.
In any case, even if Thomas was addressing him, “My Lord, My God,” that has
precedent in Scripture. The Muslim may not like it but the precedent is
there of other people who were addressed as God without being God (Luke 2:52: GOD forgave Jesus' sins and was "charitable" with him). When
Moses spoke to the angel in the burning bush he called the angel, God (Luke 2:52: GOD forgave Jesus' sins and was "charitable" with him).
Stephen explains later that it wasn’t actually God that was God’s angel.
When God Sends an angel and you speak to him you might call him God (Luke 2:52: GOD forgave Jesus' sins and was "charitable" with him).
Moses was told, “I’m sending you as god to Pharaoh and your brother Aaron
will be your prophet.” In fact the word “as” is added in Italics in most
English translations, it is not there in the Hebrew. God says I am sending
you to Pharaoh, you will be god, as far as Pharaoh is concerned. This and
other cases, the precedent is there for a human being or some other being to
be addressed as God without being God (Luke 2:52: GOD forgave Jesus' sins and was "charitable" with him). Paul talked about Satan as being the
god of the world, so there is a question of god is capital “G” or small “g”.
There are various ways of looking at it but I‘m not arguing that your
understanding is wrong, so much as trying to point out the case in not
closed by that. Other things are possible. It is ambiguous. In a session
like this it may sound like I’m trying to tell some people that they are
wrong. My intention is more to say if you think you have proved something
think again. Find something unambiguous or all-inclusive then wrap it up.
If you can do that, then I will say, “Yes, you are right.”
For now, what passes as proof is largely what is called SYNTHETIC reasoning.
That is not a criticism. Synthetic reasoning is when you take a lot of
things and you form what seems to be a sensible conclusion. IT IS NOT AN
INEVITABLE CONCLUSION. That is analytic reasoning. Synthetic reasoning is
when you say it is cloudy, the wind is blowing and the weatherman said
rain – It’s gonna rain. That’s synthetic reasoning. You have not proved it
’s going to rain.
Analytic reasoning is where you have said A and B makes C, there is no other
possibility. That’s analytic reasoning.
These types of things are sold, in my opinion, as synthetic reasoning I’ve
never seen it sold any other way. It is very coherent but it is not an
inevitable conclusion that one arrives at, OTHER CONCLUSIONS ARE POSSIBLE
BASED UPON THE SAME INPUT.
I want to give someone a turn who has not spoken; did I ask you before?
(Miller addressing audience)
QUESTIONER7: Sir, we’ve talked about the Christian scriptures and their view
of themselves, could you very quickly explain the Quran’s view of itself in
relationship to Christian scripture? What validity does it give for its own
superiority, if it claims that?
DR MILLER: Yes, to start with, it’s not so much a superior kind of a
scripture, if that’s what you mean. That is largely a Muslim
misrepresentation, which is an over enthusiastic patriotism.
The Quran does not claim superiority in the usual sense that people are
talking about because the Bible and the Quran are different kinds of books.
The Quran reads approximately like most of the so-called Minor Prophets and
some of the pronouncements of Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel. It is not like
most of the Bible, which are stories. That is, the book of Jonah begins by
saying the Word of the Lord came to Jonah, the son of Amittai, saying,
quote, what you are about to read came from God, through Jonah.
Whereas the book of Luke begins by saying, in effect, what you are about to
read is what I have gathered and put together because it seemed like a good
idea, saying, “It seemed the appropriate thing to do” to gather the evidence
and write this story. He doesn’t say, what you are about to read are words
God has handed to me and I’m now putting down on paper for you.
Those are two different kinds of things. The Quran is like the former.
That is why it is really rather short, it is about 80% the size of the New
Testament. It is pronouncements: if you read “I” it is God speaking, if you
read “you” it is you, it is God talking to whoever is reading this. So they
are different kinds of books, largely.
What it says of previous scriptures for one thing is that it says of itself
that it confirms the truthfulness of WHAT IS IN previous scriptures. That
is certain things the have fallen into debate, people were arguing about
certain things, and if they were really important things the Quran touches
on them. To say, it was correctly reported in that scripture on this matter
that it really happened like that.
It confirms the truthfulness of previous scriptures, and this verse also in
the 5th chapter, also says of itself that it is, and the Arabic word is
MUHAYMIN, which maybe best translated by the words, quality control. It is
kind of a test against other scriptures. That is, if somebody brings
something and says this is scripture and it says such and such, it may well
be the Quran says that specifically is NOT so, and the evidence is in that
place, go and look. It is acting as quality control in that regard.
But, of course, it does not go step by step all the way through the Bible,
the Hindu Gupta, and various other scriptures and say chapter 1 is correct,
there one mistake in chapter 2, 3 in chapter 4 and so on. It doesn’t do
that. It just talks about certain issues and the advice traditionally given
to the Muslim right from the beginning was that if, for example, the
Christian comes and he says such and such is true and it says so in my book,
and you don’t have a reason to agree with him – then give him the benefit of
the doubt. He might be right; he might be wrong but don’t insist he’s
wrong. Leave him with it unless you evidence to the contrary.
And so it is, a lot of what Muslims commonly talk about are really things
they may have picked up from the Christian or the Jew. Often to their
detriment, I’m afraid, they pick up some of the fairytales and carry them
over as well. That’s the key, it is confirming the truthfulness of key
issues and it’s also setting the record straight on certain other things
that people have misrepresented. A great deal else it does not comment on
because it doesn’t really matter.
QUESTIONER7: It’s a man-made instrument to confirm or not confirm another
supposedly man-made instrument?
DR MILLER: Oh, no, it doesn’t say of itself it is a man-made instrument. As
I said, it’s the Speech of God’s commandments. When you read it, it says,
“I” as God, and “you” the reader. It’s a pronouncement like as I said some
of the 18 of the 66 books of the bible are like that, they don’t just tell
the story of so and so, but they say, God told Hosea this, quote. It’s of
that nature.
QUESTIONER7: The point I’m trying to make is that its validity is based on
the fact that in part that it says it has a right to confirm or not confirm
other books of scripture.
DR MILLER: Well, as to its validity, there are various approaches to that.
But the one that is easiest to explain is that the Book by its physical
existence, the paper and ink, demands an explanation of where did it come
from? What it repeats many times is that if somebody says the origin of
this Book is such and such, then ask him or her so and so to see if they
still thinks that’s true. In another place, If they think this Book came
from such and such, remind them of this. So a person is confronted with the
Book and has to come up with an explanation of where did it come from, and
the person pursuing that comes to the conclusion that that is not so easily
answered. All of the usual ideas have probably already been discussed in
the Book itself with an explanation of why that can’t be so. You’d better
come up with another reason. It’s when you run out of options it becomes a
proof by exhaustion. It comes down to either this man was deceived or was
himself a deceiver, if you are going to explain all of the facts you need
BOTH of those assumptions and the point is they eliminate each other. You
cannot at one time think you are a prophet and lie to people about it. You
cannot have it both ways. You can be neither a liar nor deceived; you might
be one or the other, but you can’t be both. You’re left with still this
paper and ink, unexplained – what is its origin?
That’s one way of looking at how does it establish that it deserves respect.
There’s also the influence that it has had. It has accomplished certain
things that’s why historians of science, language, and philosophy will still
point to the Quran that’s the reason why the Arabs were suddenly civilized
after 10,000 years of NO preparation for civilization. Something in that
book is a stimulus. I hesitate to mention that, I suppose, because Islam is
not an Arabic sort of thing, don’t get that idea. 80% of Muslims don’t
speak Arabic, anyway. The point is that it had a sudden impact. That needs
an explanation, it calls for some kind of answer.
QUESTIONER8: Is there a difference between the word “gospel” and the word
“bible” as it contributes to the scriptures?
DR MILLER: Oh, yes, that’s a point maybe I should have dealt with. He’s
asking about words like bible, and gospel. The Quran when it talks about
gospel it means Injeel, in Arabic, Injeel, which is related to the Greek,
evangel, which is translated “gospel.” A long time ago, it might have been
better translated as “Good News.” Injeel was a message it wasn’t a book
some place. It was in the 2nd century that the collections of the accounts
of the life of Jesus got the nickname, gospels.
When technically any Christian that makes that distinction to say well these
are the four gospels but the gospel of Jesus is a message. It is not these
four books. These four books have the gospel in them somewhere. So the
Quran is talking about what was it Jesus said not what are those four
injeels.
As to bible, that is just an English nickname. It just means library; it is
a collection of writings. In other languages, they sometimes don’t call it
that, the Germans call it Helige Geschrift, holy writings. The bible is
just a convenient name. The Quran talks about people who use books, or use
the book, or book people but it doesn’t say people that use THAT book, the
Revised Standard of 1881. People who are in the habit of using a book to
support their position are people of the book without spelling out bible or
the gospel according to Matthew.
Maybe that’s all our time (see also Luke 2:52: GOD forgave Jesus). Thank you again. (Applause)
Islam - Questions and Answers.
The Romans had to fake his crucifixion due to Passover issues: [1]
Mary: Fornicate with you "in my mother's bed"
200 years no gospels | 24 other thrones besides Jesus' | Jesus was created | Isaiah 53 mistranslations | What's new | A-Z library (3300+ articles) | "Muslims" was the original title | Quran Search | Quran Moral Code (100s of them) | Quran: Bibles are filled with corrupt قول qaowl (doctrines of sayings and writings) | "bar Allahin" in Daniel 3:25-26 means the chosen one of Allah | Jesus said he was powerless | Daniel 7:25: Christianity will change time and the Law | Paul wasn't sure about the Holy Spirit (Romans 9:1, 1 Corinthians 7:40) | Eesa (Quran's name for Jesus) is Iesu and Iesus in Latin and Greek for Jesus, and Eesa is also a Hebrew word that means doctor or healer; all of Jesus' Miracles were medical | Paul was a holy barfaliphor (ΜΠαρφαλιφωρ) | Research & Blog | 9/11 Israel-lie | Youtube
Quran's STUNNING Divine Miracles: [1] Allah Almighty also promised in several Divine Prophecies that He will show the Glorious Quran's Miracles to mankind. For example:
Coincidence? See 1,000s of examples [1].Quran's Stunning Numerical & Scientific Miracles.
"I cannot do anything on my own." (i.e., Jesus could not perform a single Miracle without GOD sending it down to him first!). I can not perform a single Miracle on my own!! I am totally POWERLESS without Allah Almighty! John 5:31 "if I (Jesus) bear witness of myself, then I would be a liar!" GOD didn't talk this way when He spoke to Moses. GOD's testimony alone is always sufficient! Jesus also bowed his face down to the ground, like we Muslims (Isaiah 56:5: Muslim is the future believers' name, and sons and daughters of GOD titles will be "no more"; |
.jpg)
