As'salamu Alaikum dear brothers and sisters in Islam,
A Muslim brother has asked me to go through the following link and refute it in great details:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread423757/pg1. The following is the refutation paragraph by paragraph
(I will be updating this post on regular basis, insha'Allah).
My brief update on 2/27/2013...
Just wanted to bring to your attention my favorite part of this detailed refutation to the doofus Walid Shoebat, who nick-names himself as "Wali". It is the following verses are among many below:
Daniel 11
......
43 and he will take its rich treasures of gold and silver. He will also conquer Libya and Ethiopia.[g] 44 But he will be alarmed by news from the east and the north, and he will become furious and cause great destruction. 45 After this, he will set up camp between the Mediterranean Sea and Mount Zion (Wait a minute! Did captin "crunch" Wali now invade Israel too???). Then he will be destroyed (aww, poor Wali), and no one will be able to save him.
So the enemy will be all over the map. He will invade Libya, Ethiopia, Egypt and even Israel (he will camp between the Mediterranean Sea and Mount Zion). Obviously, this couldn't be any more absurd and far from reality, if you want to be like the neo-con zionists, and consider it an End of Times "prophecy" AGAINST THE ARABS. I mean wouldn't you agree with me that these are history stories (perhaps even man-made fables) and not End of Times Prophecies?
Besides Walid, WHO INVADED LIBYA TODAY? Was it not the USA and NATO? I am not saying that this is a prophecy about them. I don't believe this is a prophecy at all! But I just wanted this to serve as a brief demonstration to show the reader how low, ridiculous and hateful the neo-con christians and zionists are, especially towards Arabs. We see how none of these so-called "prophecies" are modern-day ones. These "prophecies" are:
1- Either old prophecies that already came to pass and are long gone.
2- Are lies invented by man, as the Bible was indisputably proven to contain fabrications and lies and alterations in it, ironically according to its own theologians. Not only that, but according to the Bible's own theologians' commentaries on almost every single Bible's book and gospel (indexes on history and information before each chapter), the Bible's books and gospels were:
(a)- Written in unknown places.
(b)- Written in unknown dates.
(c)- Written by unknown people.
(d)- Altered by unknown how many times, and by whom.
Don't believe it? Visit: http://www.answering-christianity.com/authors_gospels.htm and read the MANY QUOTATIONS that I quoted for almost every single book and gospel.
Continuing with this rebuttal....
Before we begin, I want to bring to your attention Jesus Christ's (peace be upon him) statements about the relationship between the Old and New Testaments:
Luke 5:36 36 He told them this parable: “No one tears a piece out of a new garment to patch an old one. Otherwise, they will have torn the new garment, and the patch from the new will not match the old.Not that the neo-cons' Old Testament stories about the Middle East are modern-day End of Times Prophecies (because they have already come to pass as we will see below and throughout this section), but the New Testament further states that the Old Covenant and its Laws and any Prophecy that it may have.
I also would like the reader to visit this article, which is also the most important and top article on my website, which is located at:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/convert_christians.htm.
In there, I directly addressed these neo-con and zionist deceivers in great details.
She wrote:INTRODUCTION
Hello everyone! Thanks for viewing my first research project on ATS.
There has been a lot of discussion among prophecy scholars as they begin to notice the eerie similarities between certain figures and events foretold in Christian and Islamic eschatology (the study of the end times).
My response:First of all, there are no eerie similarities. The Old Testament's "Prophecies" were all made FOR and during the period of Nebuchadnezzar and the Babylonian Empire. I have thoroughly demonstrated this with ample quotes from the bible's Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Isaiah and other books at:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,669.0.html (End of Times Prophecy Fulfillment, or Garbage Full-Filling?)The reader must also visit:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/911_is_the_biggest_lie.htm to see:
1- 9/11 was 100% an Israeli mossad operation, and an inside job.
2- Islam's Prophecies about the End of Times, and the rise of the
ONE-EYED ANTI-CHRIST SYSTEM HAVE COME TRUE.
MILITARY GRADE THERMITE WAS FOUND AT GROUND ZERO, WHICH MELTED THE WTC TWIN TOWERS' PILLARS:
MISSING 2.3 TRILLION DOLLARS IS ONE OF THE MAIN CAUSES FOR 9/11
Donald Rumsfeld admitted $2.3 Trillion missing on 9/10/2001; one day before 9/11!!
It was clearly a drone or a missile that hit the pentagon, and WTC7 came down by controlled demolition explosions from bottom-up, almost simultaneously! Also, it's been scientifically proven that military-grade Thermite was used to melt the WTC pillars, which caused the buildings to collapse. 9/11 was 100% an Israeli Mossad operation!
Again, visit:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/911_is_the_biggest_lie.htm.
Also visit:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/walid_shoebat_islam_satan_rebuttal.htm
http://www.answering-christianity.com/convert_christians.htmThe reader should also watch:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/loose_change_2nd_edition_film_about_911_being_inside_job.wmvYour verses in your article, as the reader will thoroughly see insha'Allah (if Allah Almighty is Willing),
are absolutely NO DIFFERENT. They too spoke about past events that already took place thousands of years ago, and they have nothing to do with today's events.
She wrote:As most of us know, the Christian prophecies predict an Antichrist, False Prophet, an end times government system, one world religion, and the return of Christ.
My response:Not true. The New Testament predicts the coming of the anti-Christ, a LEGITIMATE PROPHET, and lots of chaos and sinning among humans, natural disasters.
In John 1:19-21, during the time of Jesus, the Israelites were still awaiting for that prophet like unto Moses prophecied in Deuteronomy 18:18. When John the Baptist came, they asked him if he was Christ and he said "no". They asked him if he was Elias and he said "no". Then, in apparent reference to Deuteronomy 18:18, they asked him
"are you that Prophet" and he answered, "no". (John 1: 1 9-2 1).
As to "like unto thee", Muhammad was like Moses because both of them:
1- Were normal human beings with a father and mother.
2- Both received Divine Revelations through Angels.
3- Both fought battles.
4- Both fought idol worship and paganism. Jesus never fought that.
5- Both married multiple women.
6- Both names start with M or meem.
7- Both had children and families.
8- Both received the Law of Thikr, which is the Law that defines the laws for its followers. The Mosaic Law or Thikr is the fundamental Law for Judaism and Christianity, and the Muhammadan Thikr is also the fundamental Law for Islam. Jesus received no law!
Also, Deuteronomy 33:1-2 combines references to Moses, Jesus and Muhammad. It speaks of God (i.e. God's revelation) coming from Sinai, rising from Seir (the village of Sa'ir near Jerusalem)
and shining forth from Paran. According to Genesis 21:21, the wilderness of Paran was the place where Ishmael settled (i.e. Arabia, specifically Mecca).
Also, Habakkuk 3:3 speaks of God (God's help) coming from
Te'man, and the holy one (coming) from Paran. In "The Dictionary of the Bible," bearing the Nihil Obstat, Imprimatur, and Imprimi Potest (official Church seals of approval), by John McKenzi, we read that "Tema" is:
"a place name and tribal name of Arabia; a son of Ishmael.... The name survives in Teima, an oasis of the part of the Arabian desert called the Nefud in N Central Arabia."This word, Tema, is the name of the ninth son of Ishmael (the father of the Arabs), in
Genesis 25:13-15 we read:
"And these are the names of the sons of Ishmael, by their names, according to their generations: the firstborn of Ishmael, Nebajoth; and Kedar, and Adbeel, and Mibsam, And Mishma, and Dumah, and Massa, Hadar, and Tema, Jetur, Naphish, and Kedemah" (Genesis 25:13-15).
In Genesis 12:2-3 And I (God) will make a nation of thee (Abraham), and I will bless them and make thy name (Abraham) great, and thou (Abraham) shalt be a blessing: and I (God) will bless them that bless thee (Abraham).
We Muslims do praise and honor Prophet Abraham in every single Prayer of our daily and nightly Prayers.
Not only that, but as we saw in Noble Verses 2:130 and 3:95, Islam is called the "Religion of Abraham".
It is not a common practice among Christians to bless and praise Abraham. On the contrary, christians DESPISE the Prophets and call them sinners. Some even go as far as declaring that many of the Prophets will burn in Hell for Eternity. ONLY THE MUSLIMS praise and bless Abraham.
She wrote:What is now becoming more known is that sects of Islam also prophesy a figure known as 'Al Mahdi' who is seen as a Messiah-like figure for Islam, as well as the return of Jesus that will reinforce the Mahdi, their own Antichrist figure known as the 'Dajjal,' and an Islamic government.
None of this may sound terribly interesting at first glance due to the fact that all three Abrahamic faiths share similarities. However, there is a twist. The startling difference is that the figure prophesied in the Judeo-Christian texts regarding the Anti-Christ is clearly shown to be the 'villain' while the anticipated Mahdi of Islam is described as being a hero and a 'messiah' of sorts.
This has led many scholars to believe the prophecies regarding the Antichrist and the Islamic Mahdi are describing and pointing to the same figure and events and that the Antichrist could ultimately be the Mahdi.
My response:I read your entire article, and I saw no references to your ridiculous assertions. Not only that, but the Hadiths also contain idioms in them, which is language that is not always to be taken literally. There are also different accounts on what the Mahdi (the one who will pave the way for Christ to come) will be like and will do. But anyway, the reader will thoroughly see,
you have provided nothing but a chart that you wrote without any references.
She wrote:OBJECTIVE
So in order to explore the similarities between Christian and Islamic eschatology, we'll review the correlations between:
1). The Antichrist of Christianity vs. Al Mahdi (the 'Redeemer') of Islam.
2). The Antichrist of Christianity vs. the Dajjal (the Antichrist) of Islam.
3). The False Prophet of Christianity vs. the Islamic Version of Jesus.
4). The End Times Empire of the Antichrist of Christianity vs. the End Times Empire of the Al Mahdi of Islam.
Throughout this project I will also be providing the historical background when necessary in order to have a foundation to explain the prophetic similarities.
My response:This is the type of garbage that Walid Shoebat spews. This clown had been thoroughly refuted in great details at:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/walid_shoebat_islam_satan_rebuttal.htm.
She wrote:GOAL
My goal with this project is to create the most comprehensive study possible on this subject and to get as close to the sources as possible. All too often dealing with this subject, I have noticed much of the research is presented without sourcing. Most of the research I have come across on this topic is also very brief and lacking in detail. Therefore, I'd like to create this thread in an effort to provide an in depth collection of the information regarding this subject while focusing on original sources.
My response:
Like the garbage that you collected, your "research" also lacks references on the important key issues that you presented against Islam. The reader will clearly see this in great details throughout this rebuttal of mine, insha'Allah (if Allah Almighty is Willing).
She wrote:NOTICES
Because others are not able to reply to this thread, please feel free to U2U me in the event:
1). You have a question regarding this topic or an issue you'd like me to investigate. I will do my best to research your inquiry and post the answer on this thread.
2). You are a fellow scholar and are interested in participating in this project. At this time, this is a solo project. However, if this topic interests you and you are willing to research this project using the highest standards of scholarship, please send me a U2U request.
3). You notice any errors in this project's research. Although I plan to be very thorough and meticulous, please contact me with your concerns if you find any of my research suspect. I will investigate your objections and if an error is indeed found to exist, I will publicly post the correction on this thread.
Thanks to everyone who has taken an interest in this topic. I'm very excited about researching this topic and sharing my discoveries.
My response:Nothing of substance to refute here.
She wrote:INTRODUCTORY POST: THE ANTICHRIST
Due to the fact most people are aware of the Antichrist figure and because we will be discussing his characteristics and actions throughout this project in depth to make comparisons to the Mahdi, this post won't be too tedious but will simply offer a brief introduction to the history of the Antichrist prophecies.
Note: Not all Christians believe a future, literal Antichrist is to appear. Those who adhere to a PRETERIST view point of Biblical prophecy believe the Antichrist prophecies were fulfilled in the life and actions of Nero while those who adhere to the interpretation of HISTORICISM believe the prophecies have been fulfilled metaphorically throughout the course of this current church age. Historicists believe the Antichrist is not a literal figure but instead a metaphor for the continual spirit of Antichrist prevalent throughout the church age.
Opposed to the Pretersist and Historicist view, this project will consist of the FUTURIST viewpoint taking on the perspective of a still future, literal, and single human Antichrist. My response:Ms. AshleyD here has conceded that her points:
1- Are considered absurd and utter nonsense by many of the Christians out there.
2- Conceded that her argument is no more than wishful thinking nonsense at best! The reason I say this is because in the ample verses that I gave in the link above,
http://www.answering-christianity.com/convert_christians.htm, the so-called "prophecies" are no more than local events of their times. This is overwhelmingly clear in the
(a)- Conversations that took place between the Characters.
(b)- The battles themselves ended and the
victorious ones were DECLARED!(c)- The prophecies were speaking about giving Syria and Egypt to Iraq's king, Nebuchadnezzar.
(d)- The times, dates and places of these events were detailed in the books of the OT, and these events already happened.
Ms. AshleyD said
"...this project will consist of the FUTURIST viewpoint..." I'd like to correct her quote with the following instead:
"...this project will consist of the GARBAGIST viewpoint...", because it is indeed no more than garbage full-filling, and not a Prophecy fulfilling.
She wrote:A Brief Summary & History of the Antichrist Prophecies
The Antichrist is given many names throughout the Hebrew and Christian texts. These titles include but are not limited to:
The Antichrist.
The Abomination that Causes Desolation.
The Man of Lawlessness.
The Son of Perdition.
The Desolater.
The Little Horn.
The Man of Sin.
The Beast/The Beast out of the Sea.
The Antichrist will ultimately be a powerful political and military world leader of the final one world government prophesied in the Bible.
My response:"The Antichrist will ultimately be a powerful political and military world leader of the final one world government prophesied in the Bible."
Yes, and that state's capital will be Israel! The zionist state is the mother of all evil. 9/11 and the stealing of Trillions from the US and the Western world, and the causes of WWI, WWII are only small examples of their long history of consipiracies and plottings.
She wrote:Although the Antichrist will be assisted by a religious leader known as 'the false prophet,' the Antichrist will also take part in this movement and demand political as well as religious allegiance. He will implement a one world monetary system as well as create a false peace with Israel who he will later betray. The Antichrist will be a fierce world dictator who will lead mankind into the most terrible period of history the world will ever know, known as the tribulation.
My response:This is where the neo-con Christians demonstrate how ridiculous and false they are. No references to your claims. And when you provide references, we find out that they are completely absurd and don't say what you claim. The reader can visit the following link to see ample examples of this:
www.answering-christianity.com/convert_christians.htm.
She wrote:Examples of Antichrist Prophecies
Because my research partner in his first post will provide a thorough list of Antichrist prophecies and because the prophecies will be analyzed in depth later, the below are only a few examples of Antichrist prophecies found in the Old and New Testaments:
My response:The reader will see how false your "prophecies" are, because they don't say what you claim.
She wrote:Example 1: The Two Shepherds of
Zechariah 11.
One of the Old Testament prophets, Zechariah, foretold the coming of two shepherds. One would be the 'Good Shepherd' while another 'Evil Shepherd' is yet to come who will be the Antichrist.
Christians believe Jesus was the 'Good Shepherd' promised to come. Even Jesus acknowledges He has fulfilled this role when He states:
I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. The hired hand is not the shepherd who owns the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it. -
John 10:11-12Reading the above linked Zechariah passage will also help clarify the good shepherd was Jesus with the prophecy:
I told them, "If you think it best, give me my pay. But if not, keep it." So they paid me thirty pieces of silver. And the LORD said to me, "Throw it to the potter"-the handsome price at which they priced me! So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of the LORD to the potter.
This is an obvious prophetic reference to us today of the betrayal by Judas. However, both the prophecy in Zechariah and Jesus allude to a future bad shepherd who will be the antithesis of Jesus, the good shepherd. Just like the bad shepherd will 'oppress the flock,' so will the Antichrist.
My response:Read Zachariah 6 & 7, and you'll see it is about some events that were happening with Babylonia. While I believe that there are certainly Prophecies about the coming of the Messiah, Jesus Christ, peace be upon him, but the so-called "End of Times Battles" are nothing but lies invented by the neo-cons.
The reader must also know that the numbering of the chapters and verses are modern. These books, while authored by unknown authors and in unknown places and dates (
www.answering-christianity.com/authors_gospels.htm), were grouped together as one text.
Here is
Zachariah 6:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Zechariah+6&version=CEVZechariah 6
Contemporary English Version (CEV)Eighth Vision: Four Chariots
6 Finally, I looked up and saw four chariots coming from between two bronze mountains. 2 The first chariot was pulled by red horses, and the second by black horses; 3 the third chariot was pulled by white horses, and the fourth by spotted gray horses.
4 “Sir,†I asked the angel. “What do these stand for?â€
5 Then he explained, “These are the four winds[a] of heaven, and now they are going out, after presenting themselves to the Lord of all the earth. 6 The chariot with black horses goes toward the north, the chariot with white horses goes toward the west,[b ] and the one with spotted horses goes toward the south.â€
7 The horses came out eager to patrol the earth, and the angel told them, “Start patrolling the earth.â€
When they had gone on their way, 8 he shouted to me, “Those that have gone to the country in the north will do what the Lord’s Spirit[c] wants them to do there.â€
The Chosen Leader
9 The Lord said to me:
10-11 Heldai, Tobijah, and Jedaiah have returned from Babylonia. Collect enough silver and gold from them to make a crown.[d] Then go with them to the house of Josiah son of Zephaniah and put the crown on the head of the high priest Joshua son of Jehozadak.[e] 12-13 Tell him that I, the Lord All-Powerful, say, “Someone will reach out from here like a branch and build a temple for me. I will name him ‘Branch,’ and he will rule with royal honors. A priest will stand beside his throne,[f] and the two of them will be good friends. 14 This crown will be kept in my temple as a reminder and will be taken care of by Heldai,[g] Tobijah, Jedaiah, and Josiah.â€[h]
15 When people from distant lands come and help build the temple of the Lord All-Powerful, you will know that the Lord is the one who sent me. And this will happen, if you truly obey the Lord your God.Footnotes:
a. Zechariah 6:5 winds: Or “spirits.†The Hebrew word may mean either.
b. Zechariah 6:6 goes toward the west: Or “follows behind.â€
c. Zechariah 6:8 Lord’s Spirit: Or “Lord.â€
d. Zechariah 6:10 a crown: Two ancient translations; Hebrew “some crowns.â€
e. Zechariah 6:10 Heldai. . . Jehozadak:
Or “Go to the house of Josiah son of Zephaniah, where you will find Heldai, Tobijah, and Jedaiah, who have returned from Babylonia. Collect enough silver and gold from them to make a crown. Then put it on the head of the high priest Joshua son of Jehozadak.â€
f. Zechariah 6:12 stand beside his throne: Or “sit on a throne.â€
g. Zechariah 6:14 Heldai: One ancient translation; Hebrew “Helem.â€
h. Zechariah 6:14 Josiah: One ancient translation; Hebrew “Hen.â€
Zechariah 7
New International Version (NIV)http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Zechariah+7&version=NIVJustice and Mercy, Not Fasting
7 In the fourth year of King Darius, the word of the Lord came to Zechariah(A) on the fourth day of the ninth month, the month of Kislev.(B) 2 The people of Bethel had sent Sharezer and Regem-Melek, together with their men, to entreat(C) the Lord(D) 3 by asking the priests of the house of the Lord Almighty and the prophets, “Should I mourn(E) and fast in the fifth(F) month, as I have done for so many years?â€She wrote:Example 2: The Man of Lawlessness of II Thessalonians 2.
This passage is a direct refutation to the concepts held in futurism and historicism claiming the Antichrist has already come or that he will not be a single man but is instead some figurative concept or government system. Some important excerpts from II Thessalonians 2 are:
Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for (that day will not come) until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing.
Many important things in the above passage:
1). He will be a physical man.
2). He is described as being different from the 'spirit of lawlessness already at work.' This is a contrast between the general Antichrist spirit throughout the age and an actual human figure who will appear and will embody this spirit.
My response:Let us take a close look at 2 Thessalonians 2:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=II%20Thessalonians%202&version=CEV 2 Thessalonians 2
Contemporary English Version (CEV)The Lord’s Return
2 When our Lord Jesus returns, we will be gathered up to meet him. So I ask you, my friends, 2 not to be easily upset or disturbed by people who claim that the Lord[a] has already come. They may say that they heard this directly from the Holy Spirit, or from someone else, or even that they read it in one of our letters. 3 But don’t be fooled! People will rebel against God. Then before the Lord returns, the wicked[b ] one who is doomed to be destroyed will appear (Take a look at your Western world today, and tell me what do you see? A pornified, sexually open and sexually sinful society that is addicted to every sin that GOD Almighty has prohibitted. Alcoholism, drugs, sexual without marriage, boyfriend-girlfriend relationships, open lewdness, sexually revealing clothes, pornography, dirty music, dirty movies, dirty TV, dirty radio, colonizations, theft, conspiracies, and much more). 4 He will brag and oppose everything that is holy or sacred. He will even sit in God’s temple and claim to be God. 5 Don’t you remember that I told you this while I was still with you?
6 You already know what is holding this wicked one back until it is time for him to come. 7 His mysterious power is already at work, but someone is holding him back. And the wicked one won’t appear until that someone is out of the way. 8 Then he will appear, but the Lord Jesus will kill him simply by breathing on him. He will be completely destroyed by the Lord’s glorious return.
9 When the wicked one appears, Satan will pretend to work all kinds of miracles, wonders, and signs. 10 Lost people will be fooled by his evil deeds. They could be saved, but they will refuse to love the truth and accept it. 11 So God will make sure that they are fooled into believing a lie. 12 All of them will be punished, because they would rather do evil than believe the truth. (Indeed, when one examines the 9/11 consipiracy, and the 2.3 TRILLION dollars that were stolen prior to it, and examines the WWI, WWII, and all other world-major mischief and evil, he'll see that it is the zionist machine that is 100% behind all of it. And this zionist machine is headquartered in the zionist state of Israel today, which symbol are the evil star and the EYE. And yes, your pornified western world are overwhelmingly fooled by this machine, and they think serving it is serving GOD Almighty and Good, when all you're doing is serving satan himself. See Islam's ample and accurate Prophecies about this evil machine during the End of Times at: http://www.answering-christianity.com/911_is_the_biggest_lie.htm.
See also the Hijacked Bible at: http://www.answering-christianity.com/convert_christians.htm).
Be Faithful
13 My friends, the Lord loves you, and it is only natural for us to thank God for you. God chose you to be the first ones to be saved.[c] His Spirit made you holy, and you put your faith in the truth. 14 God used our preaching as his way of inviting you to share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 My friends, that’s why you must remain faithful and follow closely what we taught you in person and by our letters.
16 God our Father loves us. He is kind and has given us eternal comfort and a wonderful hope. We pray that our Lord Jesus Christ and God our Father 17 will encourage you and help you always to do and say the right thing.Footnotes:
a. 2 Thessalonians 2:2 Lord: The Greek text has “day of the Lord.â€
b. 2 Thessalonians 2:3 wicked: Some manuscripts have “sinful.â€
c. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 God chose you to be the first ones to be saved: Some manuscripts have “From the beginning God chose you to be saved.â€
She wrote:(to be continued, insha'Allah)
