Muhammad was not from Mecca, but Petra.

[New World Order Cleanse]

I mean i really hope his doubts are cleared...

I used to follow the official narrative of Islam, and then went through severe sleep loss and depression when I discovered all of this material.

I couldn't reconcile the contradictions, and indeed they cannot be reconciled much like Trinitarian Christianity cannot, they clash too strongly with reality.

[New World Order Cleanse]

NWO cleanse, take your time, take a deep breath, get comfortable and write a summary...it would be easier for brother Albarra and the others to discuss your points...

I finished the video and it has ample problems.  All wishful thinking, conjecture and bias towards Petra.  Again, there are points that you just can't refute:

And I would just like to zoom in here, and look at it carefully and the presented evidence carefully. Wishful thinking and conjecture? It's a nuclear bomb of the greatest order on this religion, found nowhere in the Quran.

Bias towards Petra? Yes, I don't agree entirely with how he presented the video, he should have stuck to macro-historical data (my opinion), there is no macro-historical data supporting Mecca, it's all micro. All.

[QuranSearchCom]

British people never spoke English.  They've always spoken Arabic.  Whoever says they ever spoke English is a liar.  Whoever says that the inhabitants of England were Brits or English is a liar.  Whoever says that England is an Island is a liar.  Whoever says Muhuhammad was born in Mecca, raised in Mecca, was from the tribe of Hashim, which is part of the whole tribe of Quraysh that inhabited Mecca, and lived in Mecca most of his life is a liar.  Muhammad was a Petran! 

OK dude, you win.  I give up and I concede that you won.  Only Germans live in England.  And all speak Petran.

Osama Abdallah

[AMuslimDude213]

Forget all the historical narratives letters,etc,etc just throw that out,it doesnt exist

alright mane,you win totally. nah now being serious

Dan gibson is the reason Christians attack Islam,the Petra being Qibla myth that Dan gibson put out is STUPID and already refuted,and the maps he provided are NO historical maps at all,we need historical maps,
and even maps dont show a trade route,Narrative does,and looking at what Historical narratives say,It was most likely a Trade route

[AMuslimDude213]

Quran 48:24

وَهُوَ ٱلَّذِى كَفَّ أَيْدِيَهُمْ عَنكُمْ وَأَيْدِيَكُمْ عَنْهُم بِبَطْنِ مَكَّةَ مِنۢ بَعْدِ أَنْ أَظْفَرَكُمْ عَلَيْهِمْ ۚ وَكَانَ ٱللَّهُ بِمَا تَعْمَلُونَ بَصِيرًا
And it is He Who has restrained their hands from you and your hands from them in the midst of Makka, after that He gave you the victory over them. And Allah sees well all that ye do.

[AMuslimDude213]

https://fayezthezealot.wordpress.com/2014/12/28/makkah-historical-mecca-during-pre-islamic-period/


And again Ibn Kalbis book of Idols.

[Albarra]

I would like to return the question to you and ask: where in the Quran does it say that Muhammad was from Mecca? The Quran itself uses very few place names.

Mr. NWO,

The holy Qur'an doesn't tell a full story about Muhammad (phub) you dummy. That's why we use hadith to find the answer.
Unfortunately, because you are a Quranist, how do you know that he was from Petra? You were just guessing.
Besides, the holy Qur'an mentioned about Mecca in 48:24, but where is a verse that mentioned Petra?

Don't decline to answer my question you coward.

O by the way, Mecca has a lot of mountians, so we arrived in Ta'if airport and drove about an hour to Mecca. However, many pilgrims arrived in Jeddah's airport for Hajj.

So my question is, of course, why Saudi government didn't build a huge airport in Mecca?

[New World Order Cleanse]

Quran 48:24

وَهُوَ ٱلَّذِى كَفَّ أَيْدِيَهُمْ عَنكُمْ وَأَيْدِيَكُمْ عَنْهُم بِبَطْنِ مَكَّةَ مِنۢ بَعْدِ أَنْ أَظْفَرَكُمْ عَلَيْهِمْ ۚ وَكَانَ ٱللَّهُ بِمَا تَعْمَلُونَ بَصِيرًا
And it is He Who has restrained their hands from you and your hands from them in the midst of Makka, after that He gave you the victory over them. And Allah sees well all that ye do.

Peace.

This is the one instance of this root of "Mekka". By comparative Quranic analysis of "Bibatni" and the lexicons, "Bibatni Mekka" translates to "belly of destruction", not "midst of Mekka (city)". Mecca today is not in a belly-like structure, and so fails to impress on these sparse descriptions within the Quran.

Your religion is a psychological operation, look up what that is. The 9/11 inside job is a great example of a psychological operation that is easily demonstrable.

[QuranSearchCom]

ببطن مكة

ب = in

بطن = belly, tummy, deep.  We say بطن حامل  (BATN HAMIL), which means PREGNANT BELLY.  We also say في باطن الارض  (FEE BATIN ALARD), which means DEEP IN THE EARTH.

مكة = Mecca.


Your entire case is based on conjecture and Islam-hating bias.  As I said in my first reply to you.  Islam crushed the civilizations that surrounded it.  This is why the Islam-hating infidels are desperately trying to disprove Islam.  You seem to be another infidel, but a very stupid one.  MECCA in this Noble Verse refers to the name of the City of Mecca.  The Noble Verse most certainly assumes the name of the Holy City to have been well known by the people, especially that the Glorious Quran was revealed there, and Islam began there, and Prophet Muhammad was from there.  Mecca being the city was a given!  And the Noble Verse is directly linked to the Prophecy of opening the City of Mecca:

www.answering-christianity.com/10000.htm


When we say Alexandria, Virginia, do we mean Alexandria in Egypt or Alexandria in the state of Virginia in the USA?  When Allah Almighty mentions Mecca in Noble Verse 48:24, does He mean Petra?  Of course He meant Mecca as it was already a given to all Muslims there, since liberating the Holy City of Mecca from the infidels was their final destination.  And Petra was never ever called Mecca.

Every time you get soundly refuted, you give a very stupid answer.  Show us where Mecca means destruction.  I am waiting......

[QuranSearchCom]

The NWO guy is very confused.  There are two aspects to his argument:

1-  BACCA in the Glorious Quran is not MECCA. 

2-  Petra was Mecca.


I believe we have amply and thoroughly refuted the second one.  As to the first one, I really don't care if Mecca is Becca.  The Glorious Quran Says that Allah Almighty established His First House of Worship in Becca.  Whether Becca is Mecca or not, it doesn't matter.  Mecca remains the birth place of our Islam.

I believe he has consolidated the two points above together and is arguing for them at the same time.  And to him, if only he could prove, or cast doubt, that Mecca is not Becca, then this should automatically translate into Mecca = Petra.

I already gave you brother Idris' links in this thread where he showed from ancient writings in Mecca that it was also called Becca.  But like I said, even Mecca was not Becca, it still doesn't matter.  Mecca still remains the birth place of our Islam.



Becca in Northern Arabia?  No problem!

I'll go along with you that Becca is not Mecca.  Is this against Islam?  No.  Allah Almighty did Say that He has blessed the lands that near the land of the Farthest Mosque in Jerusalem:

[017:001] Glorified (and Exalted) be He (Allah) (above all that (evil) they associate with Him),Who took His slave (Muhammad SAW) for a journey by night from Al-Masjid-al-Haram (at Makkah) to the farthest mosque (in Jerusalem), the neighbourhood whereof We have blessed, in order that We might show him (Muhammad SAW) of Our Ayat (proofs, evidences, lessons, signs, etc.). Verily, He is the All-Hearer, the All-Seer.

So no matter how you look at it, it doesn't matter.  If Becca was near Palestine, then its no problem.  If Becca was Mecca, it's also no problem.  If Becca was Petra, it still no problem, because it is near Jerusalem.



We don't care about Becca:

Becca is an ancient city that had its time and expired.  Mecca is our Holy City, not Becca.  Mecca is where our Holy House of Allah Almighty, the Kaaba, is located.  Mecca is the point of our Prayer's directions from all over the globe.  Whether Becca is Mecca or Becca isn't, it does not matter to us.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

[shaad]

I'm a total noob on this subject but i've found an article which may help...

http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.com/2016/10/refuting-claim-petra-was-qibla-before.html?m=1

[New World Order Cleanse]

ببطن مكة

ب = in

بطن = belly, tummy, deep.  We say بطن حامل  (BATN HAMIL), which means PREGNANT BELLY.  We also say في باطن الارض  (FEE BATIN ALARD), which means DEEP IN THE EARTH.

مكة = Mecca.


Your entire case is based on conjecture and Islam-hating bias.  As I said in my first reply to you.  Islam crushed the civilizations that surrounded it.  This is why the Islam-hating infidels are desperately trying to disprove Islam.  You seem to be another infidel, but a very stupid one.  MECCA in this Noble Verse refers to the name of the City of Mecca.  The Noble Verse most certainly assumes the name of the Holy City to have been well known by the people, especially that the Glorious Quran was revealed there, and Islam began there, and Prophet Muhammad was from there.  Mecca being the city was a given!  And the Noble Verse is directly linked to the Prophecy of opening the City of Mecca:

www.answering-christianity.com/10000.htm


When we say Alexandria, Virginia, do we mean Alexandria in Egypt or Alexandria in the state of Virginia in the USA?  When Allah Almighty mentions Mecca in Noble Verse 48:24, does He mean Petra?  Of course He meant Mecca as it was already a given to all Muslims there, since liberating the Holy City of Mecca from the infidels was their final destination.  And Petra was never ever called Mecca.

Every time you get soundly refuted, you give a very stupid answer.  Show us where Mecca means destruction.  I am waiting......

You have a bad habit of not reading replies properly. I said go to the lexicon, "Mekka" is a simple noun meaning "destruction". Jeez.

[New World Order Cleanse]

I'm a total noob on this subject but i've found an article which may help...

http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.com/2016/10/refuting-claim-petra-was-qibla-before.html?m=1

I've read literally every single source on the internet, including this one and its variants.

[New World Order Cleanse]

Osama, you're trying to muddy the waters and create confusion. I am not at all interested in Becca, nor am I really interested in Petra.

I am primarily trying to show that Mecca did not exist at Muhammad's time, of which the evidence is absolutely LEGION. You religion is a psychological operation conducted by the Abbasids, information for which you can discover in Gibson's excellently presented documentary, which has recently become very popular in Bangladesh.

I think I remember Idris, I believe I posed a question to him last year and then you deleted my account and deleted my post to him specifically, whilst keeping all my other posts on the system. I just can't take you seriously.

[AMuslimDude213]

I dont even get the argument,the argument itself makes absolutely no Sense,

Somehow Mecca became Petra,Muhammad SAW somehow was a petran,even though we have historical letters like the Letter to the Romans or even the letter to the christians(Ashtiname of Muhammad) And we have his clothing and house and all the historical proofs Muhammad was a Meccan but somehow still he was a Petran because Historical narrative and the Clothings found and the houses,the historical areas,etc are irrelevant which is absolutely nonsensical,

Do you really think That they faked all the clothes,the areas of Badr,etc,etc,all these Arabian houses,all of these things in Mecca which prove Muhammad SAW was a Meccan.
And another proof from the Quran that Muhammad SAW was a Meccan was this

Al Imran 3:123–125. "Allah had helped you at Badr, when ye were a contemptible little force; then fear Allah; thus May ye show your gratitude."


This shows Muhammad SAW did indeed fight in Badr,now Muhammad SAW as we know him would never walk towards literally almost the Red sea for a battle.

And now looking at the historical proofs,I mentioned that Mecca was a trade route and Provided Proof it was.


Now please stop with this dumb claim and end it here because the more you twist it the more dumb you sound.