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Rebuttal
to Answering-Islams: "Scientific Errors of the Qur’an"
(Book:
Behind the veil, unmasking Islam)
Response by Mahir
Answering
Islam wrote:
Our
Muslim brothers believe that the Qur’an is the book of God and that it
pre-existed with God from eternity. They believe God then revealed it to
Muhammad by the arch-angel Gabriel on different occasions through the course of
several years. This was Muhammad’s claim which he related to them. At first,
Muhammad was not sure of this process; he was unsure and afraid to make such
claims. Later, however, he became very sure.
My response:
Nothing
to respond to!
Answering-Islam wrote:
For
now, however, we would like to shed some light on the Qur’an and its contents
in order to reveal the amazing truth to our brethren, the Muslims, few of whom
have read what the great authors of Islam have said about the Qur’an. They
would also be very surprised to discover that Muhammad’s companions as well as
the rightly guided Caliphs said that some parts of the Qur’an were lost.
Moreover, the Qur’an was subjected to perversion and alteration and Muhammad’s
companions disagreed over some chapters of the Qur’an, some verses and their
meanings. It is almost impossible for Muslims to imagine such things about
their book which they dearly regard and respect. The sacred halo which
encompasses the Qur’an must be dispelled and the veil which covers its face
must be removed. If this disturbs and annoys Muslims, it will also help them to
wake up from the slumber of their delusion which does not benefit them at all,
but rather hurts them instead Those who love the truth and would like to
worship the only true God faithfully and truthfully will be filled with real
joy.
My response:
"
They would also be very surprised to discover that Muhammad’s companions as
well as the rightly guided Caliphs said that some parts of the Qur’an were
lost"
I would love to see proof for this!
Maybe he is
referring to when Umar (ra) feared that people will stop practicing the
“stoning punishment”, when people do not find it in the Qur’an, they will stop
practicing it! I do not see “Lost” parts, I see Umar fearing that people will
not find a verse talking about Stoning.
"Moreover,
the Qur’an was subjected to perversion and alteration and Muhammad’s companions
disagreed over some chapters of the Qur’an, some verses and their
meanings"
As for the Qur'an being subjected to perversion and alteration is a
lie, and I would love to see A-i.com trying to prove this! As for the
"Disagreement" over some verses; they never disagreed over laws and
such matters, this is completely normal, Allah left some parts unexplained so
they disagreed over these parts, such as “By the Tariq, what shall teach you what
is the Tariq” and so on.
Biblical
commentators disagree a lot:
Jamieson says that verse; Job 9:6 is a
metaphor:
Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible
Commentary
6. The earth is
regarded, poetically,
as
resting on pillars, which tremble in an earthquake (Ps
75:3; Isa 24:20). The literal truth as to the earth is given (Job 26:7).
While Wesley does not see it as a metaphor:
9:6 The earth - Great
portions of it, by earthquakes,
or by removing islands.
Pillars -
The deep and inward parts
of it, which like pillars supported
those
parts that appear to our view.
So, is this a Biblical error?
Answering-Islam wrote:
We will start by pointing out the Qur’an’s
scientific, historical, and grammatical errors, namely those which deviate from
the well-known rules of Arabic grammar. Muslims believe that the inimitability
of the Qur’an is found in the eloquence and excellence of the Arabic language
in which it is written; thus, it is impossible for them to imagine that the
language of the Qur’an is full of errors. First, however, we will be content to
allude to three scientific errors pertaining to the sun, earth and the two phenomena
of thunder and lighting.
The Sun
In plain words, the Qur’an says that one
of the righteous men of God’s servants saw the sun set in a certain place of
the earth—in particular a well full of water and mud. There, this man found
some people. Let us read what is recorded in the Qur’an (chapter "the
Cave", verse 86),
"When he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring and found a people thereabout. We said: ‘O Dhul-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness"’ (Surah 18:86).
My response:
There
is a detailed response by brother Osama Abdallah regarding this verse:
Dhul Qarnayn's story. Sunrise and sunset. Also Why حمئة and not حاميةٍ. Dhil Qarnayn's journey is detailed with scientific and geographical maps that are more 1000 years old.
.|
Allah Almighty
in the Glorious Quran said that earth is:
- Spherical: "egg-shaped" [1].
-
The Glorious Quran also speaks about
many earths
[5]
and not just earth.
In the end, Allah Almighty uses the Glorious Quran to "...Thus doth God leave to stray whom He pleaseth, and guide whom He pleaseth..." (74:31). The infidels misuse the Glorious Quran to find "scientific errors". The Glorious Quran is Allah Almighty's Perfect Divine Holy Book. It contains no scientific error. Visit the following example and the link to see 1000s of Numerical and Scientific Miracles: 1- The root for message and all of its derivatives, such as messenger and others occurs 513 times throughout the Glorious Quran. The Prophets' and Messengers', peace be upon them, actual names (Muhammad, Moses, Noah, Abraham, Lot etc....) were also all combined mentioned 513 times in the Glorious Quran. The detailed breakdown of all of this is thoroughly listed here. Coincidence? See 1,000s of examples! [1]. (zip file).
|
Answering-Islam wrote:
Lest
I failed to understand what the Qur’an meant by these strange words, I referred
to the famous students of the Qur’an as well as to the ancient scholars. I
discovered that all of them concurred with this rendering and said that Muhammad’s
friends inquired about the sunset and that he gave them that answer. All the
scholars such as the Baydawi, Jalalan, and Zamakhshari confirm it. The
Zamakhshari remarks in his book, "the Kash-shaf",
"Abu Dharr (one of Muhammad’s close companions) was with Muhammad during the sunset. Muhammad asked him: ‘Do you know, O Abu Dharr where this sets?’ He answered: ‘God and His apostle know better.’ Muhammad said: ‘It sets in a spring of slimy water"’ (3rd Edition, Volume 2 p. 743,1987).
My response:
1. This isn't a
Sahih (Authentic) Hadith because I couldn’t find it in any of the Sahihs
(I.e. Sahih Muslim, Sahih Al-Bukhari, Malik’s Muwwata, or Sunan Abu
Dawud) I couldn’t find
ANY Hadith
AT ALL where it is said: "The sun sets in
slimy water/ muddy water/ etc".
2. A-I.com
quotes from a man that belonged to a
sect that was (And
still is) unacceptable by the majority of Muslims, the name of this sect
is; the "Mu'tazili"s
3.
This very same
man (I.e. Zamakhshari) was criticized by the Sunni's for the inclusion of
Mu'tazilite
philosophical views.
4. The very same
sect only accepts Mutawir reports, so according to the
very same sect, this hadith is not enough proof:
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu'tazilite
"Abd al-Jabbar commented on the
issue of reports saying (Martin et al., 1997): Mu'tazilis declare as true all that
is established by mutawatir reports, by which we know what the Messenger of
God has said. And that which was narrated by one or two transmitters only, or by one
for whom error was possible, such reports are unacceptable in religions (al-diyanat)
but they are acceptable in the proceedings of positive law (furu` l-fiqh), as
long as the narrator is trustworthy, competent, just, and he has not
contradicted what is narrated in the Qur'an.
Thus, the non-mutawatir reports are
accepted by Mu'tazilis, according to 'Abd al-Jabbar, when it comes to the
details or branches of law. When it comes to basic tenets, these reports are
not considered authentic enough to establish a belief central to the Islamic
faith. That is, the Mu'tazilis main issue is with reports of speculative authenticity
that have a theological, rather than legal, content, when these seem to
contravene the definitives of the Qur'an and rational proof. Since the
doctrines that Mu'tazilis hated most were anthropomorphism and unqualified
predestination (Ess, 2006), it were reports supporting these and resisting all
hermeneutical attempts at harmonizing and reconciliation that were criticized
and rejected by Mu'tazilis."
5. I could
care less what this sect accepts or not, this hadith is not Sahih,
therefore it is not enough proof to debunk Islam!
6. The very same so called hadith goes against the
Qur'an when the Qur'an declares that the sun IS IN A CONSTANT
ORBIT:
(Qur'an 14:33). "And He hath made subject to you the
sun
and the
moon,
both CONSTANTLY
pursuing their courses..."
The sun doesn’t stop,
it’s constantly in a orbit in our universe!!
Answering-Islam wrote:
As
for where the sun sets
In his book, "The Lights of Revelation" (p. 399), the Baydawi
indicates,
"The sun sets in a slimy spring; that is, a well which contains mud. Some of the readers of the Qur’an read it, ‘...a hot spring’, thus the spring combines the two descriptions. It was said that Ibn ’Abbas found Mu’awiya reading it (as) hot. He told him, ‘It is muddy.’ Mu’awiya sent to Ka’b al-Ahbar and asked him, ‘Where does the sun set?’ He said in water and mud and there were some people. So he agreed with the statement of ibn al-’Abbas. And there was a man who composed a few verses of poetry about the setting of the sun in the slimy spring."
My Response:
It is very funny indeed that he quoted Ibn Abbas
(radi
Allahu Anhu), because the very same companion of Muhammed (Peace be upon him) said
that
the sun
never
actually sets, but rather it is in a
constant orbit:
When we look at a more famous tafsir by Ibn Kathir we see Ibn Abbas
& Ibn Masuud (raa) saying:
Ibn Kathirs tafsir, Chapter called:
"Among the Signs of the Might and Power of Allah are
the Night and Day, and the Sun and Moon"
"...This was narrated from `Abdullah bin `Amr, may Allah be pleased with
him. Ibn Mas`ud
and Ibn `Abbas, may Allah be
pleased with them, recited this Ayah as: (??????????? ??????? ?????????????? ?????) (And the sun runs with no fixed course for a
term,)
meaning that it has no destination
and
it does not settle in one place,
rather it keeps moving
night and day,
never slowing
down or stopping, as in the Ayah:
(And
He has made the sun and the moon, both constantly
pursuing their courses, to be of service to you) (14:33). which
means,
they will never slow down or stop, until the Day of
Resurrection..."
End quote!!!
The very same Ibn Abbas (ra) Answering-Islam quoted is saying that the sun
never actually sets (I.e. what we see is not what we get
J)
Compare:
Ibn Abbas from an authentic Tafsir: "..meaning that it has no destination and
it does not
settle in one place
rather
it keeps moving night and day,
never slowing down or stopping"
Ibn Abbas from Answering-Islams source: "He said in water and mud
and there were some people. So he agreed with the statement of ibn al-’Abbas"
I don’t know about you, but I think
something is fishy with A-i.com’s sources!
Dear
readers, know that there are many
tafsirs out there (Literally hundreds of them), and almost half of all them use
weak hadiths and their own opinions.
Answering-Islam wrote:
The
Jalalan (p. 251) says that the setting of the sun is in a well which contains a
murky mud. We found the same interpretation and text in the Tabari’s
commentaries (p. 339) as well as in "Concise Interpretation of the
Tabari" (p. 19 of part 2) in which he remarks that the well in which the
sun sets "contains lime and murky mud".
These are the comments of the pillars of Islam and the intimate companions of
Muhammad such as ibn Abbas and Aba Dharr. Also it is obvious from the Qur’an
(chapter 36:38) that the sun ran then settled down. The verse says:
"And the sun runs on into a resting place."
My response:
1: Answering-Islam fails to realize that
thoughts,
opinions & guesses regarding scientific verses are
NOT valid proof against Islam, if I say
that the Qur'an supports The Big Bang
theory, I can’t say that it’s obligatory to believe in this, and neither
can these scholars, and nor did they claim that! They were only guessing and
giving their opinions without valid proof!
2: As for Ibn
Abbas and Abu dharr (raa), I have already shown you VALID & AUTHENTIC proof
in Ibn Kathirs tafsir of what Ibn Abbas said! As for Abu Dharr, I would
like to see Answering-Islam quoting a SAHIH hadith from Abu Dharr where he
states that the sun sets in water!
Secondly, even if you find billions of
such opinions by the companions, this CAN’T disprove Islam because it’s only
mere opinions and guesses!
3:
Answering-Islam said; "Also it is obvious from the Qur’an (chapter 36:38)
that the sun ran then settled down. The verse says: "And the sun runs on
into a resting place." "
My small response to this would be, no it’s not obvious because this is
referring to when the sun stops I.e. On
The Judgementday, and we already know that the sun doesn’t stop according to
the verse I quoted, rather it moves constantly!
4.
Jalalayn commented on (Link:
chapter
36:38) that the sun doesn’t enter a hole in the water, it (the sun) is much
bigger then this earth, rather it was the prophet that saw a vision and not
Allah claiming it.
5. Lets see what
Ibn Abbas (ra) Muhammeds
companion commented on 36:38:
(And the sun runneth on unto a resting
place for him) to the sun's mansion; it is also said that this means:
it runs in the day and at night without any
resting place. (That is the measuring of the Mighty) that is the
providence of the Mighty in retribution against those who disbelieve in Him,
(the Wise) He knows His creation and their providence.
It seems as if only Answering-Islam
interprets this verse in the way he does…
J
5. Let’s examine
what
Ibn
Kathir said regarding the sun setting in a mud/water etc:
Ibn Kathirs Tafsir Ch: "His traveling and reaching the Place where
the Sun sets (the West)"
“(Until,
when he reached the setting place of the sun,) means, he
followed a route until he reached the furthest point that could be reached in
the direction of the sun's setting, which is the west of the earth.
As
for the idea of his reaching the place in the sky where the sun sets, this is
something impossible, and the tales told
by storytellers that he traveled so far to the west that the sun set behind him
are not true at all. Most of these stories come from the
myths of the People of the Book (CHRISTIANS AND JEWS) and
the fabrications and lies of their
heretics.
(he found it setting in a
spring of Hami'ah)
meaning, he saw the sun as if it were
setting in the ocean.
This is something
which everyone who goes to the coast can see:
it
looks as if the sun is setting into the sea but in fact it never leaves its
path in which it is fixed.
End quote of Ibn Kathirs Tafsir!
I hope Answering Islam realizes how easy it is to quote a scholar and then
proclaim "Look, Look, here is proof of what Islam teaches"
The Christians and Jews were trying to give Islam an error regarding this verse
in the past, as well as today! Well, I say as Ibn Kathir said,
it’s only lies by their HERETICS!
Answering-Islam wrote:
On
page 585, the Baydawi says,
"The sun runs in its course to a
certain extent then it stops. It is similar to the passenger’s repose after he
completes his journey" (refer also the book of al-Itqan by the Suyuti, p.
242).
This is the story of the setting of the sun in the well and its course as a passenger!
My response:
You see folks? He uses OPINIONS of OLD
scholars to debunk Islam!!
This opinion goes against the Qur'an,
as proven by Ibn Abbas & Ibn Masuud (raa) :
(Qur'an
4:33). "And He hath made subject to you the sun and the moon,
both CONSTANTLY pursuing their courses..."
So
if the sun is in constant motion, and there is another verse saying that the
sun RUNS to its resting place (Without giving time limit), then this means that
the sun
WILL stop in the future… and this is proven by modern science!!!!
Need
I more say ey?
Answering-Islam.com is only relying on different people's interpretation
of the Qur'an (Tafsirs).
Relying
on tafsirs written hundreds of years ago when evaluating the Qur'an from a
scientific point of view is dangerous because any scientific statement made
within these works are sure to
based on
scientific knowledge at that time. Criticizing tafsirs, scholars,
companions etc doesn't prove a thing, except to prove that people are
fallible and cannot always be correct, no matter how learned we may become.
If I find something in Tafsir Al Jalalayn such as: "its setting
in a spring is [described as seen] from the perspective of the eye, for otherwise it
is far larger [in size] than this world; and he found by it, that is, [by] the
spring, a folk,..."
Is it OK for me to say "LOOK, Islam teaches that the sun is bigger
then our earth, it’s a MIRACLE!!!"? Is Islam really teaching this or
is this only a mere opinion by Jalalayn?
Off course, it's only an opinion,
similarly the quotes Answering-Islam provides doesn’t prove a thing, nada,
nollo, Zero, Null!
Answering-Islam wrote:
The Phenomena of Thunder and Lightning
It is common knowledge, as scientists
teach, that thunder is a sound caused by the impact between electrical charges
found in the clouds. Yet Muhammad, the prophet of Muslims, has a different
opinion in this matter. He claims that the thunder and the lightning are two of
God’s angels—exactly like Gabriel!
In the Qur’an there is a chapter under the
title of "Thunder" in which it is recorded that the thunder praises
God. We might think that it does not mean that literally because thunder is not
a living being—although, spiritually speaking, all of nature glorifies God. The
expounders of the Qur’an and its chief scholars, however, insist that Muhammad
said that the thunder is an angel exactly like the angel Gabriel. In his
commentary (p. 329), the Baydawi comments on verse 13 of chapter of the
Thunder,
"Ibn ’Abbas asked the apostle of God
about the thunder. He told him, ‘It is an angel who is in charge of the cloud,
who (carries) with him swindles of fire by which he drives the
clouds."’
In the commentary of the Jalalan (p. 206),
we read about this verse:
"The thunder is an angel in charge of
the clouds to drive them."
Not only ibn ’Abbas asked Muhammad about
the essence of the thunder, but the Jews did too. In the book,
"al-Itqan" by Suyuti (part 4, p. 230), we read the following
dialogue:
"On the authority of Ibn ’Abbas, he
said the Jews came to the prophet (peace be upon him) and said, ‘Tell us about
the thunder. What is it?’ He told them:
‘It is one of God’s angels in charge of
the clouds. He carries in his hand a swindle of fire by which he pricks the
clouds to drive them to where God has ordered them.’ They said to him, ‘What is
this sound that we hear?’ He said: ‘(It is) his voice (The angel’s voice)."’
The same incident—the question of the Jews
and Muhammad’s answer are mentioned by most scholars. Refer, for instance, to
al-Sahih al-Musnad Min Asbab Nuzul al-Ayat (stories related to the verses of
Qur’an, p. 11) and al-Kash-shaf by the Imam al-Kamakhshari (part 2, pp. 518,
519). He reiterates the same story and the same words of Muhammad. Thus, the
incident is in vogue among all Muslim scholars, and the story and the dialogue
between Muhammad and the Jews is well-known.
We have mentioned what the Baydawi, Jalalan,
Zamakhshari, Suyuti, and ibn ’Abbas have said. We do not know (among the
ancient scholars) any who are more famous than these. Concerning lighting,
Muhammad affirms that it is an angel like the thunder and like Gabriel and
Michael. On page 230 of the above references, Suyuti alludes to it. Also on
page 68 of part 4 of the "Itqan", the Suyuti records for us the names
of the angels, which are: "Gabriel, Michael, Harut, Marut, the Thunder and
the Lightning (He said) that the lightning has four faces."
The Suyuti listed all these under the sub-title, "The names of God’s Angels". He also indicated that Muhammad said that the lightning is the tail end of an angel whose name is Rafael (refer to part 4, p. 230 of the Itqan).
My response:
He
quoted:
‘It is one of God’s angels in charge of the clouds. He carries in his hand a
swindle of fire by which he pricks the clouds to drive them to where God has
ordered them.’ They said to him, ‘What is this sound that we hear?’ He said:
‘(It is) his voice (The angel’s voice)."’
how canA-I.com disprove a thing that is unseen (Ghayb), this is like trying to
disprove that Satan exits, that Satan whispers, that Angels exist etc..!
But I found an excellent response by our
brother Muslim:
RESPONSE
Tafsir Ibn Kathir writes on this verse:
(And Ar-Ra'd (thunder) glorifies and praises Him), is
similar to His other statement,
[????? ???? ?????? ?????? ????????? ??????????](And
there is not a thing but glorifies His praise.) [17:44] Imam Ahmad recorded
that Ibrahim bin Sa`d said, "My father told me that he was sitting next to
Hamid bin `Abdur Rahman in the Masjid. A man from the tribe of Ghifar passed
and Hamid sent someone to him to please come to them. When he came, Hamid said
to me, `My nephew! Make space for him between me and you, for he had
accompanied Allah's Messenger.' When that man came, he sat between me and Hamid
and Hamid said to him, `What was the Hadith that you narrated to me from the
Messenger of Allah ' He said, `A man from Ghifar said that he heard the Prophet
say, I
«????? ????? ????????? ?????????? ?????????? ????????
?????????? ?????????? ???????? ????????»(Verily, Allah originates the clouds,
and they speak in the most beautiful voice and laugh in the most beautiful
manner.) It appears, and Allah has the best knowledge, that the cloud's voice
is in reference to thunder and its laughter is the lightning. Musa bin `Ubaydah
narrated that Sa`d bin Ibrahim said, "Allah sends the rain and indeed,
none has a better smile than it, nor more comforting voice. Its smile is
lightning and its voice is thunder.''
Supplicating to Allah upon hearing Ar-Ra`d (Thunder)
Imam Ahmad recorded that Salim bin `Abdullah narrated
that his father said that the Messenger of Allah used to say upon hearing the
thunder and thunderbolts,
«?????????? ??? ??????????? ??????????? ?????
??????????? ???????????? ?????????? ????? ?????»(O Allah! Do not kill us with
Your anger, nor destroy us with Your torment, and save us before that.'' This
Hadith was recorded by At-Tirmidhi, Al-Bukhari in his book Al-Adab Al-Mufrad,
An-Nasa'i in `Amal Al-Yawm wal-Laylah, and Al-Hakim in Al-Mustadrak. When `Abdullah
bin Az-Zubayr used to hear thunder, he would stop talking and would supplicate,
"All praise is to He Whom Ar-Ra`d (thunder) glorifies and praises, and so
do the angels because of His awe.'' He would then say, "This is a stern
warning to the people of earth.'' Malik collected this Hadith in Al-Muwatta',
and Al-Bukhari in Al-Adab Al-Mufrad. Imam Ahmad recorded that Abu Hurayrah said
that the Messenger of Allah said,
«????? ????????? ????? ???????: ???? ????? ????????
??????????? ???????????????? ????????? ???????????? ???????????? ??????????
????????? ????????????? ??????? ?????????????? ?????? ????????»(Your Lord, the
Exalted and Most High, said, `Had My servants obeyed Me, I would have given
them rain by night and the sun by day, and would not have made them hear the
sound of the Ra`d (thunder).') Allah's statement,
[?????????? ??????????? ????????? ????? ???
???????](He sends the thunderbolts, and therewith He strikes whom He wills,)
indicates that He sends thunderbolts as punishment upon whom He wills, and this
is why thunderbolts increase as time comes to an end. Al-Hafiz Abu Al-Qasim
At-Tabarani narrated that Ibn `Abbas said that Arbad bin Qays bin Juzu' bin
Julayd bin Ja`far bin Kulab, and `Amir bin At-Tufayl bin Malik came to
Al-Madinah to the Messenger of Allah and sat where he was sitting. `Amir bin
At-Tufayl said, "O Muhammad! What will you give me if I embrace Islam''
The Messenger of Allah said,
As you can see, Ibn Kathir said nothing
about ar-rad being an angel, nor does the Quranic text imply anything about an
angel, the Quranic text clearly says that the thunder praises Allah, ar-rad
praises Allah, the Surah title is also called ar-rad meaning thunder, it is not
called the angel of thunder, nor does the verse say the angel of thunder neither.
It is most likely that these two tafsirs refered to ar-rad as an angel because
the archangel Michael is the angel who under the command of God brings thunder
and lightening to earth. However so it the more correct view is that ar-rad in
the verse is referring to thunder, not an angel, nor the archangel Michael.
The late Christian writer and apologist
‘Abdallah ‘Abd al-Fadi quotes another renowned commentator named al-Baidawi and
from hadith compiler al-Tirmidhi:
Al Baidawi said, "Ibn ‘Abbas reported
that the Prophet was asked about the thunder. He answered, ‘It is an angel
entrusted with the clouds. He has entwined shreds of fire with which he drives
the clouds and the angels, in awe of God.’ Another opinion says that the
pronoun him refers to the thunder itself."
Al-Tirmidhi brought out, quoting Ibn
‘Abbas, that "the Jews came to Muhammad and said, ‘Tell us about the
thunder. What is it?’ He said, ‘One of the angels who is entrusted with the
clouds. He has entwined shreds of fire with which he drives the clouds wherever
God wills.’ They asked, ‘What is this sound, then, which is heard?’ He said,
‘It is his rebuke to the clouds, that they should stop where they have been
commanded.’ They said, ‘You have spoken the truth!’" (Abd al-Fadi, Is
the Qur’an Infallible? [Light of Life, P.O. Box 13, A-9503 Villach,
Austria], p. 27)
RESPONSE
The prophet here did not explicitly mean
that thunder is an angel, he meant that thunder is brought by the angel, by
God's command. The Jews asked the prophet what is thunder, he said it is one of
the angels entrusted with the cloud, in other words the thunder is brought by
the angels, such as the arch-angel Michael who brings down thunder and
lightening.
The problem with the above claims is that
thunder "is the sound of the shockwave caused when lightning instantly
heats the air around it to up to 30 000 °C (54 000 °F). That super-heated air
expands rapidly, then contracts as it cools. The rapid expansion/contraction
generates sound waves, making the sound that is called ‘thunder.’"
(Source: Wikipedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunder>) In
particular, thunder is merely a side effect of lightning, not an
independent agent.
RESPONSE
Yes, and this is caused by the angel,
again the prophet did not explicitly mean that the thunder is an angel, rather
the thunder is brought by an angel, the angel entrusted with the clouds, the
angel who brings lighting and thunder, i.e. the arch-angel Michael.
Moreover, no physicist or meteorologist
would support the claim that thunder is driving the clouds. It is the wind that
does so, and wind is caused by temperature and pressure differences (see Wikipedia
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind>). Thunder can neither make a
cloud move in any significant way nor can it stop one.
RESPONSE
Thunder is not an angel, it is an angel
that causes the lighting and thunder, and this angel is entrusted with the
cloud, it is this angel that is driving the clouds. To make things simple, we
put it in point form:
1- God has an angel
2- God gives a task to this angel
3- This angel is entrusted with the clouds
4- The angel brings lighting and thunder
5- The angel drives the clouds
That is all. No scientific errors here.
End of Muslim's rebuttal
Continuing
with my response:
But the funniest thing about this objection of yours (Answering-Islam) is that
your very own Bible says that Thunder is
Gods
voice:
Job 37:2
"Hear attentively the thunder of
His voice,And the rumbling that
comes from His mouth."
Psalm
77:18
"...the lightning’s lightened the world: the earth trembled and
shook."
According to these verses, Gods voice is thunder, and it trembles
and shakes the earth!
Job 37:4
"After it a voice roars;He thunders
with His majestic voice, And He does not restrain them when His voice is heard."
Job 37:5
"God
thunders marvelously with His
voice;He does great things which we cannot comprehend"
Job 40:9
Have
you an arm like God?Or can you thunder
with a voice like His?
Some people even called themselves “Sons of thunder”:
Mark 3:17
James
the son of Zebedee and John the brother of James, to whom He gave the name
Boanerges, that is,
“Sons of Thunder”;
And even more funnier, YOUR BIBLE AGREES that Angels send the censer down to
earth, causing thunder, lightning:
Revelation 8:5 "..the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of
the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices,
and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.
God sending thunder is an error according to A-i.com:
1 Samuel 2:10
The adversaries of the LORD shall be broken in pieces;From heaven He
will thunder against them. The LORD will
judge the ends of the earth. “He will give strength to His king, And exalt the
horn of His anointed.”
Is this verse also an error? Islam states that an angel guides the thunder, but
his Bible claims that GOD sends thunders from Heaven (Probably universe). I am
not saying that this Biblical verse is an error, but Answering-Islam is!
(I.e. He said that it’s an error because,
according to him “Mother nature” does all the work, and angels guiding the
thunder/clouds is an error)
2 Samuel 22:14
“The LORD thundered from
heaven,And the Most High uttered His voice.
Answering-Islam claims to understand the thunder, and how it works, while his
Bible says "Who can
understand the spreading
of clouds, the thunder from his CANOPY":
Job 36:29
Indeed,
can anyone understand the spreading of
clouds,The
thunder from His canopy?
Job 26:14
Indeed these are the mere edges of His ways,And how small a whisper we hear of
Him!
But
the thunder of His power who can understand?”
Some scientist are even unsure about this issue:
According to the University Corporation for Atmopsheric Research's FAQ on
Thunder and Lightning, it seems that even the scientists are
unsure (emphasis added):
"Why does
lightning enhance the global electric field instead of dispelling it?
The answer lies in the structure of
thunderstorms. For reasons unclear --but probably involving millions of
collisions among ice crystals and small hailstones or graupel--storms evolve
with positive charge near the top and negative charge from middle to cloud
base.
How does charge
get separated inside a thunderstorm to create lightning?
Clouds vary greatly in their ability to
become electrified and produce lightning, and the process of charge separation
still puzzles scientists.
What are the
different kinds of lightning flashes?
Once enough charge has been separated in a
growing storm, a lightning flash can occur. These normally travel within or
between clouds (abbreviated CC) or from cloud to ground (CG). Most storms
produce more CC than CG flashes--about six times as many in tropical storms and
two times as many in midlatitudes. Sometimes a flash will travel from cloud to
air or simply occur within "clear" air.
Exactly what
triggers flashes is still uncertain and an area of continued research. It seems that
very concentrated electric fields (perhaps at the ends of pointed surfaces or
single particles) are needed to accelerate charged particles, or ions. Once
moving with sufficient energy, the ions appear to blaze a path toward opposite
charge in cascading fashion."
And UCAR aren't the only ones. In an
article written for The Tucson Weekly, Gregory
McNamee describes the thunder process (for want of a better phrase) thus
(emphasis added):
As it fills with water, it grows: cumulus
cloud becomes cumulus congestus, then cumulonimbus, the towering anvil-head
formation that marks a midsummer's skyscape in Tucson.
Strange things are happening within that
mixture of rising air and moisture. At the top of the cloud, 30,000 feet in the
air, the temperature is 60 degrees below zero. There ice crystals, carrying a
positive electrical charge, float and collide. At the much warmer bottom,
particles of water, also positively charged, swirl about. Somewhere in the
middle lies a zone, at about 10 degrees Fahrenheit, made up of
"graupel," ice crystals coated with water and hail that rise and fall
with the air currents.
For reasons that
atmospheric scientists do not quite understand but are avidly pondering, this graupel
has acquired a negative electrical charge somewhere along the way. As it does
so, and when, as UA atmospheric-science researcher Martin Murphy says,
"other special conditions are met," the action begins. Those
"special conditions" include the presence of at least a cubic
kilometer of graupel or hail in the cumulonimbus cloud's 10-degree band--enough
to cover the University of Arizona campus more than half a mile deep.
Let’s take a look at what Tafsir Jalalayn
said:
"And the thunder —
this is
an
angel,
who is in charge of the clouds,
driving them, [while he]
constantly, proclaims His praise, that is, he says, ‘Glory be to God through
His praise’ (subhana’Llah wa-bi-hamdihi), and so too the angels, proclaim His
praise, in awe of Him, that is, of God.
He unleashes the thunderbolts —
these are a fire which issues forth from the
clouds — and smites with them whom He will, such that it burns [that person]:
this was revealed regarding a man to whom the Prophet (s) had sent someone to
invite [to Islam] and who said, ‘Who is the Messenger of God? And what is God?
Is He [made] of gold, or of silver, or of copper?’, whereupon a thunderbolt
came down on him and blew off the top of his head; yet they, that is, the
disbelievers, dispute, argue with the Prophet (s), about God, though He is
great in might, in power, or in [the severity of His] retribution."
How can Answering-Islam refute this when
this is of the unseen? What is the scientific problem here?
I am aware that there may be scientific explanations of how the thunder
works, but how does this disprove that an angel isn’t the guide of
the clouds and thunders?? It is (Ghayb) something from the unseen!
They may object “The WINDS cause
the…”
and “The
clouds cause…” as if we Muslims didn’t know this, but the point to note here is; HOW
can A-I disprove that there isn’t an angel driving the winds and clouds and
causing thunder with the help of nature?
Until recently, ALL Christians thought
that Satan is causing Natural disasters such as “Tornados”.
Even his Bible agrees
with the quotes he provided:
John 12:29
Therefore the people who stood by and heard it said that
it had thundered.
Others said, “An angel has spoken to Him.”
Revelation 19:6
And I heard, as it were, the voice of a great multitude, as the sound of many waters
and as the sound of mighty thunderings,
saying, “Alleluia! For the Lord God Omnipotent reigns!
Is this an error? NO absolutely NOT, but
according to A-I.com this is a CLEAR cut error.
Answering-Islam wrote:
The Earth
Several thousand years ago, the Holy Bible
clearly recorded that the earth is round and that it is hung on nothing.
"It is He who sits above the circle
of the earth" (Isa. 40:22).
"He stretches out the north over empty space; He hangs the earth on nothing" (Job 26:7).
My response:
I would like to challenge you to disprove
this:
1 Samuel
2:8
"The
pillars of the earth are the
LORD's, and he hath set
the world upon
them.
VS
"He
stretches out the north over empty space;
He
hangs the earth on nothing" (Job 26:7).
Let’s examine which statement is truer according to the Bible:
(1 Chronicles 16:30) "The earth ... shall be stable, that it be
not moved."
This further proves that the earth is
established on pillars.
(Job 9:6)
Which shaketh the
earth out of her place, and the
pillars thereof tremble.
Job 38:4 Where
wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Job 38:13 "That it might take hold of
the ends of the earth, that
the wicked might
be shaken out of it."
Does a sphere have ends, and can people fall of the earth?
(Psalms 18:15) “Then
the channels of waters were seen,
and the foundations of the world were
discovered at thy rebuke, O LORD, at the blast of the breath of thy
nostrils.”
There are several other verses speaking about a stable earth with pillars! The
ones I have provided are enough to prove my point!
I Challenge you to clarify this!
Answering-Islam wrote:
Yet,
the Qur’an challenges these established scientific facts. In many places, it
alludes to the fact that the earth is flat and its mountains are like poles
which create a balance so that the Earth does not tilt. Let us consider what
the Qur’an says about the Earth:
In chapter 88:17,20, it is recorded,
"Will they not regard the camels how
they are created...and the Earth how it is spread?"
In page 509, the Jalalan says,
"In his phrase, ‘how it is spread’,
he denotes that the earth is flat. All
the scholars of Islamic law agree upon this. It is not round as the physicists
claim."
The Qur’anic teaching is obvious from the
comment of Jalalan that "the earth is flat and not round as the scientists
claim". What made Jalal al-Din say so is that the Qur’an hints in many
chapters that the earth is flat(refer to 19:6, 79:30, 18:7, and 21:30). Also
the Qur’an indicates that:
"We have placed in the earth firm
hills lest it quake so as not to sway and hurt people" (21:31).
Scholars who agree upon the meaning of
this verse believe as the Jalalan states (pp. 270-271),
"God has founded firm mountains on
earth lest it shake people."
On page 429, al-Baydawi says,
"God has made firm mountains on earth
lest it sway people and quake. He also made heaven as a ceiling and kept it
from falling down!"
The Zamakhshari agrees with the above
authors and reiterates the same words (refer to Zamakhshari part 3, p. 114).
In the Qur’an (chapter 50:7), we find
another verse which carries the same meaning,
"And the earth have we spread out,
and have flung firm hills therein" (Surah Qaf: 7).
This is accompanied by the same comment by
the above Muslim scholars (refer to Jalalan, p. 437; Baydawi, p. 686, Tabari,
p. 589, and Zamakhshari, part 4, p. 381). All of them assure us that "if
it were not for these unshakable mountains, the earth would slip away."
Zamakhshari, the Baydawi and the Jalalan
say: "God has built heaven without pillars but He placed unshakable
mountains on Earth lest it tilts with people." Concerning chapter 50:7,
the Suyuti says that scholars indicate that "Qaf is a mountain which
encompasses the entire earth" (refer to Itqan, part 3, p. 29). Qaf is an
Arabic L like K.
These are the comments of the ancient Muslim scholars word for word. Even some Saudi scholars wrote a book a few years ago to disprove the spherical aspect of the earth and they claimed that it is a myth, agreed with the above mentioned scholars, and said we must believe the Qur’an and reject the spherical aspect of the earth.
My
response:
Unanimous consensus of ALL Muslim
scholars:
The
earth is round!
Again Answering-Islam
only relies on Islamic ancient scholars to disprove the Qur'an, well let’s
see what some other medieval scholars said about the earth according to the
Qur'an:
Ibn
Taymiyah (d. 728 H / 1328 CE), may Allah be merciful with him, in his famous
treatise, ar-Risalah al-'Arshiyah, refutes the position of the neo- Platonic
philosophers who identified Allah's Throne with the ninth celestial sphere
(Majmu'ul-Fatawa, Vol. 6, pp. 546-ff). In the course of his response, Ibn
Taymiyah discusses the question of the earth is it round or flat? He writes:
"[That]
celestial bodies are round (istidaaratul-aflaak) - as it is the statement of
astronomers and mathematicians (ahlul-hay'ah wal-hisab) - it is [likewise] the
statement of the scholars of the Muslims; as Abul-Hasan ibn al-Manaadi, Abu
Muhammad ibn Hazm, Abul-Faraj ibn al-Jawzi and others have quoted: that the
Muslim scholars are in agreement [that all celestial bodies are round]. Indeed
Allah - taala - has said: And He (i.e., Allah) it is Who created the night and
the day, the sun and the moon. They float, each in a falak (The Noble Quran,
21:33). Ibn Abbas says: A falaka like that of a spinning wheel."
Ibn
Taymiyah continues: "The [word] falak [in the Arabic language] means that
which is round. From which is the statement [of the Arabs]: 'The young girl's
breasts have ta-fa-la-ka when they become round.'" (Vol. 6, pp. 566-567)
In
an earlier passage (Vol. 6, pp. 565-566), Ibn Taymiyah discusses why those on
the other side of the earth are not below us, just like we are not below them.
He writes:
"As
for the other side of the earth it is surrounded by water. [Note: Admittedly,
Ibn Taymiyah - as all Muslim scholars of his day- were not aware of the
Americas and believed that the Old World was encompassed by an ocean.] There
are no human beings or anything like that [on that side]. Even if we were to
imagine that people were on that side of the earth, such individuals would
still be on the face of the earth. Those on that side of the earth are not below
those who are on this side; just like those on this side are not below those on
that side. For as all spherical bodies surround a center point (markaz), no one
side of a spherical body is under the other, nor is the north pole under the
south [Note: Unlike Western maps, Muslim cartographers (map-makers) would draw
the world with the south-side up.] or vice versa.
In
another passage (Vol. 5, p. 150) Ibn Taymiyah clearly states the earth is
spherical.
"Significantly
Abu Ya'la in his work Tabaqatal-Hanabilah (Biographical Entries of the Hanabali
Scholars) quotes
the
unanimous consensus (ijma) of all
Muslim scholars that the earth is round.
This
consensus was mentioned by the scholars of the second generation (the students
of the Prophet's Companions) and was based upon Ibn Abbas' explanation to 21:33
(previously cited) and other evidences.
The
later belief of Muslim scholars, like as-Suyuti (died 911 AH / 1505 CE) that
the earth is flat represents a deviation from this earlier opinion."
He also said: "Zamakhshari, the Baydawi and the Jalalan say: "God has
built heaven without pillars but He placed unshakable mountains on Earth lest
it tilts with people." Concerning chapter 50:7,
the Suyuti says
that scholars indicate that "Qaf is a mountain which encompasses the
entire earth" (refer to Itqan, part 3, p. 29). Qaf is an Arabic L like K."
My
response:
Actually the letter 'Qaf' does not
occur in ayat 50:7, it appears on its own in ayat 50:1. Nor is it an Arabic L, it is normally written as Q. I note that with this, and indeed
all of the references given in this article, not a single link is given for the
reader to verify these facts for themselves. Even if they provide the links, SO
WHAT? An error in one man's interpretation and it doesn't disprove the Qur'an
one bit!
I
also want to respond to:
"Even
some Saudi scholars wrote a book a few years ago to disprove the spherical
aspect of the earth and they claimed that it is a myth, agreed with the above
mentioned scholars, and said we must believe the Qur'an and reject the
spherical aspect of the earth."
I
found this on the net:
Apparently, Sheikh Abdel-Aziz Ibn Baaz, a
scholar from Saudi Arabia said this. Needless to say:
·
This 'fatwa' has
been copied onto every single anti-Islamic page possible,
·
Not a single link
has been provided to the source, and
·
I haven't found
any independant proof that this was ever said by the Sheikh.
And
yet it seems that this hoax has fooled just about everyone who is desperate
enough to believe anything bad written about Islam.
What
does the Qur'an actually say about the earth, apart from the ancient schollars
knowledge about science?:
In
79:30, Allah says,
[Transliteration] Waal-arda baAAda
thalika dahaha [79:30]
The key word
in the above verse is “dahaha”.
In Arabic, there is a phrase, “iza dahaha” which means “when he throws the
stones over the ground to the hole”. The hole is called “Udhiyatun”. “Almadahi”
signify round stones according to the size of which a hole is dug in the ground
in which the stones are thrown in a game. “Almadahi” also signify a round thing
made of lead by the throwing of which persons contend together. So there is a
signification of ROUNDNESS in the root of the word “dahaha”. According to some
etymologists, the word for the “egg of an ostrich” also has the same root as
“dahaha”. They also take from this that the earth is of the shape of the egg of
an ostrich. Latest science findings confirm that the earth is not exactly
spherical but the earth is an ellipsoid, i.e. flattened by its poles,[ just
like the shape of an egg of an ostrich].
The Arabic
words for “flat” or “level” or “straight shaped” are “sawi” and “almustavi”.
There is not a single place in Quran where there is any indication of the earth
being “flat” or “straight shaped”. The word “faraash” in 2:22, 51:48; the word
“wasia” in 4:97, 29:56, 30:10; the word “mahd” in 20:53, 43:10, 78:6; the word
“basaat” in 71:19; the word “suttihat” in 88:20; and the word “tahaaha” in
91:6, all may mean, “to spread”, “to expand” or “to extend” with slight
differences in their connotations but none signify the earth being
straight-shaped or flat.
As
for the seven earths A-I objected to, it is indeed a scientific fact, our
earth got 7 layers (7 Ard's), the word "Ard" got 2 meanings, one
is the entire earth, the other meaning is Land(s)
The 7
layers of earth and
iron was sent down from space.
There
is a hadith stating that a man will sink down the seven “Ards” on judgementday,
and this proves that “Ards” here is referring to the 7 layers of out earth, how
else can you SINK down the 7 “Ard”s?!
But I do NOT deny that there are 6 other earth’s in our space!
Answering-Islam wrote:
It
is also well-known that the Qur’an proclaims that there are seven earths—not
just one (refer to the commentary of the Jalalan, p. 476, al-Baydawi, p. 745 as
they interpret chapter 61:12, Surah Divorce: 1 2).
It is very clear that the sun does not
traverse the heaven and set down in a murky, muddy well, or slimy water, or a
place which contains both of them as the Baydawi, Zamakhshari, and the Qur’an
remark.
Nor is the earth flat and the mountains
the pillars and the towerings which prevent the earth from moving as the Qur’an
and the scholars said. Nor is there a mountain which encompasses the whole
earth—nor are there seven earths.
Neither is the lightning an angel whose name is Rafael, nor is the thunder an angel. It never happened that the angel Gabriel inspired Muhammad to write a complete chapter about his friend the angel thunder! The thunder and lightning are natural phenomena and not God’s angels like Michael and Gabriel as the prophet of Islam claims.
My response &
conclusion:
Indeed
you are a blasphemer, your Bible teaches all these things and you call it
errors, and I have refuted all of your objections against the holy wonderful
amazing Qur'an (Or more likely; your objections against some early schollars :-)
)!
May Allah bless our prophet and send peace upon him, may he guide us
all, and make our knowledge increase!
Ameen
What's new | A-Z | Discuss & Blog | Youtube
The Overwhelming Scientific Miracles in the Noble Quran section.
Abortion in Islam is a crime after the first 120 days!
Rebuttals, and exposing the lies of the Answering Islam team section.
Islam and the Noble Quran - Questions and Answers.
Contradictions and History of Corruption in the Bible.
Questions about Jesus that trinitarian Christians don't have logical answers for.
What parts of the Bible do Muslims believe are closest to the Truth? and Why?
"Allah" was GOD Almighty's original Name in the Bible according to the Hebrew and Aramaic sources.
Scientific Miracles in Islam and the Noble Quran.
Most of the Bible's books and gospels were written by mysterious people!
Jesus mentioned Muhammad by the name in the Bible.
Did Isaiah 53 really prophesies about the crucifixion of Jesus? It supports Islam's claims about Jesus peace be upon him never died on the cross. I also addressed John 19:36-37 from the Bible and proved that Jesus never got crucified, since GOD Almighty promised that he will protect Jesus' body and not let even a single bone be broken. My question to all Christians is: How in the world is it possible for the feet to get nailed on the cross without any penetration to the bones by the nails, hence breaking part of the feet's bones?! I also added refutations to Exodus 12:46, Numbers 9:12, Zechariah 12:10 and Psalm 34:20, which supposedly prove the Christians' belief about Jesus crucifixion. I proved that this dogma has no truth what so ever and exposed the wrong Trinitarian English translation of Zechariah 12:10.
Quran's STUNNING Divine Miracles: [1] Allah Almighty also promised in several Divine Prophecies that He will show the Glorious Quran's Miracles to mankind: 1- The root letters for "message" and all of its derivatives occur 513 times throughout the Glorious Quran. Yet, all Praise and Glory are due to Allah Almighty Alone, the Prophets' and Messengers' actual names (Muhammad, Moses, Noah, Abraham, Lot etc....) were also all mentioned 513 times in the Glorious Quran. The detailed breakdown of all of this is thoroughly listed here. This Miracle is covered in 100s (hundreds) of Noble Verses.2- Allah Almighty said that Prophet Noah lived for 950 years. Yet, all Praise and Glory are due to Allah Almighty Alone, the entire Noble Surah (chapter Noah) is exactly written in 950 Letters. You can thoroughly see the accurate count in the scanned images.Coincidence? See 1,000s of examples [1]. Quran's Stunning Numerical & Scientific Miracles. |
