Asslam-o-Alaikum,
You
know the Arabic words for "Peace be upon you", which you two are fond of using but is clear to everyone that you don't
really mean it.
Both of you, should take a step back. We have a saying in my country, if the rope is taut or stretched from one end the other end should be let loose, meaning that if one person is being rigid or angry or unreasonable or whatever, the other person should up-to an equal, amount become more flexible, understanding and patient. This is usually an advice for a married couple but obviously it is a sound advice for every one.
Mufti Shafi' Usmani in his commentary on the Qur'an
Tafseer-e-Maariful Quran quotes an incident during the caliphate of one of the Abbasids. An old man came to the Caliph and said to him, I am going to strongly rebuke you. The Caliph became troubled and answered the old man that neither he was better than the Prophet Moosa nor was he, the Caliph, worse than the Pharaoh; for when Allah sent Prophet Moosa to the Pharaoh, He sent him with the following instructions:
And speak to him [i.e. Pharaoh] with gentle speech that perhaps he may be reminded or fear [Allah]."
(Qur'an, Surah Taha(20):44)
Additionally, from the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad himself:
... So by mercy from Allah , [O Muhammad], you were lenient with them. And if you had been rude [in speech] and harsh in heart, they would have disbanded from about you. So pardon them and ask forgiveness for them and consult them in the matter...
(Qur'an, Surah Al-Imran(3):159)
There is usually huge amounts of misinformation about every nation, some negative spread by inimical nations and some positive propaganda spread by the governments themselves. While most of it is because people are usually too lazy to actually do a deep enough study about something before making concrete opinions in their minds (one of the primary reasons for the hate regarding anything "Islamic"). In cases like these we should remember:
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.
(Marcus Aurelius)
And follow the common-sense guidance from the Qur'an:
قُلْ هَاتُوا بُرْهَانَكُمْ إِن كُنتُمْ صَادِقِينَ ...
... Say, "Produce your proof, if you should be truthful."
(Qur'an, Surah Al-Baqarah(2):111)
And when adequate proof has been provided, we should change our original positions or (because it is usually very difficult to do so) at the very-least take a neutral stand on the matter before things are said and done which cannot be "
unsaid" and "
undone".
I know that, you probably know all these things, but it was obvious that some things needed to be reminded.
Now, regarding Saudi Arabia, no country in the world is ideal. Every nation has its fair share of corruption and proud-full moments and I doubt Saudi Arabia is any different. The people there, whether they be the ruling monarchy or the common people also likely to have both,
good and
bad people.
There is a method in argumentation called
Moral Reframing which is basically: Because of the reason different groups of people endorse different moral values to varying extents, it is effective to use moral arguments reframed to fit the moral narratives of the target audience.
As, obviously, you have
huge difference of opinion on the matter of Al-Saud, I would humbly (
very humbly) suggest that you make the Islamic ideals as the "moral narrative" to judge who is
more right. (Remember neither of you are likely to be completely right or completely wrong about everything here).
I will start this discussion, by saying very respectfully to Osama Abdullah, to keep in mind the first two verses mentioned above. After this I will try to criticize a few of both of your points so that you can direct some of that "excitement" towards me instead of each-other.
To
Abdullah Almadi,
I don't think any Muslim, who knows about history, does not appreciate the contributions of King Faisal. The Pakistanis changed the name of their third largest city after his name. His loss was indeed a great loss for the
Ummah. But from the point-of-view of a comparatively objective, albeit ignorant, person; the question remains, why did the following rulers not pursue the policies with the same enthusiasm? I understand to some small extent the need to keep alliances with the US, and it would go against Islam for the Saudis to go against a covenant they might have made in the past with the Americans, but again from what I know of King Faisal he wouldn't have supported such alliances especially with the most important supporter of Israel.
Increasing the size of Masjid Al-Haram is of course a valuable contribution, but it would not be entirely correct to say that this is done completely altruistically. From what I understand the revenue generated by the in-coming pilgrims provides economic activity for the country.
Regarding Egypt (or any other country, for that matter) allowing alcohol and swine meat, as far as I have read about Islam, does not go directly against Islam as such things are allowed for non-Muslims living under Muslim rulers.
The Al-Saud's using their family name might not go directly against Islam, but it isn't idealistic either. Similarly, Islam might not explicitly and absolutely prohibit Monarchy, but it is definitely against the methodology set-up by the Rashiddun Caliphate.
To
Osama Abdullah,
You gave a lot of statements but no references to back them up.
Regarding "... even if the ruler DOES LEWDNESS AND DRINKS ALCOHOL IN MECCA NEAR THE KAABA, his rule would still be valid." I believe the Sheikh was using the narrations such as the following as support for his ruling:
Prophet Muhammad said, “There will be leaders after me who will demand their rights from you but will withhold your rights from you.” They said, “What do you command us then O Messenger of Allāh” He said, “Fulfil the rights you owe to them and supplicate to Allāh for your rights.” He also said, “Whoever amongst you sees from his ruler something (objectionable), let him have patience with him for whoever separates from the main body by a handspan has thrown the yoke of Islām from his neck.”
He also said, “Whoever departed from obedience and separated from the main body will have died a death of Jāhiliyyah (days of pre-Islāmic ignorance).”
He also said, “The best of your leaders are those whom you love and who love you, and whom you pray for and they pray for you. The worst of your rulers are the ones whom you hate and who hate you, and whom you curse and who curse you.” They said, “Shall we not fight them?” He said, “No, so long as they pray”.
All of these traditions are in the Ṣaḥīḥ (of al-Bukhārī) along with other traditions like them.
I am having internet problems at the moment, so I am unable to search for the exact references.
Anything and
everything I say could be
completely and
unequivocally incorrect, for which I apologize in advance.
And lastly,
Anas bin Malik told that the Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi wa Sallam) said: "(O! Muslims) Do not hate each other, do not envy one another, and do not be hostile to one another (standing back to back), rather be brothers (as) servants of Allah. A Muslim is not allowed to desert his brother (Muslim) more than three days." This means, as explained in the Sunan: To avoid whatsoever may cause hatred, and none of you should wish the termination of other's amenity, whether you wish it for yourself or not, and do not break off from one another more than three nights with their days.
It has also been stated in Sunan Abu Dawood by Abu Hurairah that the Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi wa Sallam) said: "The Muslim is not allowed to abandon a Muslim brother more than three (nights). If three days pass and he meets him, he should greet him. If he (the other believer) returns his greeting, then they share the reward; but if he does not return it, he (alone) will incur the sin." Ahmad added: 'And the Muslim is then freed from the desertion.' In another Hadith (it says): "He who breaks off from his (Muslim) brother more than three and dies (during this period) will go to Hell." In another Hadith (it says): "He who deserts his (Muslim) brother for a year is like shedding his blood."
Source: http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/index.php?page=showfatwa&Option=FatwaId&Id=86772
