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Where was the promised Holy Spirit in the disciples' apostatizing of each other??

The Romans had to fake fake his crucifixion due to Passover issues: [1]

Important Note:

Below in this article, we will see how David so carelessly killed an innocent man for only telling him news!!

After you finish reading this article, please visit:
Rebuttal to Jochen Katz' 2 Samuel 1:2-16 about justifying David's selective murders.
Further exposing his ridiculous bias and cover-ups to the Bible's unjust murders.

Refutation to the preposterous LIES of Jochen Katz about his Bible not containing inhumane murders from its Prophets!

The sections of this article are:

1-  The Preposterous lies by Jochen Katz:
2-  Listing of Murders, Pedophilia and Terrorism by the Bible's Prophets.

1-  The Preposterous lies by Jochen Katz:

This article is a rebuttal to "Answering Islam's" Jochen Katz' preposterous lies in http://www../Responses/Osama/lies1.htm.

He wrote:

Some of the many Lies and Misrepresentations spread by Osama Abdallah

Jochen Katz

I am usually not fast in calling anyone a liar. However, I am finally so sick of Osama Abdallah's never ending twisting of the Bible that I have decided to start this file, which will document how Osama lies about the Bible (Luke 2:52: GOD forgave Jesus' sins and was "charitable" with him). In this article, I will neither attempt to present detailed discussions of the passages that Abdallah abuses — careful interpretation of these passages are available in other places, whether on this site or on other Christian sites — nor will I discuss every issue found in the articles that I raise an objection about. I will quote excerpts of these articles and only point out how Abdallah makes obviously wrong claims for the sole purpose of slandering the Bible, and does this in such a shameless way, and so regularly, that these cases cannot be innocent oversights, but are definitely deliberate misrepresentations.

My response:

Before we begin, please be advised that at the very end of this article in section #2 below, you will see detailed listing of some of the inhumane murders, pedophilia and terrorism that was done by many of the Bible's Prophets.

Jochen Katz is not only a big liar for covering up for his horny and pornful bible; the book of women's vaginas and breasts taste like "wine", and brothers can lick and suck their sisters' and lovers' vaginas and breasts, but he is also disrespectful and arrogant for thinking that he can deceive his reader by partially quoting me and hiding the IRREFUTABLE verses in his Bible, by using "[....]" as seen below, that show clear and irrefutable:

1-  Pedophilia against 3-year old slave girls.  These girls were literally forced into sex during Moses' Law!!

2- Terrorism:   "kill all the boys and all non-virgin women".   Innocent captive children were slain in Jochen Katz' pornful bible, and yet, he and his team of hypocrites have the guts and the nerve to defend that, while in the same time attack Islam and Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him for killing ADULT enemies and not innocent children.

This article will shut Jochen Katz' loud mouth and clearly expose his hypocrisy and bias toward his horny and pornful bible.

It will also crush his arrogance and absurdity for partially quoting me.

Insha'Allah (if Allah Almighty is Willing).

Now to a direct answer to his above writings.....

Really?  Well I am glad that you're finally sick and tired of my site.  Let's see what your best shot is going to be like.  This article has already right from the very start exposed your hypocrisy and lies to your readers.  Ladies and gentlemen, notice his quote "In this article, I will neither attempt to present detailed discussions of the passages that Abdallah abuses...."   The parts that he will not discuss are the majority!  Not only they're the majority, but they're also the most DEVASTATING verses against his bible.

This liar obviously wants to minimize your chances of seeing them, while in the same time maximizing his deception and lies in a hope to fool you and make you think that his X-Rated Pornographic Bible doesn't contain any sort of murders, rapes and pedophilia in it what so ever.

While leaving Jochen Katz in his fantasy land, let us uncover the Truth that Katz and his likes want to hide....

He wrote:

Last year, when I exposed Abdallah's article, Islam's claim about the 360 joints in the human body was proven to be true!, not only to be wrong, but to be a hoax, he concluded that "This proves that I am doing a great job" because I was only objecting to one of the articles in his "Science" section (see this article). Before he comes back with a similarly ridiculous conclusion in response to this article, I need to state explicitly that my selection of the parts I am discussing does not mean that the remaining claims in his article(s) are correct. Partly they are already refuted elsewhere since Abdallah constantly recycles the same arguments, partly they may be errors of interpretation that are possibly misunderstandings, but still wrong. In this article I am only concerned about some obvious and deliberate lies.

My response:

First of all, let me correct this lie of yours for you, since you seem to like to glorify yourself and your victory over people; me in this case.  You never exposed any "hoax" on my site.  What happened was while I was developing my site throughout past years, I got into the habit of introducing articles and topics on my site and opened the door for brothers and sisters and others to contribute with quotes and information.

While I openly admitted and still admit (because I have nothing to fear) that I was wrong in not posting a WARNING MESSAGE on the top of the two articles, telling the reader that this article requires further investigation, but I assumed that it was pretty much self-explanatory and that my readers did understand my intentions because I got used to so many contributions to my site's articles.

The reason why I removed the two articles was not because Jochen Katz exposed me as he so hopelessly convinced himself to have accomplished, but rather because I finally came to the conclusion after so many debates on my previous message board right in front of Jochen Katz' eyes (since he was a participant on my board) that the Hadiths (the collections of Prophet Muhammad's Sayings) are like the Bible; they are filled with man's corruption.

I decided then to never rely solely on them to prove anything scientific, because their sources and authenticity are doubtful (just like the Bible).  I decided to only rely on the Noble Quran, and use any Hadith that directly agrees with our Holy Book.

To the reader, please visit:  What parts of the Bible and Hadiths do Muslims believe are closest to the Truth, and Why?

Also:  The NIV Bible's theologians and historians admit that most of the Bible's "Books" and "Gospels" are doubtful!  Their authors, dates and places of documentation are UNKNOWN.

I don't know about Jochen Katz, but I know that his readers and mine are both intelligent people.  No one comes to our sites without having the desire to do some serious research.  Our sites' topics are 100% into theology.  Theology researchers on the internet are in general not "stupid" people.  They are very smart and many of them are open-minded too.  In other words, they could not be hoaxed up by partial articles.

In the "Adam is 90 feet" article, the brother who sent me the article put all of the references and quotes from Hebrew University's Professor's Research.  But unfortunately, since this was a quote outside the Noble Quran, Bible and Hadiths, I could not easily verify it.  I therefore suspended the article and I am not planning on adding it back, even if the information was proven to be true, because

The Hadiths like I said above were proven to contain corruptions and man-alterations in them JUST LIKE THE BIBLE.  They're Truth is not Absolute and Perfect like the Noble Quran's.

He wrote:

I will start this compilation with Abdallah's latest addition to his site:

10/24/2004- I added a new article Prophet Muhammad is a Murderer for KILLING the enemies?  WHAT ABOUT THE BIBLE'S PROPHETS' MURDERS that were blessed by GOD?   Cutting the hands and feet of the enemies in the Bible, and hanging their alive bodies on trees until they DIE.  I also added Biblical verses showing the cutting of the hands and feet of the enemies by some of the Prophets of GOD Almighty in the Bible to the article Did Prophet Muhammad prescribe camel urine as medicine for headaches?

The first instance is Abdallah's attempt to "counter-balance" the reports about a rather cruel act of Muhammad:

Narrated Abu Qilaba:
Anas said, "Some people of 'Ukl or 'Uraina tribe came to Medina and its climate did not suit them. So the Prophet ordered them to go to the herd of (Milch) camels and to drink their milk and urine (as a medicine). So they went as directed and after they became healthy, they killed the shepherd of the Prophet and drove away all the camels. The news reached the Prophet early in the morning and he sent (men) in their pursuit and they were captured and brought at noon. He then ordered to cut their hands and feet (and it was done), and their eyes were branded with heated pieces of iron. They were put in 'Al-Harra' and when they asked for water, no water was given to them." Abu Qilaba said, "Those people committed theft and murder, became infidels after embracing Islam and fought against Allah and His Apostle." (Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 1, No. 234)

Narrated Anas:
Some people from 'Uraina tribe came to Medina and its climate did not suit them, so Allah's Apostle allowed them to go to the herd of camels (given as Zakat) and they drank their milk and urine (as medicine) but they killed the shepherd and drove away all the camels. So Allah's Apostle sent (men) in their pursuit to catch them, and they were brought, and he had their hands and feet cut, and their eyes were branded with heated pieces of iron and they were left in the Harra (a stony place at Medina) biting the stones. (Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 2, No. 577; similar references are found in 5.505, 7.623, and 8.797)

There is no question that Muhammad was recognized as the legal authority by his community, and as such he had the right to punish these thieves and murderers, even ordering capital punishment and having them put to death. The issue is Muhammad's excessive cruelty of cutting off their hands, feet, destroying their eyes, and letting them die of thirst in the scorching sun of Arabia. [A detailed discussion of this incident can be found in Silas' article, Muhammad and the Death of the Uraynians.] The following is Abdallah's response that is found in the above-mentioned papers:

2-  Maiming of enemies' bodies in an extremely brutal way in the Bibles:

Cutting the hands and feet and hanging the alive bodies until they DIE:

2 Samuel 4
10 when a man told me, 'Saul is dead,' and thought he was bringing good news, I seized him and put him to death in Ziklag. That was the reward I gave him for his news!
11 How much more-when wicked men have killed an innocent man in his own house and on his own bed-should I not now demand his blood from your hand and rid the earth of you!"
12 So David gave an order to his men, and they killed them. They cut off their hands and feet and hung the bodies by the pool in Hebron. But they took the head of Ish-Bosheth and buried it in Abner's tomb at Hebron.

Note to the reader:  Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him also ordered the cutting of hands and feet of enemies in one incident, because they pretended to have embraced Islam and then betrayed and killed Muslims.  The Prophet sent his men to chase them down, while they were running back to their tribe, and finally captured them and brought them back for punishment.  But the point is that you can't disprove Islam or any religion through incidents like this, especially when worse scenarios exist in your own Book!

Using this weasel's (Silas) logic and lies, we can ONLY and ONLY conclude that the Bible too is a false book and the GOD of the Bible does not exist, and the Biblical Prophets are liars.  Of course none of this is true as none of his false claims and charges against Islam are also true. (Source: https://www.answering-christianity.com/prophet_muhammad_not_murderer.htm)

RESPONSE:

O. Abdallah claims that the story in the Bible is WORSE than what Muhammad did, but he fails to explain in what way it is worse. However, the real problem with his comparison is that Abdallah lied about what really happened. He claims that this story reports an "extremely brutal" incident of "cutting the hands and feet and hanging the ALIVE bodies UNTIL THEY DIE".

This is false. The sequence of events reported in 2 Samuel 4:12 (quoted above) is clear: (1) these men were killed, (2) their hands and feet were cut off, and (3) their DEAD bodies were hung in a public place for display so that it will be clear to everyone in the country that David, the new king, will not let anyone get away with unlawfully killing anyone, not even David's enemies. [Note that Abdallah has removed essential parts from this story. For a fuller understanding of this incident, one needs to read at least 2 Samuel 4:1-12, or even better, the complete story of Saul and David beginning in 1 Samuel 8.] These opportunists expected to be rewarded by David for "helping the king", but they received instead the just punishment for murdering an innocent man. One may debate the meaning or necessity of cutting off their hands and feet and for making a public display of their dead bodies, but it is clear that there was no "extremely brutal" act of torture as in the example of Muhammad, and there was no "hanging the alive bodies until they die". This is merely Abdallah's shameless lie.

It is not clear if the maimed bodies were hanged on the trees before or after they were fully dead.  This is why I took the worst-case-scenario and used it against the bible; that is the bodies were still alive when they were hanged.  Also, since David killed them, then they technically became his enemies.  It doesn't matter whether they were Israelites or not.

I also want the reader to know that I couldn't thank Jochen Katz enough for shooting himself in the foot, not because of anything personal, but rather, because he further helped me to prove that the Bible is bogus and inconsistent.  In the following, everyone will see how David was a sick and careless murderer for selectively killing an innocent man for only telling him news about the death of Saul! 

Let us carefully read 2 Samuel 4, but before that let us read 1 Samuel 24:7-9:

1 Samuel 24
7 With these words David rebuked his men and did not allow them to attack Saul. And Saul left the cave and went his way.
8 Then David went out of the cave and called out to Saul, "My lord the king!" When Saul looked behind him, David bowed down and prostrated himself with his face to the ground.
9 He said to Saul, "Why do you listen when men say, 'David is bent on harming you'?

Now let's read the short chapter of 1 Samuel 24.  Pay close attention to the bolded and underlined parts below:

2 Samuel 4

Ish-Bosheth Murdered

1 When Ish-Bosheth son of Saul heard that Abner had died in Hebron, he lost courage, and all Israel became alarmed.
2 Now Saul's son had two men who were leaders of raiding bands. One was named Baanah and the other Recab; they were sons of Rimmon the Beerothite from the tribe of Benjamin-Beeroth is considered part of Benjamin,
3 because the people of Beeroth fled to Gittaim and have lived there as aliens to this day.
4 (Jonathan son of Saul had a son who was lame in both feet. He was five years old when the news about Saul and Jonathan came from Jezreel. His nurse picked him up and fled, but as she hurried to leave, he fell and became crippled. His name was Mephibosheth.)
5 Now Recab and Baanah, the sons of Rimmon the Beerothite, set out for the house of Ish-Bosheth, and they arrived there in the heat of the day while he was taking his noonday rest.
6 They went into the inner part of the house as if to get some wheat, and they stabbed him in the stomach. Then Recab and his brother Baanah slipped away.
7 They had gone into the house while he was lying on the bed in his bedroom. After they stabbed and killed him, they cut off his head. Taking it with them, they traveled all night by way of the Arabah.
8 They brought the head of Ish-Bosheth to David at Hebron and said to the king, "Here is the head of Ish-Bosheth son of Saul, your enemy, who tried to take your life. This day the LORD has avenged my lord the king against Saul and his offspring."
9 David answered Recab and his brother Baanah, the sons of Rimmon the Beerothite, "As surely as the LORD lives, who has delivered me out of all trouble,
10 when a man told me, 'Saul is dead,' and thought he was bringing good news, I seized him and put him to death in Ziklag. That was the reward I gave him for his news!
11 How much more-when wicked men have killed an innocent man in his own house and on his own bed-should I not now demand his blood from your hand and rid the earth of you!"
12 So David gave an order to his men, and they killed them. They cut off their hands and feet and hung the bodies by the pool in Hebron. But they took the head of Ish-Bosheth and buried it in Abner's tomb at Hebron.

Few points to notice from the above verses:

1-  David and Saul became friends once again after the incident inside the cave.  Read 1 Samuel 24.

2-  David didn't like the idea that two of his men killed Saul's son, Ish-Bosheth.  He punished them to death.

3-  David SO UNJUSTLY killed an innocent man for only telling him that Saul died!  Saul died because of the old animosity between him and David.  David's men, not knowing that the two reconciled, killed Saul in the battle, who was fighting against them, and thought they were pleasing David.  A messenger from them rushed to tell David about what they thought was "the good news," and David decided to unjustly kill the messenger who anyway had nothing to do with the killing of Saul.  AND EVEN IF HE DID, THAT STILL WOULDN'T JUSTIFY HIS KILLING!   See the rebuttal below for more details.

Please visit:
Rebuttal to Jochen Katz' 2 Samuel 1:2-16 about justifying David's selective murders.

I'd like Jochen Katz, the hypocrite, to tell us: WHERE IS THE DIVINE JUSTICE in David's selective murder of an innocent man in point #3 above?

How is David better than Prophet Muhammad when he killed an innocent man for NO REASON??!!

Produce the evidence that Prophet Muhammad SELECTIVELY killed an innocent man!

He wrote:

And it doesn't become any more true by repeating a similar charge in the second article published on the same day:

First let us look at the Sayings (Hadiths) of our beloved Prophet that dealt with camel urine:

Narrated Abu Qilaba: "Anas said, "Some people of 'Ukl or 'Uraina tribe came to Medina and its climate did not suit them. So the Prophet ordered them to go to the herd of (Milch) camels and to drink their milk and urine (as a medicine). So they went as directed and after they became healthy, they killed the shepherd of the Prophet and drove away all the camels. The news reached the Prophet early in the morning and he sent (men) in their pursuit and they were captured and brought at noon. He then ordered to cut their hands and feet (and it was done), and their eyes were branded with heated pieces of iron, They were put in 'Al-Harra' and when they asked for water, no water was given to them." Abu Qilaba said, "Those people committed theft and murder, became infidels after embracing Islam and fought against Allah and His Apostle .  (Sahih Bukhari, Ablutions (Wudu'), Volume 1, Book 4, Number 234)"

Cutting the hands and feet of the enemy in the Bibles:

Before we proceed, it is important to know that the Bible's Prophets too did similar punishment (cutting hands and feet of the enemy):

2 Samuel 4
10 when a man told me, 'Saul is dead,' and thought he was bringing good news, I seized him and put him to death in Ziklag. That was the reward I gave him for his news!
11 How much more-when wicked men have killed an innocent man in his own house and on his own bed-should I not now demand his blood from your hand and rid the earth of you!"
12 So David gave an order to his men, and they killed them. They cut off their hands and feet and hung the bodies by the pool in Hebron. But they took the head of Ish-Bosheth and buried it in Abner's tomb at Hebron. (Source: https://www.answering-christianity.com/urine.htm)

RESPONSE:

Abdallah managed to include several further ‘errors’ into this second version. He claims that "the Bible's Prophets too did similar punishment (cutting hands and feet of the enemy)". First, these people were not David's enemies. They actually did what they did because they wanted to be David's friends! This will be obvious to anyone who reads the full story in 2 Samuel 4:1-12. They wanted to receive a reward from David for killing a man whom they believed was an enemy to David. They were punished by David not because they were his enemies, but because a just king has to punish all crimes, even if they are committed by friends.

Second, Osama speaks in the plural, "the Bible's Prophets", as if this was the usual behavior of ALL the prophets in the Bible. This is another serious lie. There is not even one prophet in the Bible who did to his enemies what Muhammad did to the Uraynian shepherds.

My response:

Once again,

I'd like Jochen Katz, the hypocrite, to tell us: WHERE IS THE DIVINE JUSTICE in David's selective murder of an innocent man in point #3 above?

How is David better than Prophet Muhammad when he killed an innocent man for NO REASON??!!

Produce the evidence that Prophet Muhammad SELECTIVELY killed an innocent man!

He wrote:

However, that is not all of Abdallah's Bible-twisting published on 24 October 2004. In his first article, we also find these statements:

1-  The murders of the Bible's Prophets:

In his list of nonsensical articles, Silas of the "Answering Islam" team, wrote a number of articles inventing lies against Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him while so hypocritically ignoring the same incidents ("murders" as he called them) that happened from the Bible's own Prophets!

Let us look at few examples of the Biblical Prophets' "murders":

Exodus 2
13 The next day he went out and saw two Hebrews fighting. He asked the one in the wrong, "Why are you hitting your fellow Hebrew?"
14 The man said, "Who made you ruler and judge over us? Are you thinking of killing me as you killed the Egyptian?" Then Moses was afraid and thought, "What I did must have become known."
15 When Pharaoh heard of this, he tried to kill Moses, but Moses fled from Pharaoh and went to live in Midian, where he sat down by a well.

[...]

Killing Innocent Children:

[...]

Exodus 13
14 "In days to come, when your son asks you, 'What does this mean?' say to him, 'With a mighty hand the LORD brought us out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
15 When Pharaoh stubbornly refused to let us go, the LORD killed every firstborn in Egypt, both man and animal. This is why I sacrifice to the LORD the first male offspring of every womb and redeem each of my firstborn sons.'
16 And it will be like a sign on your hand and a symbol on your forehead that the LORD brought us out of Egypt with his mighty hand."

While I fully understand GOD Almighty's Wisdom in these verses, but using the team of clowns' (Answering Islam) logic, this makes the Bible as a false book and a book of terror. (Source: https://www.answering-christianity.com/prophet_muhammad_not_murderer.htm)

I will begin with the second part of the above-quoted excerpt. Christians agree with Muslims that God is the Lord over life and death. It is God's prerogative as our Creator to take away life at any time, whether it is the life of an old person or that of a young child. God has given all of us life, he can also take it away. Every day, thousands of children die due to traffic accidents, diseases, malnutrition, physical abuse, wars, or even for unknown reasons.

It has never ever been the argument of Answering Islam to blame Muhammad when God took away the life of children. Abdallah's ‘counter-attack’ on the Bible is completely ridiculous. This particular passage is listed by him under the main heading "The murders of the Bible's Prophets:" and the subheading "Killing Innocent Children:", i.e. for Abdallah this passage is proof that the prophets of the Bible killed innocent children. This is again a blatant lie. Not one of these "firstborn of the Egyptians" was killed by a prophet, not even by an Israelite, not even by a human being. It was God who took their lives.

Furthermore, Abdallah admits that he knows very well what these verses mean, but he still twists them and lies about them, since he is so absolutely desperate to slander the Bible in any way he can (and he is quite imaginative in doing so), hoping it would in some way justify the problems inherent in Islam. [Actually, his claim that he "fully understands GOD Almighty's wisdom" is basically blasphemous, even though he qualifies his statement in so far as he only claims to understand the totality of God's wisdom that is found "in these verses".]

Well, let's turn to the first part of the above-quoted text. Yes, Moses was guilty of killing an Egyptian. However, Abdallah has again cut off essential parts of the story. Read Exodus 2:11-15 to get the background. The Egyptian was beating one of the Hebrew slaves -- which may or may not have resulted in the death of the slave. Moses saw this and killed the Egyptian to rescue the Israelite. In the end, Moses had to flee and to live in exile for forty years because of this deed. Whatever it was, it was not "premeditated murder" for his own selfish gain, but was done in defense of a weak person, and resulted in Moses losing everything he had at that time (see also Luke 2:52: GOD forgave Jesus). Thus, this incident is hardly comparable to Muhammad, who ordered his men to slaughter his personal enemies, including old people and women, simply because they had made fun of him and told others not to believe in him! For details, consult the section Muhammad and his enemies.

Furthermore, this happened many years before Moses was called to become a prophet of God. He was not a prophet when this happened. Muhammad, on the other hand, had his personal enemies slaughtered while being a prophet, and because they questioned his prophethood. That is certainly a rather important difference as well.

My response:

First of all ladies and gentlemen, notice how this hypocrite TOOK OUT from my quotes!   He only presented partial ones.  Notice the [...] brackets that he inserted above to fool the reader.  Those missing parts are what the following are with their details emphasized in my articles:

Jochen Katz, the liar, purposely omitted those parts, and so foolishly shot himself in the foot above to only PRESENT THE FALSE PICTURE about his horny and pornful bible; the book of women's vaginas and breasts taste like "wine", and brothers can lick and suck their sisters' and lovers' vaginas and breasts, to the reader.

I've heard so much garbage from Christians before about Prophet Muhammad!

The reason why I presented all of the verses above was to ask those weasels if using their own logic, can we also conclude that their Bible and its Prophets are also false, since murderers were chosen to be Messengers of GOD Almighty?

My question to Jochen Katz here is:
Were the murderers in the Bible who were chosen as Prophets by GOD Almighty liars?

By the way, I am not in anyway suggesting or agreeing with the false lies that Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him was a murderer.  I have debunked this lie with thorough details at:

Detailed Refutations to Craig Winn's "Prophet of Doom" book.

Bring us the proofs, Jochen Katz, about our beloved and merciful Prophet killing innocent children.

2-  Listing of Murders, Pedophilia and Terrorism by the Bible's Prophets:

Back to My Rebuttals, and exposing the lies of the Answering Islam team section.

Rebuttals to Jochen Katz' articles.

The Dumpster section.

More deliberate and preposterous lies by Jochen Katz and another clown of his, Quennel Gale!

Rebuttal to Jochen Katz' 2 Samuel 1:2-16 about justifying David's selective murders.  Further exposing his ridiculous bias and cover-ups to the Bible's unjust murders.

X-Rated Pornography in the Bible (Luke 2:52: GOD forgave Jesus' sins and was "charitable" with him).

Pedophilia against 3-year old slave girls in the Bible (Luke 2:52: GOD forgave Jesus' sins and was "charitable" with him).

Send your comments.

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Where was the promised Holy Spirit in the disciples' apostatizing of each other??

The Romans had to fake fake his crucifixion due to Passover issues: [1]

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