The Crucifixion of Judas

[QuranSearchCom]

As'salamu Alaikum dear brother Tariq and Everyone,

Thank you for reminding me about this dialogue.  I will insha'Allah resume posting answers to brother Jesus.breadoflife tomorrow, insha'Allah (if Allah Almighty is Willing).

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

[Wizdom]

Jazak'Allah Khair brother Osama, Insha'Allah

[QuranSearchCom]

Dear Brother Osama,

Apologies for the late reply.

Jesus is one in the Father.  Yes.  But Jesus also said that his followers are one in him, and he is one in them, and they are one in the Father, and all of the Believers are one in the Father [2].  Why did you ignore this part?  Are you deliberatly trying to fool or mislead the reader?

Could you please clarify which verse you are referring to that says believers and God are one?  Jesus said that he and the Father are one. [John 10:30 - I and the Father are one The Bible does say that God will live in those who love and obey Him and put his Spirit in them.
John 14:23 - Jesus replied, ‘Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.
Ezekiel 36:26 - I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.

My dear brother Jesus.breadoflife, it is beyond clear that you are a victim of the paganism and blasphemy of trinity.  One thing that I really humbly want to ask you, and that is to actually read the sources that I give you, because I believe everything about the blasphemy of trinity had been soundly refuted in the arguments and links that I gave above.

Regarding all in GOD Almighty are One, and GOD Almighty is One in all Believers, EXACTLY AS JESUS AND GOD ARE ONE, here is the verse:

John 17
......
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

A Plea to All Christians:

I ask you and ask every Christian in the Holy Name of GOD Almighty to actually READ your entire New Testament from Matthew to Revelation!  Picking verses off of pamphlets or  "cheat-sheets" that are handed to you by missionaries to quote verses left and right from them, and make baseless arguments will only doom you to Hell.  Not saying that Jesus.breadoflife is doing that here.  But the shallow and out-of-context arguments that trinitarians continue to present are just too pathetic, and also demonstrate their lack of knowledge about their own Scriptures by the wholesale.  I wouldn't be exaggerating if I say that it is a case of the blind leading the blind, or (sorry to say that) the dumb leading the dumb!  As Allah Almighty Said in the Glorious Quran:

[002:018]  Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path).

[002:171]  The parable of those who reject Faith is as if one were to shout Like a goat- herd, to things that listen to nothing but calls and cries: Deaf, dumb, and blind, they are void of wisdom.

[017:097]  It is he whom God guides, that is on true Guidance; but he whom He leaves astray - for such wilt thou find no protector besides Him. On the Day of Judgment We shall gather, them together, prone on their faces, blind, dumb, and deaf: their abode will be Hell: every time it shows abatement, We shall increase from them the fierceness of the Fire.

GOD Almighty is ONE and ABSOLUTE ONE.  Jesus Christ is not even a bacteria when compared to GOD Almighty!  Jesus and all of the Prophets and EVERY THING created in the Universe are less than a microscopic bacteria when compared to GOD Almighty.  Jesus was no more than a GOD-FEARING Servant:

Isaiah 11:1-3
1. A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse; from his roots a Branch will bear fruit.
2. The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him (Jesus)-- the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of
counsel and of power, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD (Jesus fearing his GOD)--
3. and he will delight in the fear of the LORD. He will not judge by what he sees with his eyes, or decide by what he hears with his ears;"

Please visit: http://www.answering-christianity.com/spirit.htm to see the Spirit of GOD Almighty coming down upon many of the Righeous Believers.  But it is amazing that the Bible says that the spirit of FEARING GOD will rest upon Jesus, and yet we find pagans calling him the Creator of the Universe!

A dangerous mix of ignorance and blasphemy and inheritance of ancient 3-headed pagan religions that your fathers had and worshiped all mixed and blended together, which is what the polytheist trinitarian paganism and blasphemy is all about today.

Jesus is called the only begotten Son of God in the Bible. The Bible does not speak of any other only begotten Sons of God. Worship in the Bible does not mean to simply bow down before someone. Worshipping of the Lord comes from your spirit and it is giving praise to the almighty creator.

I already refuted this blasphemy in my rebuttal in the previous post.  Please visit: http://www.answering-christianity.com/son_of_god.htm.  Here are few examples:

Exodus 4:22 "Thus saith Jehovah, Israel is my son, even my firstborn."

Jeremiah 31:9 "I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn."

And in Genesis, where it speaks about Religions and people millions of years before Judaism, every Believer was also called SON OF GOD!  Also Angels were called Sons of GOD Almighty, and that they slept with the "daughters of men" and caused for giants to be born on earth.

Again, Jesus had to match Melchizedek:

Furthermore, like I mentioned, everything about Jesus Christ, peace be upon him, had to be this way (him being powerful, miraculous, born out of a virgin, mighty), because he had to at least match up to the Jews' Highest Priest Melchizedek who had no beginning and no end, and no father and no mother, and he was mighty and miraculous.

Furthermore, all of Jesus' miracles were performed by other Prophets in the Old Testament.  Please visit my previous post for all of the references.

Also as I already elaborated on in my previous post, "Son of GOD" means the Servant of GOD Almighty, and a pious Believer who has the Likeness of GOD Almighty:

Peace be upon you dear brother Jesus.breadoflife,

You are obviously a victim of the trinitarian blasphemeis.  It's really not that difficult to see from the New Testament how Jesus Christ, peace be upon him, is only a creation of GOD Almighty.

I do not wish to drag this too long, because I have a lot of things to do.  But all of your points above had been soundly and thoroughly refuted at: www.answering-christianity.com/at.htm.



Jesus and the Father are One:

Jesus is one in the Father.  Yes.  But Jesus also said that his followers are one in him, and he is one in them, and they are one in the Father, and all of the Believers are one in the Father [2].  Why did you ignore this part?  Are you deliberatly trying to fool or mislead the reader?



"Son of GOD" Title:

As to Jesus being the so-called "only begotten son of GOD Almighty", yes, and go to the Old Testament to see the other ONLY BEGOTTEN SONS OF GOD ALMIGHTY!  And even the Bible itself defines Son of GOD to mean a Righteous Believer and Servant of GOD Almighty.  Also, Jesus Chist reduced his "Son of GOD" title to be even BELOW the "God" (Elohim) title that is given to every single Believer.  The reader can visit: www.answering-christianity.com/convert_christians.htm for ample proofs from the NT.

As to Jesus being worshiped, you know very well that many others in the Old Testament were "worshiped" and bowed down to.  Worshiped in the Bible means to bow to the chosen leader or master and follow him.  It doesn't to pray to him or to worship him as GOD Almighty is Worshiped!  Again, are you trying to fool or mislead the reader with trinity-lies and blasphemies??



Definition of "The Father":

Furthermore, did you know that "Father" in Hebrew means The Supreme GOD Who Knows Everything?  Rabbis and Priests in the Bible and in Judaism are called "Father".  This is where Roman Catholics get the "Father" title for their Priests from.  This is also where Jesus Christ, peace be upon him, was called "Everlasting Father" [1] (Highest Priest or Rabbi or Teacher for being the Messiah and King of the Jews and all Earth) in Isaiah 9:6 [1] [2] [3] [4] comes from.  GOD Almighty being "The Father" means that GOD Almighty is the Supreme and All Knowing GOD Almighty of the Universe.  That's what Father means.  And Son means the Righteous Believer and Follower of GOD Almighty [1].

And again, Jesus Christ being called "Mighty God" in Isaiah 9:6 doesn't mean that he is GOD Almighty, because throughout the Bible, the Righteous Believers are all called "God" (Elohim) and "Sons of God".  Visit: http://www.answering-christianity.com/convert_christians.htm for ample proofs.

The reason why Jesus Christ, peace be upon him, was called MIGHTY God was because he is the Messiah, and the King of the Jews, and the coming Ruler of the entire Earth who will crush the anti-Christ.  He is the heir of all earth, and ONLY THE EARTH according to the Old and New Testaments of the Bible.  So he is no mere God.  He is a Mighty God.  But he is NOT the Creator of the Universe.  Besides, many Prophets and Angels were also given Mighty Godly Names similar to the one given to Christ.  Visit: http://www.answering-christianity.com/godtitle.htm for ample proofs.

Furthermore, the Bible declares that GOD Almighty created us in His Image.  The Bible further defines being in the "Image of GOD" means having the Attributes of GOD Almighty that He, the Almighty, Has put in us, humans.  Please visit: http://www.answering-christianity.com/let_us.htm for ample details and proofs.  This is another reason why GOD Almighty is symbolically called "The Father".  He is the Supreme GOD Almighty who created man in His Image, by giving him some of His Divine Attributes:

Genesis 1:26-27
26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

"For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.  (From the NIV Bible, Genesis 3:5)"

"and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.  (From the NIV Bible, Ephesians 4:24)"

"Then the LORD said to Moses, "See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet.   (From the NIV Bible, Exodus 7:1)"

"On that day the LORD will shield those who live in Jerusalem, so that the feeblest among them will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the Angel of the LORD going before them.  (From the NIV Bible, Zechariah 12:8 )"

Again, please visit: http://www.answering-christianity.com/let_us.htm for ample more details and proofs.



Jesus had to match Melchizedek:

And furthermore, did you know that Jesus Christ had to be this way (miraculous, has authority, and is powerful), because he needed to match up with Melchizedek?  Melchizedek had no father and no mother (Jesus at least had a mother), and he was the Highest Jewish Priest.  And he was Eternal.  Jesus had to at least be equal to Melchizedek.  See: Genesis 14:18, Psalm 110:4, Hebrews 5:6-10, Hebrews 6:20, Hebrews 7:1-20:

Genesis 14:18
18 Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine. He was priest of God Most High,


Psalm 110:4
4 The Lord has sworn
    and will not change his mind:
“You are a priest forever,
    in the order of Melchizedek.”


Hebrews 5:6-10
6 And he says in another place,

“You are a priest forever,
    in the order of Melchizedek.”[a]

7 During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission.
8 Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered
9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him
10 and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek.


Hebrews 6:20
20 where our forerunner, Jesus, has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.


Hebrews 7:1-20
Melchizedek the Priest
1 This Melchizedek was king of Salem and priest of God Most High. He met Abraham returning from the defeat of the kings and blessed him,
2 and Abraham gave him a tenth of everything. First, the name Melchizedek means “king of righteousness”; then also, “king of Salem” means “king of peace.”

3 Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, resembling the Son of God, he remains a priest forever.

4 Just think how great he was: Even the patriarch Abraham gave him a tenth of the plunder!
5 Now the law requires the descendants of Levi who become priests to collect a tenth from the people—that is, from their fellow Israelites—even though they also are descended from Abraham.
6 This man, however, did not trace his descent from Levi, yet he collected a tenth from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises.
7 And without doubt the lesser is blessed by the greater.
8 In the one case, the tenth is collected by people who die; but in the other case, by him who is declared to be living.
9 One might even say that Levi, who collects the tenth, paid the tenth through Abraham,
10 because when Melchizedek met Abraham, Levi was still in the body of his ancestor.

Jesus Like Melchizedek
11 If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood—and indeed the law given to the people established that priesthood—why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron?
12 For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also.
13 He of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, and no one from that tribe has ever served at the altar.
14 For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests.
15 And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears,
16 one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life (another proof Jesus Christ never died!).
17 For it is declared:

“You are a priest forever,
    in the order of Melchizedek.”

18 The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless
19 (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.
20 And it was not without an oath! Others became priests without any oath,

Again, to the reader, please visit:

www.answering-christianity.com/at.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/convert_christians.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/1john2_22.htm



A Brotherly Reminder:

I want to end this reply by reminding you also with the following verses:

Matthew 24:36 Jesus said "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." 

Jesus told his followers that no one (including Jesus) knows when the judgment day will come, only GOD knows.  Notice here how "The Father" title was used for the All Knowing GOD Almighty.

Also, if Christ was indeed your Creator, brother Jesus.breadoflife, then JESUS HERE CLEARLY LIED!  If he were GOD Almighty, he would've certainly known when the Hour would come.  Him denying that he had any knowledge about the Hour, while he supposedly knew it, makes him a liar.

Luke 18:19 ""Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good—except God alone."

Mark 10:18 “And Jesus said to him, ‘Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.”?

Trinity is false and a blasphemy.  Islam is the Divine Truth.  Indeed, all Praise and Glory are due to Allah Almighty Alone for making the Noble Quran be the Perfect and Everlasting Miracle, for us humans, out of all of His Divine Miracles!  And may Allah Almighty send His Peace, Mercy and Blessings upon our Beloved and Blessed Prophet, Teacher and Role Model, Muhammad.  Ameen.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Trinity is another form of the pagan 3-headed god religions:

So again, your belief is paganistic that originated from paganism.  This whole 3-headed god thing is all pagan, and comes from pagan origins.  Hinduism and Europes' pagan religions were all about 3-headed god, and/or 3 gods.  This is where your blapshemous and false trinity comes from.  It's another pagan version of the 3-headed god pagan religions.

John 4:24
24 God is spirit, and his worshippers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.’

Jesus is the King of Jews/King of Israel in the, also the Saviour - all in the New Testament.

Mark 15:32 (Lord Jesus is mocked when he is on the cross)
32 Let this Messiah, this king of Israel, come down now from the cross, that we may see and believe.’ Those crucified with him also heaped insults on him

2 Peter 3:18
18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.

When we looked to the Old Testament, we can see that the terms used to describe God matches this.

Isaiah 44:6
‘This is what the Lord says –
    Israel’s King and Redeemer, the Lord Almighty:
I am the first and I am the last;
    apart from me there is no God.

Lord Jesus also says of himself that he is the first and last in the New Testament.

Revealation 22:13
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

There are many such examples which show that Jesus and the Father are one.

Finally, dear brother, there is no need to call me a liar. I know the Bible to be amazing and true. My faith is not paganism or polytheism. My God is one - he is my Father, my rock, my protector, the Spirit who lives in me. Jesus is my Lord and I love him in perfect truth. God loves all of you, we are the work of his hands. Let there be no unpleasantness between us.

God bless you all

First of all, the Book of Revelation was a dream written by a person named "John".  He was neither the desciple John nor John the Baptist.

Second of all, read Revelation 20, 21 and then 22.  You'll see clear distinctions between GOD Almighty, Jesus Christ, and the Servant-Angel and the rest of the Angels.  Jesus had Angels assigned for him from GOD Almighty.  And Jesus here, in this dream, is the beginning and the end here on earth!  The battle with satan, in other words, ends with HIM!  He is the Mighty Messiah that will create the Kingdom of GOD Almighty here on earth.  And as I already proved in my previous post, Jesus' inheritence (him being the heir of GOD Almighty) was ONLY FOR PLANET EARTH AND NOTHING MORE.  The Bible further says that all of the Believers are also the heirs of GOD Almighty.

Read my previous rebuttals.  Start from this thread: http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,868.msg2677.html#msg2677.

May Allah Almighty continue to lead you to Islam.  Ameen.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

[jesus.breadoflife]

 Hi brother,

God bless you all. I would just like to quickly reply to one of your points: that "God is one in all believers".  I am afraid you have misinterpreted this passage completely.

John 17:21,22
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

This verse is saying that all the believers should be as one. What does it mean for the believers to be one?

Acts 4:32
32 All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had.

Lord Jesus said that he and the Father are one -

John 10:30
30 I and the Father are one.”

If you read John 17:21-22 carefully, it is saying that the believers should all be one just as Jesus and God are one. Clearly, this does not mean that the believers are all literally one person  but that they are of one heart and mind. There verses later that say that the believers should be one in God and Jesus (that they also may be one in us). Unless the spirit of God is in them and is helping them, it is impossible for people to always be completely of one heart and mind. I.e. unless they are walking in God's path, they cannot be one. Therefore, when we look at the passages, we can see that Jesus and the Father are one and the believers should all be one. I hope you can see the difference - the Bible does not say that believers and God are one but it says that Jesus and God are one.

I will reply to the rest of your post in the next few days, if it is God's will.

Let us humble ourselves before Almighty God, His steadfast love and mercy endure forever.

Praise the Lord

[Wizdom]

Bump

[QuranSearchCom]

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As'salamu Alaikum my dear brother Tariq,

I don't know what we would've done without you, akhi.  Hehehehhe .  I got very used to your bumps that after I make a post, I go to sleep for a while to wait for you to wake me up .  Thank you for help us to push ourselves.  I appreciate it dear brother.

Hi brother,

God bless you all. I would just like to quickly reply to one of your points: that "God is one in all believers".  I am afraid you have misinterpreted this passage completely.

John 17:21,22
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

This verse is saying that all the believers should be as one. What does it mean for the believers to be one?

Peace be upon you my dear brother Jesus.breadoflife,

All I needed to do to thoroughly silence this blasphemy that you wrote, and believe in, was simply emphasise a couple of quotes from your writings.  Do you even see how ridiculous and stupid trinity is?  I mean, we're not talking about here some straight forward and clear texts that your Bible has about Jesus being MY CREATOR, and here me the blasphemous Muslim rejecting them.  No, we're talking about your polytheist and pagan people inventing insults and blasphemies on GOD Almighty.  Let us take a look at a few simple points here:

1-  The Believers are to be one in each others and in Jesus and in GOD Almighty EXACTLY GOD Almighty and Jesus are also one in mission and purpose.  I have no idea how you missed that my dear one.

2-  The Glory that GOD Almighty gave to Jesus??  Do you even understand what you read, my brother?  If Jesus was your Creator, then how could GLory be GIVENNNN to him?  It would've been part of him from eternity.  The fact that it was given to Jesus proves that Jesus was a mere creation of GOD Almighty, my beloved brother.


An Amazing Blasphemy!

And I have already proven in my thorough refutations above, that this whole thing about Jesus' Kingdom, Power and Might, and him being the Heir of GOD, and the Authority that was given to him by GOD Almighty, are all limited and contained to planet earth ONLY, according to the Bible itself, and that Jesus had to have all of this might, power, miracles and authority because HE HAD TO BE A MATCH to the Jews' heighest priest, Melchizedek, who had no begining and end, nor had he father or mother.

I find it quite interesting here that Melchizedek being Eternal, and not having a begining nor an end, nor was he born from any father or mother, nor did he have any father or mother is not literal to you from the Bible, but Jesus and the Father are One in purpose and mission has to mean that Jesus is our Creator.  I truly find that to be quite an amazing trinitarian blasphemy and absurdity.

To the reader, please see my refutations above for ample Biblical verses on Melchizedek and many other points.

And I have already proven in my thorough refutations above, that "THE FATHER" in the Bible means the Al-Knowing GOD Almighty, according to how the Bible defined it.

And I have already proven in my thorough refutations above, that "The Son" means Righeous and Blessed Servant and Creation of GOD Almighty, also according to how the Bible defined it.

Acts 4:32
32 All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had.

Lord Jesus said that he and the Father are one -

John 10:30
30 I and the Father are one.”

If you read John 17:21-22 carefully, it is saying that the believers should all be one just as Jesus and God are one.

This further proves my point and refutes yours, my dear brother.

Clearly, this does not mean that the believers are all literally one person  but that they are of one heart and mind.

So why do you then want to force the same statement on Jesus and GOD Almighty to be literal, and to mean that Jesus is your Creator?  Why can't you humble yourself (arrogant, bold and daring towards GOD, and humble towards humans is what Christians are) before GOD Almighty and not force nonsensical reading and blasphemies into the simple text?

There verses later that say that the believers should be one in God and Jesus (that they also may be one in us). Unless the spirit of God is in them and is helping them, it is impossible for people to always be completely of one heart and mind. I.e. unless they are walking in God's path, they cannot be one. Therefore, when we look at the passages, we can see that Jesus and the Father are one and the believers should all be one. I hope you can see the difference - the Bible does not say that believers and God are one but it says that Jesus and God are one.

I will reply to the rest of your post in the next few days, if it is God's will.

Let us humble ourselves before Almighty God, His steadfast love and mercy endure forever.

Praise the Lord

May Allah Almighty continue to lead you and lead the reader more and more towards Islam, and may Allah Almighty open your heart to Islam and have you convert someday.  Ameen.


Did you know that it's not ELOH-IM?  It's ALLAH!

My beloved, Allah Almighty had sent you here to test you.  There is a purpose and a reason why you and I are having this discussion.  I am very sorry if I ever offended you.  I just sincerely hope and pray to Allah Almighty that you see that you're being called by GOD Almighty to embrace Islam.  Islam is the Original Faith.  And Islam came to the Arabs (fresh and had no previous and corrupt scriptures) to restore the original Faith.  The original Believers from Adam and Noah and others were always called Muslims, according to your own Scriptures in Hebrew and Aramaic and Greek.  Other ancient Scriptures also outside the Bible have the same claim.  And Islam had started with Adam and ended with Muhammad, peace be upon all of the Messengers and Prophets of Allah Almighty. 

And last and definitely not least, Did you know that Elohim is Allah?  The "im" in Hebrew is a majestic plural for GOD Almighty.  The root Word is "Eloh".  And the more original Jews such as Yemenites and others say Alohim or Alah-im.  And when you yourself pronounce it, you do naturally pronounce it with a double "l": Allah.  Jews do call Him: Allah-im.  Aramaic-speaking people also call GOD Almighty Allah.  See the following links for Biblical references and proofs.  Also, pre-Islamic Biblical archeological findings have GOD Almighty as "Allah".  So the Original Holy Name for GOD Almighty is not Eloh.  It is Allah!  Eloh is a Hebrew dialect, which not all Hebrew speakers use anyway.  Allah had always been the Original and Universal GOD Almighty even before birth of Judaism, and the existence Hebrew.  And Hebrew is a developed language from Phoenician.  See the following links:

www.answering-christianity.com/allah.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/allah6.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/convert_christians.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenician_alphabet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_Hebrew

Consider these points and take them to heart as you type your next response.

Take care dear brother,
Osama Abdallah

[Wizdom]

As'salamu Alaikum my dear brother Tariq,

I don't know what we would've done without you, akhi.  Hehehehhe .  I got very used to your bumps that after I make a post, I go to sleep for a while to wait for you to wake me up .  Thank you for help us to push ourselves.  I appreciate it dear brother.

:D No problem brother Osama, and thank you very much, and you're welcome

[jesus.breadoflife]

Praise the Lord,

John 17:21,22
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

This verse is saying that all the believers should be as one. What does it mean for the believers to be one?

Peace be upon you my dear brother Jesus.breadoflife,

All I needed to do to thoroughly silence this blasphemy that you wrote, and believe in, was simply emphasise a couple of quotes from your writings.  Do you even see how ridiculous and stupid trinity is?  I mean, we're not talking about here some straight forward and clear texts that your Bible has about Jesus being MY CREATOR, and here me the blasphemous Muslim rejecting them.  No, we're talking about your polytheist and pagan people inventing insults and blasphemies on GOD Almighty.  Let us take a look at a few simple points here:

1-  The Believers are to be one in each others and in Jesus and in GOD Almighty EXACTLY GOD Almighty and Jesus are also one in mission and purpose.  I have no idea how you missed that my dear one.
[/quote]

At the risk of repeating myself,
1. The believers should all be as one - in their hearts.
2. Jesus says they should be "one in us" - i.e. what unites them to be one is Lord Jesus and the Father.
3. Jesus says that he and the Father are one
4. The Bible does not say that God and the believers are one.
 

Clearly, this does not mean that the believers are all literally one person  but that they are of one heart and mind.

So why do you then want to force the same statement on Jesus and GOD Almighty to be literal, and to mean that Jesus is your Creator?  Why can't you humble yourself (arrogant, bold and daring towards GOD, and humble towards humans is what Christians are) before GOD Almighty and not force nonsensical reading and blasphemies into the simple text?

Well, we do not believe that the Father and Son are literally one - since the Father did not come into this world but the Son did and he is the one that died on the cross. For example, your sprit, soul and body are separate yet you are one person.

There are many verses in the Bible which show that Lord Jesus is more than an ordinary man. The  Son of God appeared to his people even in the Old Testament and spoke to them.

Isaiah 44:6

Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel
    and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
“I am the first and I am the last;
    besides me there is no god.

Isaiah 43:10

11 I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour.

We can see that Jesus is also called the King of Israel and the saviour (i.e. Redeemer) in the New Testament.

1 Peter 1:1

1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

John 1:49

49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

Brother, there is no need to apologise at all; I love you as Lord Jesus has taught me and if I have caused you any offence, it was not intentional.

1 Corinthians 13: 4-6
4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonour others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

I hope this is something we can all agree on

This will be my last reply on this particular post. If God allows, I will start posting new topics (covering other things highlighted in this post, perhaps) in a few days.

God bless us all.

[QuranSearchCom]

Well, we do not believe that the Father and Son are literally one - since the Father did not come into this world but the Son did and he is the one that died on the cross. For example, your sprit, soul and body are separate yet you are one person.

Peace be upon you dear brother Jesus.breadoflife,

I knew this answer was going to come up sometime in our discussion.  Here is the problem with your analogy:

1-  You do not own your body, nor are YOU your body (hands, arms, feet, etc...).  Your body is no more than a vehicle that Allah Almighty has created from dust to be 100% under your service.

2-  There are things that you have no control over, such as controlling your heart beats, the functioning of your other organs such as your lungs, kidneys, stomach, and so on.  They work beyond your control.

3-  If Jesus was GOD and GOD was Jesus, then Jesus can not be the helpless and weak and begging Servant, who couldn't do anything without GOD Almighty's Permission and Will. 



Jesus hid and ran away after he delcared to be Yahweh?!

Timing just couldn't be any more perfect.  HEAR ME O PEOPLE:  I AM YAHWEH...  OH NO!!  SOME BODY HELP!!  RUN!!!!

If Jesus Christ was indeed Yahweh Almighty, the Sovereign LORD and Creator of this entire Universe and everything, then Jesus Christ would not have run away from few men charging towards him with stones by crawling on his four and hiding under a table and sneaking out the door, while some men wanted to beat him up while others were trying to break it up and prevent them.  At the very least, he could've pointed his finger at them and froze them in their places.  But no, he ran away with fear from a bunch of men:

John 8
58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”
59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him (throw stones at him in other words; not STONE him to death), but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

Interestingly, you believe that Jesus in John 8 declared himself to be YAHWEH ALMIGHTY by saying "I Am" (false translation as we will see shortly).  Yet, he hid and ran out after this very declaration???  Trinity could not be anymore blasphemous and preposterous, my dear brother.  Jesus Christ never said "I am".  Here is the context in full:

John 8
1 but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.
2 At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them.
3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group
4 and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery.
5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?”
6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.  But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger.
7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.”
8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there.
10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”
11 “No one, sir,” she said.

“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

Dispute Over Jesus’ Testimony

12 When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”
13 The Pharisees challenged him, “Here you are, appearing as your own witness; your testimony is not valid.”
14 Jesus answered, “Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going.
15 You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one.
16 But if I do judge, my decisions are true, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me.
17 In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two witnesses is true.
18 I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me.”
19 Then they asked him, “Where is your father?”

“You do not know me or my Father,” Jesus replied. “If you knew me, you would know my Father also.”

20 He spoke these words while teaching in the temple courts near the place where the offerings were put. Yet no one seized him, because his hour had not yet come.

Dispute Over Who Jesus Is

21 Once more Jesus said to them, “I am going away, and you will look for me, and you will die in your sin. Where I go, you cannot come.”
22 This made the Jews ask, “Will he kill himself? Is that why he says, ‘Where I go, you cannot come’?”
23 But he continued, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.
24 I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”
25 “Who are you?” they asked.

“Just what I have been telling you from the beginning,” Jesus replied.

26 “I have much to say in judgment of you. But he who sent me is trustworthy, and what I have heard from him I tell the world.”
27 They did not understand that he was telling them about his Father.
28 So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up[a] the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me.
29 The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him.”
30 Even as he spoke, many believed in him.

Dispute Over Whose Children Jesus’ Opponents Are

31 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples.
32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
33 They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?”
34 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.
35 Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever.
36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.
37 I know that you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are looking for a way to kill me, because you have no room for my word.
38 I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father.[b ]”
39 “Abraham is our father,” they answered.

“If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would[c] do what Abraham did.
40 As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. 41 You are doing the works of your own father.”

“We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.”

42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own (again, not on MY OWN); God sent me.

43 Why is my language not clear to you? (O brother Jesus.breadoflife, why is Jesus Christ's language NOT clear to you my beloved??!!) Because you are unable to hear what I say.

44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me!
46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me?
47 Whoever belongs to God hears what God says (THIS IS HOW GOD AND JESUS ARE ONE!  JESUS BELONGS TO GOD LIKE VERY OTHER BELIEVER AND CREATION). The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

Jesus’ Claims About Himself

48 The Jews answered him, “Aren’t we right in saying that you are a Samaritan and demon-possessed?”
49 “I am not possessed by a demon,” said Jesus, “but I honor my Father and you dishonor me.
50 I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge.
51 Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never see death.”
52 At this they exclaimed, “Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that whoever obeys your word will never taste death.
53 Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?”
54 Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me.
55 Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and obey his word.
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”
57 “You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!” (notice how the English translators put "!" instead of "?")

58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am I WAS (or I have seen Abraham, or I existed before Abraham)!”
59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.



Jesus directly answered the question!

Again, the question was:  57 “You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham?”

Jesus directly answered the question.  Please visit: www.answering-christianity.com/iam.htm to see three online Greek dictionaries that clearly prove that the Greek word used here also means I WAS and/or I HAVE.  And the context is crystal clear about this.  The Jews said to Christ that you are not even fifty years old and you claim that you have seen Abraham who have existed thousands of years before you??  Jesus replied to this by saying that yes, HE EXISTED EVEN BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS, THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO.

There are many verses in the Bible which show that Lord Jesus is more than an ordinary man. The  Son of God appeared to his people even in the Old Testament and spoke to them.

Isaiah 44:6

Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel
    and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
“I am the first and I am the last;
    besides me there is no god.

Isaiah 43:10

11 I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour.

We can see that Jesus is also called the King of Israel and the saviour (i.e. Redeemer) in the New Testament.

1 Peter 1:1

1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

John 1:49

49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

Isaiah 44:6 OUT OF CONTEXT:

When you read Isaiah 44 in full, you'll see that GOD Almighty is speaking with Jacob, whom also GOD Almighty called him Israel.  Isaiah 44:6 is not talking about GOD Almighty and Jesus.  It's talking about GOD Almighty AND ONLY GOD Almighty being:

1-  King of Israel.
2-  The redeemer of Israel (Jacob).

Let us look at the entire context in full:

Isaiah 44

Israel the Chosen

1 “But now listen, Jacob, my servant, Israel, whom I have chosen.
2 This is what the Lord says— he who made you, who formed you in the womb, and who will help you: Do not be afraid, Jacob, my servant, Jeshurun, whom I have chosen.
3 For I will pour water on the thirsty land, and streams on the dry ground; I will pour out my Spirit on your offspring, and my blessing on your descendants.
4 They will spring up like grass in a meadow, like poplar trees by flowing streams.
5 Some will say, ‘I belong to the Lord’; others will call themselves by the name of Jacob; still others will write on their hand, ‘The Lord’s,’     and will take the name Israel.

The Lord, Not Idols

6 “This is what the Lord says— Israel’s King and Redeemer, the Lord Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.

So it is very clear that GOD Almighty here is referring to Himself as the King of Israel and its Redeemer.  The verse is not talking about two gods.  It's talking about ONE GOD ALMIGHTY.

As to Christ being the beginning and end and the savior, I already elaborated on this in great details from the New Testament, in the above posts, by demonstrating that this is referring to Christ ending all evil here on earth when he crushes the anti-Christ.  And everything about Christ from being Miraculous and Powerful and Mighty and the King of the Jews had to be given to him because he had to be like the Jews' Highest Priest, melchizedek, who had no beginning nor end, and no father and no mother, and nor was he born from any mother or father, AND HE WAS ETERNAL, according to the Bible's Old and New Testaments.

Furthermore, Jesus power and miracles and authority were all 100% given to him by GOD Almighty, his Creator.  There is no dispute about this from the Bible.  So him being Miraculous doesn't prove anything.

Furthermore, I already also demonstrated from the Bible's Old and New Testaments that "THE FATHER" means the Highest Priest when used for humans, and the GOD Almighty the Al-Knowing when used for GOD Almighty.

Furthermore, I also already demonstrated above from the Bible also that "SON OF GOD" means Righteous Servant of GOD Almighty who is loved by GOD Almighty.

Brother, there is no need to apologise at all; I love you as Lord Jesus has taught me and if I have caused you any offence, it was not intentional.

1 Corinthians 13: 4-6
4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonour others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

I hope this is something we can all agree on

This will be my last reply on this particular post. If God allows, I will start posting new topics (covering other things highlighted in this post, perhaps) in a few days.

God bless us all.

May Allah Almighty bless you for these wonderful verse, dear brother Jesus.breadoflife.  Allah Almighty Said in the Glorious Quran:

[005:082]  Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, "We are Christians": because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.


Please visit:

www.answering-christianity.com/blessed_jesus.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/convert_christians.htm

May Allah Almighty bless you dear brother.  Ameen.  You're more than welcomed to continue to respond to this thread.  But if you wish to discontinue, then as you wish, dear brother.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

[QuranSearchCom]

This is a continuation to my detailed must-read rebuttal above....



Does the Bible say that Yahweh created Jesus?

Yes it does.  GOD Almighty created the flesh and blood Jesus, and GOD Almighty MADE Jesus from the Word.  I have also covered this topic in one of my debates in great details:

Is Jesus the GOD-Man?

Dr. Edward Dalcour VS Osama Abdallah

Jesus Christ belongs to the World of Command.  He is a BEING.  We belong to the world of Creations.  We are CREATURES.  Our SPIRITS belong to the World of Command.  And so does also the Word, the Holy Spirit, Melchizedek (the Jews' Highest Priest who had no father and no mother, and no beginning and no end, whom Christ had to be created "in his order", and had to be Miraculous like Melchizedek in order to be a match to him, and be made "in the order of Melchizedek".  See Genesis 14:18, Psalm 110:4, Hebrews 5:6-10, Hebrews 6:20, Hebrews 7:1-20), and perhaps many of the Angels and many of the invisible Beings out there.  Yet, everything is under the Power and Command and Control of Allah Almighyty:

"In blasphemy indeed are those that say that God is Christ the son of Mary. Say: "Who then hath the least power against God, if His will were to destroy Christ the son of Mary, his mother, and all every - one that is on the earth? For to God belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between. He createth what He pleaseth. For God hath power over all things."  (The Noble Quran, 5:17)"

Jesus was declared to be the "first and the last" and the "beginning and the end".  So what is Jesus' first or beginning?  It's when he WAS or WAS MADE according to John 1:1.  Jesus came from the "REALM OF COMMAND" according to the Glorious Quran.  The Bible also agrees with this:

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God with authority.

Why did I cross "God" and replace it with "with authority"?  The following gives the clear answer:

The Word encompasses Jesus:

  

From http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,2884.msg13839.html#msg13839:    From brother Shaad: The Logos and Jesus are differentiated in Revelation....    Revelation 20:4 King James Version (KJV) 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God...    Revelation 1:2 2 who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ Jazaka Allah Khayr, dear brother Shaad.  I took the liberty to add the emphasis to your text, akhi.  Indeed, the Word of GOD Almighty ENCOMPASSES Jesus, because he was made/created from it; exactly as Islam declares. Trinity is false.  I have added your addition to: www.answering-christianity.com/word_of_god.htm Take care, Osama Abdallah

One might ask: Why was "God" crossed out and replaced with "with authority"?

Answer: Because the same word (THEOS or the compound one HOTHEOS) was also used for satan to describe him the "God of this world" in 2 Corinthians 4:4:

"The GOD of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.  (From the NIV Bible, 2 Corinthians 4:4)"

SATAN WAS CALLED GOD in 2 Corinthians 4:4.  Yet, satan, like the idols, fails the challenge of GOD Almighty to prove that they are GOD:
   
Isaiah 41
21 Come then, says the Lord, your pleadings! Let the King of Jacob hear your contentions;
22 let them come forward, these other gods, and tell us the future. So read the past for us, that the study of it may disclose what needs must follow; coming events make known.
23 Foretell you what is yet to be, we shall know you are gods indeed. Then, if you have the power, grant good or ill fortune to mankind; confer we, and pass judgment on it!
24 Why, you are all empty air, a nothing that nothing can effect; he courts his own shame, that makes choice of you.

Satan can not do any of these.  So THEOS ("God", the same Greek word used for The Word in John 1:1)  means having rule and authority, and not being actually GOD Almighty Himself.

The cursed satan obviously was no one's Creator.  So the use of the word "GOD" for him is a mistranslation, because GOD here means one with authority or rule, and not actually Allah Almighty Himself.  The same thing about Jesus Christ, who was created from the Word of Allah Almighty.  Jesus was given a limited authority by Allah Almighty here on earth ONLY:

John 5
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

John 17:21-22
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

Matthew 28:18
18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

The Bible declares that Jesus is the one who will inherit EARTH after he crushes satan.  This is where he is called the HEIR OF GOD.  The Bible limits Jesus inheritence to earth only, and also limits Jesus' power and authority to earth only as well.  Please visit:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/jesus_heir_of_god_lie.htm

This is also where Jesus was called called:

1-  Mighty God.
2-  Wonderful Counsler.
3-  Everlasting Father (Rabbi).
4-  Prince of Peace.

This is all discussed in great details at: http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,868.msg3122.html#msg3122.

All Jewish Rabbis were called "Father".  This is also where Roman Catholics get the "Father" title from.  And Jesus being "Everlasting Father" means he is the highest Jewish Rabbi and Messiah, because he is the Messiah and the King of the Jews.  See the previous posts above for a lot more details.

Also, Son of GOD in the Bible means a Righteous Chosen Servant of GOD Almighty.  Also, GOD Almighty called "THE FATHER" means He is the Al-Knowing and Al-Mighty GOD Almighty.  Also, all believers are called GOD in the Bible:

Psalm 82:6  "I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.' "

For ample more proofs, please visit: http://www.answering-christianity.com/godtitle.htm.

And again, please visit the link that I gave above for ample more Biblical verses and proofs and discussions:  http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,868.msg3122.html#msg3122.

Also visit this important discussion about Jesus' Will, and how GOD Almighty makes him live ("I live because of GOD"):  http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,1617.msg6417.html#msg6417

Also, the following are my thorough answers to many of the Questions that were asked regarding trintiy on this board: http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,1635.msg6491.html#msg6491

Also on the main website, you can visit the Answering Trinity main section, which has tons of articles and refutations to the falsehood of trinity.

Also visit: http://www.answering-christianity.com/jesus_had_no_will.htm.

Son of GOD definition: In the Bible, "the Son" refers to the Messiah, - the Ultimate Messenger to the Jews.  Son in their time meant Servant of GOD.  Allah Almighty also explained it precisely like this in the Glorious Quran: "....servants raised to honour.  (The Noble Quran, 21:26)".  Please visit: www.answering-christianity.com/definition_son_of_god.htm    This is what we will be called in Heaven, and Allah Almighty also does recognize "Son of GOD" title in the Glorious Quran, but Says that they are no more than pious "....servants raised to honour.  (The Noble Quran, 21:26)".  Nothing Divine about them except that they exist with Allah Almighty Eternally in Heaven.  But as far as Divine Authority and Power, all Divine Authority and Power belong to Allah Almighty Alone and none else.  You can visit:    www.answering-christianity.com/definition_son_of_god.htm www.answering-christianity.com/son_of_god_in_bible_and_quran_debate.ppt www.answering-christianity.com/son_of_god.htm www.answering-christianity.com/son_translation.htm www.answering-christianity.com/debate_templates.htm www.answering-christianity.com/convert_christians.htm Trinity Crucified!  100s of verses thoroughly destroy the trinity lie.    Jesus was called ABD (SLAVE) of GOD: www.answering-christianity.com/jesus_called_slave_in_bible.htm    John 1:1: John 1:1 answered from the Glorious Quran.  Includes a Scientific Miracle in the Glorious Quran. John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God was with authority (same Greek word for satan's rule [1] [2] [3])."    The Word encompasses Jesus:    From http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,2884.msg13839.html#msg13839:    From brother Shaad: The Logos and Jesus are differentiated in Revelation....    Revelation 20:4 King James Version (KJV) 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God...    Revelation 1:2 2 who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ Jazaka Allah Khayr, dear brother Shaad.  I took the liberty to add the emphasis to your text, akhi.  Indeed, the Word of GOD Almighty ENCOMPASSES Jesus, because he was made/created from it; exactly as Islam declares. Trinity is false.  I have added your addition to: www.answering-christianity.com/word_of_god.htm Take care, Osama Abdallah    Messiah definition: www.answering-christianity.com/definition_of_maseeh_in_quran.htm

2 The same was in the beginning with God (YAHWEH ALMIGHTY).
3 All things were made by him (that's YAHWEH ALMIGHTY); and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.


The World of GOD's Command:

In Islam there are:

1-  GOD Almighty, the Supreme and Soverign LORD and Creator of Everything.

2-  Then under GOD Almighty, there is what is known in Islam as عالم الأمر or the World of Command.  This is where the Word of GOD Almighty, the Spirit (includes the Holy Spirit), and perhaps many of the special Angels were all WERE MADE IN.  Allah Almighty Made a reference regarding this World in many Noble Verses such as the following:

‏2:117 بديع السماوات والارض واذا قضى امرا فانما يقول له كن فيكون

[002:117]  To Him is due the primal origin of the heavens and the earth: When He decreeth a matter, He saith to it: "Be," and it is.

‏3:47 قالت رب انى يكون لي ولد ولم يمسسني بشر قال كذلك الله يخلق مايشاء اذا قضى امرا فانما يقول له كن فيكون

[003:047]  She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: God createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is!

‏3:59 ان مثل عيسى عند الله كمثل ادم خلقه من تراب ثم قال له كن فيكون

[003:059]  The similitude of Jesus before God is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was.

‏6:73 وهو الذي خلق السماوات والارض بالحق ويوم يقول كن فيكون قوله الحق وله الملك يوم ينفخ في الصور عالم الغيب والشهادة وهو الحكيم الخبير

[006:073]  It is He who created the heavens and the earth in true (proportions): the day He saith, "Be," behold! it is. His word is the truth. His will be the dominion the day the trumpet will be blown. He knoweth the unseen as well as that which is open. For He is the Wise, well acquainted (with all things).

‏16:40 انما قولنا لشئ اذا اردناه ان نقول له كن فيكون

[016:040]  For to anything which We have willed, We but say the word, "Be", and it is.

‏19:35 ماكان لله ان يتخذ من ولد سبحانه اذا قضى امرا فانما يقول له كن فيكون

[019:035]  It is not befitting to (the majesty of) God that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! when He determines a matter, He only says to it, "Be", and it is.

"They ask thee concerning the Spirit (of inspiration). Say: 'The Spirit (cometh) by command of my Lord: of knowledge it is only a little that is communicated to you, (O men!)' (The Noble Quran, 17:85)"

[097:004]  Therein come down the angels and the Spirit by God's Command, on every errand:

This World we call in Islam "Aalam Al-Amr" (عالم الأمر) or the World of the Command of GOD Almighty, where everything in it was Created by a Simple Command from GOD Almighty of BE and THEY WERE.

The Bible too speaks about Spirits, and interestingly, the Spirit of FEARING GOD will rest upon Jesus, the Servant of GOD Almighty:

Isaiah 11:1-3
"1. A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse; from his roots a Branch will bear fruit.
2. The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him (Jesus)-- the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of
counsel and of power, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD (Jesus fearing his GOD)--
3. and he will delight in the fear of the LORD. He will not judge by what he sees with his eyes, or
decide by what he hears with his ears;"

For ample more details and proofs, please visit:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/spirit.htm
http://www.answering-christianity.com/holy_spirit.htm


3-  And there is Alam Al-Khalq (عالم الخلق) or the World of Creation.  This is where the water and dust, and the flesh and blood creations are.  And this is also where the SELF (nafs) and the SPIRIT (rouh), two seperate beings, enter into our fleshes to make us Humans.  This is also where we carry the Attributes of GOD Almighty in Islam, or as the Bible puts it, this is where we have become the Image of GOD Almighty, or were created in the Image of GOD Almighty. 

I talked about SELF (nafs) and SPIRIT (rouh) in great details in the past on this blog.  For ample more details, please visit:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,650.msg1523.html#msg1523

http://www.answering-christianity.com/let_us.htm



And what is Jesus' End or Last?

According to the Bible, Jesus Christ must inherit the earth from GOD Almighty by crushing all evil on it, forever.  Jesus is the HEIR OF GOD ALMIGHTY only on earth and nothing more.  The Bible makes this abdundantly clear.  Please visit:

www.answering-christianity.com/jesus_heir_of_god_lie.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/ac7.htm#links

The Bible also calls all believers as the HEIRS OF GOD ALMIGHTY.  So Jesus' Last or End is when the Lord Jesus Christ defeats the army of the anti-Christ, and establishes the Kingdom of GOD Almighty here on Earth while the earth and the Universe lasts, and before DEATH comes upon all creations:

[003:185]  Every soul shall have a taste of death: And only on the Day of Judgment shall you be paid your full recompense. Only he who is saved far from the Fire and admitted to the Garden will have attained the object (of Life): For the life of this world is but goods and chattels of deception.

According to Islam, everything that was ever created and made by Allah Almighty will and must taste death.  They must go through death.  Only Allah Almighty doesn't die and never dies, and will never die.

I ask Allah Almighty that this helps to clarify the blasphemous trinity confusions.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

[Mohammed]

If you go to Wikipedia you will find they cite 5 (non-Christian) references which supposedly prove that 'Isa was crucified. Someone should refute the claim.

I am gonna get vulgar on this , but hope somebody is able to explain the same logic in a better way .

If there were two persons A and B who faught in an infiniti amount of time ago .

and there were 140,000 people watching them .

Person A does a special move in which he head-attacked the person B in his stomach and simultaneously hit the testis with his hand or something .

The People at that time dint know getting hit in the testis hard enough can cause death ( recent discovery )

Person B dies .

The 140,000 people saw that the Person died because "Person A had hit him in the Stomach" and the same message gets passed for a million years

For, if we ask or do research on "how person B died" , The BEST and AUTHENTIC source of information would be person B itself .


Coming to Jesus and his crucifixion .

We should apply the same logic . The Person who knows best about the situation which happened to him would be the person HIMSELF .

But In the Case of Jesus , Christians claim him as "God" , A million witnesses would still be particle of sand against the words of Jesus for them.

SO TO EVERYONE , TO PROVE CRUCIFIXION OF JESUS CHRIST YOU NEED TO FIRST ESTABLISH THAT THE WORDS OF JESUS ARE GREATER THAN ALL OTHER PEOPLE . The Number witnesses doesn't matter unless he is an atheist .

And if you ask any Christian , "Do you believe in Jesus or people more ?" , and he will 100% say "jesus" or he is not a True Christian .

So yah , it doesn't matter the number witness or people when it comes to words of Jesus to a Christian .

A Lot of people saw the "plane" hitting the Pentagon, But infact it was cruise missle which hit it and THERE IS AMPLE PROO for that too(on this website),

So next time any Christian tells you about witnesses, Ask them "who do you believe more in, Jesus or People?"

"Sometimes the Truth is not what you saw"

[Mohammed]

Dear Brother ,

I do not mean to offend you but I am telling this out of love and care,

you are indeed a very knowledge person ,

But I feel that you are not a good "debater" compared to those apologists when it comes to oral debating,

whenever I come to this website I find so powerfull arguments but they are absent in your debates .

Inshallah I hope you will improve on this.

[TheEyeofGod]

Hello my people, peace be unto you .                             
Sometimes If I see some of you people posts , I will just be laughing and won't want to stop.
This scriptures is very very clear and straight, I don't know why you people are twisting it and want to turn your brain to another thing. All is Well

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word (Jesus) , and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He (Jesus) was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him(Jesus)  all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light(Jesus)  shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

Here let us understand that , Jesus was with God before anything on earth were created, and the word(Jesus) was God Himself, truly all things were made through word except human,(which means , all things were made trough Jesus the word).  Jesus was with God before the creation of anything on earth.

 6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.
9 The true light that gives light to everyone (I.e Jesus)was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God...

God sent fort John to testify concerning Jesus Christ

v14 The Word (Jesus)  became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
 
If He didn't became like us to dwell with us like flesh, how can we belief in Him? Imagine He was a spirit, people will even be afraid of Him.
Just because He wanted to save the world ,He came down in Form of man, yet people like you didn't believe in Him. Yoruba adage says" who so ever want to catch monkey will act like a monkey" which means if Jesus want to show us the way to heaven he must be like us as man.

v15 John testified concerning him. He cried out, saying, "This is the one I spoke about when I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.'"
John let us know that He(Jesus) was before him, does that mean Jesus has come to earth. And went back before? NO! He simply means , before he was created, Jesus was in Heaven already.

v18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
 But brothers I will like you to ask for Holy spirit to translate the word of God to you in the right way, flesh cannot understand it because, this word is spirit and life. # shalom 

[QuranSearchCom]

As'salamu Alaikum everyone,

One thing about our trinitarian friend, TheEyeofGod (a blasphemous name against GOD by the way), is his colorful way of posting nonsense and calling it "a response".  As everyone can clearly see above, he hasn't refuted anything here.  Not only that, but he has forced the Bible to read Jesus as the Word, and not a creation from the Word.  I've thoroughly went through this at:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,868.msg3309.html#msg3309

There are so many points to mention here, which I don't feel necessary to post.  Just read the link and see for yourselves.  Here are a few points:

1-  Jesus was made from the Word, and this Word became flesh.

2-  Jesus had the Spirit of fearing GOD in him.

3-  Jesus said he doesn't know when the Hour will come, and that only GOD Almighty Alone knows.

4-  Jesus said why do you call me Good?  No one is Good except GOD Almighty Alone.

5-  Jesus had no will.

6-  Jesus was Miraculous because he had to match Melchizedek, who was the Jews highest Priest, who had no father and no mother, and no beginning and no end.

Did our trinitarian friend here refute any of this??  Absolutely not!  These are the few that I could think of.  Again, please visit the link for detailed verses and proofs.

And for detailed proofs on Islam being the Original Religion of the Bible, and GOD Almighty's Original Faith to all of mankind even according to the Bible itself, visit:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac.htm#capsule

And last and not least, to see the Overwhelming Scientific Miracles in the Glorious Quran, please visit:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#links

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

[TheEyeofGod]

Well said brother, no matter what you call me , I really appreciate it. But I will beg you not be upset.
 

JESUS HAD THE SPIRIT OF FEARING GOD IN HIM -
JESUs SAID hE DOESNT KNOW WHEN THE HOUR WILL COME
If He didn't fear God , who else will He fear ? Satan?
I said the other time that" He want us to use his lifestyle as Example" if he didn't fear God, how did He expect us to fear God also?
He said he didn't know the time, because if he had told us the time, some people today will be doing another thing, they won't worship nor fear God again, until the day is near, people will say " let me enjoy myself and I will repent later when the day is about to come.


JESUS SAID "WHY DO YOU CALL ME GOOD? NO ONE IS GOOD EXCEPT GOD ALMIGHTY ALONE"
Jesus has brought Himself down to our level ( that was why He became flesh) , that's why He said that. Can I ask you this question? Did you ever read that Jesus committed  any crime, did  bad thing?
 
 JESUS HAD NO WILL
Meaning of WILL:-  A desire, purpose, or determination. *Jesus DESIRED to come to the world . Rev. 5
*He came PURPOSEFULLY to die for our sins, for our salvation, and to give us eternal life.
* He DETERMINED to die for our sins, if He didn't , He wouldn't Have allow them to captured Him. Matt 26:53  Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels?    He knew what He came to this world for, and didn't use His power change His plan. So how can you said He has no will?


 Jesus was Miraculous because he had to match
Melchizedek, who was the Jews highest Priest,
who had no father and no mother, and no
beginning and no end.

It begins with a quick summary of the story in
Genesis 14: "This Melchizedek was king of Salem
and priest of God Most High. He met Abraham
returning from the defeat of the kings and blessed
him, and Abraham gave him a tenth of
everything" ( Heb. 7:1-2).
 the unusual name is explained. The Hebrew
word melek means king, and tsedek means
righteousness, so his name is explained as
meaning "king of righteousness." And since
shalom means peace, he was also the "king of
peace" (v. 2). These titles are significant because
Melchizedek prefigures Jesus Christ.
Then we are told that Melchizedek was "without
father or mother, without genealogy, without
beginning of days or end of life, like the Son of
God he remains a priest forever" (v. 3).

Melchizedek’s name was translated “king of
righteousness” (Hebrew 7:2).
Prophet Isaiah said about Christ, “Behold, a King
will reign in righteousness…” (Isaiah 32:1).
Christ is the King of righteousness (Romans 3:24;
Hebrew 7:26).Melchizedek was called the
(Genesis 14:18), king of Salem meaning “king of
peace.” Christ is the king of peace, “For unto us a
Child is born, unto us a Son is given… and His
name will be Prince of peace. Of the increase of
His government and peace there will be no end
(Isaiah 9:6, 7). Peace started by His birth, that is
sung by the angels (Luke 2:14). He is also the
giver of peace, “Peace I leave with you My peace I
give to you; not as the world gives do I give to
you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it
be afraid” (John 14:27; cf. John 16:33).
All the kings came from Judah’s tribe and the
priests from Levi’s. However, Melchizedek was
both a king and a priest, “For Melchizedek, king
of Salem, priest of the Most High God.” (Hebrew 7:1). Christ is the only One who came as King and Priest, “He shall bear the glory,and He shall sit and rule on His throne, so He shall be a Priest on His throne” (Zachariah 6:13). This is why the wisemen offered Him gold and frankincense. Concerning His priesthood, David the Prophet said, “The Lord has sworn and will not relent, You are a Priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek” (Psalms 110:6). St. Paul indicates, “Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood… what further need was there that another priest should rise according to
the order of Melchizedek, and not be called
according to the order of Aaron?” (Hebrew 7:11).
“By so much more, Jesus has become a surety of a
better covenant” (Hebrew 7:21, 22). Melchizedek was called to be “made like the Son of God” (Hebrew 7:3). Christ is the only begotten Son of God: “We have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God” (Hebrew 4:14). Melchizedek was “without father, without mother, without genealogy” (Hebrew 7:3). Christ was without father, concerning His priesthood, because He came from Judah’s tribe and not from Levi’s “For it is evident that our Lord arose from Judah, of which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning priesthood” (Hebrew 7:14). On the
other hand, Christ, as a son of Man, was without
father; and as a Son of God is without mother
(because the Virgin Mary did not give birth to His
divinity).
Melchizedek was called to be “having neither
beginning of days nor an end of life” (Hebrew 7:3)
. Christ has no beginning of days or end of life
because He is the Alpha and the Omega, the
beginning and the end, eternal and everlasting
(Revelation 1:8). “He ever lives to make
intercession for them” (Hebrew 7:25).
About Melchizedek’s priesthood, St. Paul said, he
“remains a priest continually” (Hebrew 7:3).
Christ’s priesthood never ends but remains
forever, “But He, because He continues forever,
had an unchangeable priesthood” (Hebrew 1:24).
Melchizedek offered bread and wine for Abraham
as a sign of love. It was the only offering in the
Old Testament, which was not bloody, but from
bread and wine (Gen 14:18). Christ offered to us
His body and blood as bread and wine as the
utmost love, which He gave for us upon the cross
for our salvation (Matthew 26:26; Mark 14:22;
Luke 22:19; John 6:51-54; 1 Corinthians 11:24).

JESUS WAS MADE FROM THE WORD, AND THIS WORD BECAME FLESH.
 
Even we human being was not made by word , talk less of Jesus Christ the only begotten Son of God.  Although all the creation were made of word by God, but God had to stress Himself and mould  human. What you don't know is that before anything were created , Jesus was there with God.
So He came in form of man
I. To show us how He want us to live our lives, He received training, be beaten and so on, despite all his Glory he became flesh to show us the way.
ii. He can in form of flesh for us to believe in Him, imagine He was a spirit, no one can ever believe in Him. Despite all this (by coming in form of man) yet,you people didn't  believe in Him.
John uses the Greek word logos to describe Jesus
"in the beginning," or before creation and time
began. Logos means word, but specifically it
means the spoken word or a statement. Jesus is
God's spoken word, according to John.
John then explains that the Word (Jesus) was
"with" God and "was" God. This statement yields
two important conclusions regarding Jesus and
the Trinity: Jesus is God and existed from the
beginning as God, yet Jesus' existence is somehow
distinct from God the Father. Jesus was "with"
God and "was" God at the same time. This is the
mystery of the Trinity: all three Persons in the
Godhead are One God and yet all are distinct
from one another.
Moving to verse 3, John says that it was the Word
(Him) that created all things. From this statement,
we begin to see why Jesus is called the "Word" by
John. Consider these facts we learn from John's
Gospel and elsewhere in Scripture:
First, we know from scripture that God the Father
is Spirit (John 4:24), meaning He doesn't exist in
physical form. So, there is no physical substance
to God the Father. The Creation cannot
experience the Father as He truly is, since we are
bound to a physical dimension yet He is not
physical.
Secondly, we know that God's Spirit is likewise
invisible (John 3:6-8). He can only be known by
observing His work in the Creation.
On the other hand, Jesus is the member of the
Godhead responsible for all physical matter. As
John said, all things were made by and through
Jesus. Paul says the same thing in Col 1:15-17.
More over, Paul teaches in Colossians that Jesus is
the "image of the invisible God." Therefore, He is
the only Person in the Godhead Who has entered
into and become a part of the physical creation.
Jesus can be seen in a physical sense, because He
is the One Who entered into the Creation and
become a part of it (i.e., became incarnate).
Therefore, Jesus is the One within the Trinity Who
is associated with Creation, both as its source and
as an ambassador of the Godhead to that
creation.
Next, consider how the Creation itself was
established in Genesis 1. Genesis 1 teaches that
the world was created by the spoken word of God
(note the repeating phrase in Genesis 1, "Then
God said..."). So when God the Father determined
to created the universe and everything in it, He
"spoke" it into existence. But as John said in verse
3, Jesus was the One who made all things,
therefore we can say that Jesus was God's logos,
or spoken Word.