Author Topic: Confusion!!!!  (Read 79049 times)

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Offline FARHAN_UDDIN

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Re: Confusion!!!!
« Reply #30 on: November 15, 2013, 05:37:16 PM »
Assalamualykum.


  '' It is not allowable for the sun to reach the moon, nor does the night overtake the day, but each, in an orbit, is swimming.''(36:40)


 Okay, why Quran says ''It is not allowable for the sun to reach the moon...''? Sun can't only overtake moon but also Earth and other planets. Does it mean that sun and moon's orbit is same? And what's the meaning of night and day orbit? Both take place on Earth. They don't have any orbit.


 In some translations I find ''''....but each, in an orbit, is swimming.....'' while in some I find, ''...but each travelling in its own orbit.....''. Which one is correct?
« Last Edit: November 15, 2013, 05:40:41 PM by FARHAN_UDDIN »

Offline mclinkin94

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Re: Confusion!!!!
« Reply #31 on: November 15, 2013, 07:10:42 PM »
Assalamualykum.


  '' It is not allowable for the sun to reach the moon, nor does the night overtake the day, but each, in an orbit, is swimming.''(36:40)


 Okay, why Quran says ''It is not allowable for the sun to reach the moon...''? Sun can't only overtake moon but also Earth and other planets. Does it mean that sun and moon's orbit is same? And what's the meaning of night and day orbit? Both take place on Earth. They don't have any orbit.


 In some translations I find ''''....but each, in an orbit, is swimming.....'' while in some I find, ''...but each travelling in its own orbit.....''. Which one is correct?


Because the physical laws in which Allah has put in place for the sun and moon do not allow them to intersect in their orbits.

The verse simply means that the sun and the moon are in an Oribit--and they are. If the Quran has said that they are in an Orbit around the earth that is a contradiction, isn't it amazing how the Quran avoided that so that it simultaneously supported 7th century ignorance as well as modern understanding? Its AMAZING!

Side note: Remember Allah creates a self-sustaining universe with laws, this therefore makes him the sustainer

(Quran 41:10-11) and He blessed it and determined therein its sustenance in four days without distinction - for [the information] of those who ask. Then He directed Himself to the heaven and it was smoke and said to it and to the earth, "Come [into being]

^In here you see that Allah has determined all the sustenance of the Earth to be 4 days, then (after he determined the sustenance) he made the heavens and the earth to come into existence. So here is a case in which the sustenance of the Earth was determined before the creation of the Earth. In other words, Allah created a self-sustaining world which therefore makes him the sustainer of the world.

Here is another verse that nails it:

(Quran 7:54) He created the sun, the moon, and the stars, (all) governed by laws under His command. Is it not His to create and to govern? Blessed be Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds!

^Everything is governed by Allah laws. This Makes Allah the Sustainer. He set the laws in motion in a self-sustaining world and therefore he is the sustainer. This verse clearly says that whatever exists in the universe is governed by laws under his command and because of that Allah is the sustainer of the worlds.

Offline ThatMuslimGuy

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Re: Confusion!!!!
« Reply #32 on: November 15, 2013, 07:50:22 PM »
Assalamualykum.


  '' It is not allowable for the sun to reach the moon, nor does the night overtake the day, but each, in an orbit, is swimming.''(36:40)


 Okay, why Quran says ''It is not allowable for the sun to reach the moon...''? Sun can't only overtake moon but also Earth and other planets. Does it mean that sun and moon's orbit is same? And what's the meaning of night and day orbit? Both take place on Earth. They don't have any orbit.


 In some translations I find ''''....but each, in an orbit, is swimming.....'' while in some I find, ''...but each travelling in its own orbit.....''. Which one is correct?

WalaikumAsalam
Mclinkin has pretty much answered it. The arabic text just teaches that they have there own separate orbits.

As for which translation is correct. Both really. The word used means move,swim,float etc Basically saying both the celestial bodies are moving:

The Arabic word used in the above verse is yasbahun. The word yasbahun is derived from the word sabaha. It carries with it the idea of motion that comes from any moving body. If you use the word for a man on the ground, it would not mean that he is rolling but would mean he is walking or running. If you use the word for a man in water it would not mean that he is floating but would mean that he is swimming. Similarly, if you use the word yasbah for a celestial body such as the sun it would not mean that it is only flying through space but would mean that it is also rotating as it goes through space.

The Arabic word used in the above verse is yasbah
« Last Edit: November 15, 2013, 07:53:25 PM by ThatMuslimGuy »

Offline FARHAN_UDDIN

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Re: Confusion!!!!
« Reply #33 on: November 20, 2013, 03:43:37 PM »
: To Him belongs what is in the heavens and on earth, and all between them, and all beneath the soil.(20:6)


 Can anyone explain what Allah meant by ''and all between them'' ?

  Stars, planets, suns, moons, atmosphere, clouds everything is within the boundary of the lowest heaven not in between the earth and the heaven . Moreover earth itself is within the lowest Heaven. So what's the meaning of this verse.


Please help.


Offline mclinkin94

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Re: Confusion!!!!
« Reply #34 on: November 20, 2013, 10:48:35 PM »
: To Him belongs what is in the heavens and on earth, and all between them, and all beneath the soil.(20:6)


 Can anyone explain what Allah meant by ''and all between them'' ?

  Stars, planets, suns, moons, atmosphere, clouds everything is within the boundary of the lowest heaven not in between the earth and the heaven . Moreover earth itself is within the lowest Heaven. So what's the meaning of this verse.


Please help.

Salam,

Picture the Earth as a place and picture ALL that is above/around the earth as a place (heavens). He created the Earth and the Heavens, and ALL that exists between.

When God says that He created the Heavens, Earth and EVERYTHING IN BETWEEN (including you and me) in six days this means that He is referring to the period of existence. Earth has been in existence for 2 days (out of 6) as Quran 41:9 states. The Quran in many places says that the universe is 6 days. That means the universe has existed for 6 days/periods at the time of the Quranic revelation. This is (again) because it says that Allah created everything in between the Earth and the Universe in 6 days--that means that ALL of the creatures that were currently present at the time of Quranic revelation. New creations have occurred after that time, new planets were formed and they became everything in between the heavens and the Earth. That meant that after a long period of time, Allah would say that he created the Earth and the heavens and everything in between in 7+ days.

n God's Throne time, Earth is 2 days old while the Heavens, Earth and everything in between are 6 days old. This makes the age of Earth to be one third the age of the universe (2/6 = 1/3). Similarly in Earth time, the age of Earth is 4.567 billion years while the age of the universe is 13.7 billion years; this is also one third (4.567 bln/13.7 bln = 1/3). So it is the same ratio in Earth time or in God's Throne time [8]. The theory of general relativity explains why time at God's Throne passes slower than on Earth. General relativity explains why 6 days passed at God's Throne but we measured it as 13.7 billion years (that is each day at God's Throne measures around 2.28 billion years on Earth).

Hope that clears it up.

I noticed in your posts that you are very interested in space/astronomy. I have something great for you!

Quran 41:9-12 Say, "Do you indeed disbelieve in He who created the earth in two days and attribute to Him equals? That is the Lord of the worlds.", And He placed on the earth firmly set mountains over its surface, and He blessed it and determined therein its sustenance in four days without distinction - for [the information] of those who ask, Then He directed Himself to the heaven while it was smoke and said to it and to the earth, "Come [into being], willingly or by compulsion." They said, "We have come willingly.", And He completed them as seven heavens within two days and inspired in each heaven its command. And We adorned the nearest heaven with lamps and as protection. That is the determination of the Exalted in Might, the Knowing.

So these verses say that Allah created the Earth in 2 days. Allah also put on the earth mountains. Allah also determined/decreed the Earth's sustenance in 4 days! In here you see that Allah has determined all the sustenance of the Earth in 4 days, then (after he determined the sustenance) he made the heavens and the earth to come into existence. And they came to existence as "dukhan"---SMOKE, GAS!. The accuracy here is AMAZING! Science testifies to this.

Here is the timeline:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------=6 days
-----------------------------------------------------4--------------------------2
*Period in which Allah determined Earth's
Sustenance (4 days).

                                                                       *Earth existed after that 4 day period for 2 days.

So Allah decreed Earth's formation to be 4 days since the universe's creation...after he determined everything, he made everything come to existence.

Offline FARHAN_UDDIN

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Re: Confusion!!!!
« Reply #35 on: November 22, 2013, 04:09:50 AM »
Assalamualykum.


 http://rationalislam.blogspot.com/2012/11/speed-of-light-miracle-in-qurandebunked.html


 Brothers please refute the above article. :-\ :-\ :'( :'(

Offline ThatMuslimGuy

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Re: Confusion!!!!
« Reply #36 on: November 22, 2013, 06:00:38 AM »
Assalamualykum.


 http://rationalislam.blogspot.com/2012/11/speed-of-light-miracle-in-qurandebunked.html


 Brothers please refute the above article. :-\ :-\ :'( :'(

Wow i found that very weak.

First things first he accepts that the Quranic verse is accurate. Meaning the verse is correct in its calculations. Meaning that the "miracle" is valid.

Secondly his rebuttal is simply saying well if  i use another number i can get a similar number.

That hasnt debunked the miracle at all. Thats just wining about it after realising its true. Therefore saying errrm well if another number is used we get similar answer therefore no miracle here guys. Which is just nonsense.

The denial of these people bemuses me.

Regardless our faith in the Quran shouldnt be solely based in this. There are for more greater miracles than this:

1. Linguistic miracle
2. Prophecies in the Quran that came true
3. Historical miracle.
4. Scientific miracle, far better than this one e.g. expanding universe

Personally this link didnt dent me at all. Because he doesnt actually debunk the math. He says the math is correct. Thus the "miracle" claim is correct.
Even if he did say the math was incorrect it shouldnt effect our faith in the Quran as it has far more greater miracles than this one.

Hope this helps.


Offline mclinkin94

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Re: Confusion!!!!
« Reply #38 on: November 23, 2013, 11:21:29 PM »
Assalamualykum.


 http://rationalislam.blogspot.com/2012/11/speed-of-light-miracle-in-qurandebunked.html


 Brothers please refute the above article. :-\ :-\ :'( :'(

There is a big problem with this article!

The Islamic character never calculated light speed from the time dilation equation, it only used it to calculate the speed of the angels. Then we compared it to the speed of angels at 12000 Lunar Orbits/Earth Day; it is the same speed in km/sec...

Ignorance at a larger degree, eh?

Offline FARHAN_UDDIN

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Re: Confusion!!!!
« Reply #39 on: November 24, 2013, 07:16:03 AM »
'' It is not allowable for the sun to reach the moon, nor does the night overtake the day, but each, in an orbit, is swimming.''(36:40)


 Enbiya/33
It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: all (of them) swim in an orbit.



 Okay in some articles it is said that the above verses are talking about the motion of everything including sun,moon,earth,planets and stars. But how? Because the verses only mention sun, moon and earth? If I say Ibrahim and Ali, Sami and Abdel, Ahmad and Uthman everyone is a good player or all are good players will it imply also the people whose names are unmentioned?  Can anyone explain this in detail?



 And does Quran say anything about earth's motion around the Sun? And Moon's motion around the earth?

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: Confusion!!!!
« Reply #40 on: November 24, 2013, 11:34:21 AM »
'' It is not allowable for the sun to reach the moon, nor does the night overtake the day, but each, in an orbit, is swimming.''(36:40)


As'salamu Alaikum dear brother,

People were asking the Prophet, peace be upon him, if the sun and the moon were ever going to collide.  The people thought that the sun and the moon were both running on one lane or line or orbit or path, and that they're together, and that if one slows down, then the other would catch up to it and they'd ultimately collideAllah Almighty responded to this nonsense by making it absolutely clear that the sun and the moon are traveling in entirely different orbits, and that they could not catch up to each others and collide.  So what the empty anti-Islamics of today try to prove as a scientific blunder in the Holy Quran turns out to be an accurate Scientific Statement and a Scientific Miracle of its time.

Also,  the Holy Quran Said that the moon's orbit is S-Shaped.  Allah Almighty never said the same about the sun's orbit.

Enbiya/33
It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: all (of them) swim in an orbit.


Same exact reponse as above.  Yes, they're not on the same orbit.  This is Scientifically estabilished.  And again, the Holy Quran Said that the moon's orbit is S-Shaped.  Allah Almighty never said the same about the sun's orbit.

Okay in some articles it is said that the above verses are talking about the motion of everything including sun,moon,earth,planets and stars. But how? Because the verses only mention sun, moon and earth? If I say Ibrahim and Ali, Sami and Abdel, Ahmad and Uthman everyone is a good player or all are good players will it imply also the people whose names are unmentioned?  Can anyone explain this in detail?

And does Quran say anything about earth's motion around the Sun? And Moon's motion around the earth?

Allah Almighty started the Noble Verse with speaking only about the sun and the moon, and the night and the day.  But ended it by saying ALL swimming in their independent orbits.  This is referring here to all celestial bodies in the Universe.  This is further clearly proven in other Noble Verses where Allah Almighty talking about the orbits of the celestial bodies, and how once in space, traveling becomes in orbits.  Please visit the following video of Dr. Zaghloul Al-Najjar.  He thoroughly and beautifully explained this beautiful Miracle in the Holy Quran with ample examples and details:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/day_layer_reveals_the_sun_brightness.wmv

All celestial bodies are يعرجون Yaa'rujoon (traveling in orbits) in space.  The video in the link speaks about the countless orbits in the Universe, and the day-layer reveals the sun's brightness.  This video is about Noble Verses 32:5, 34:2, 57:4, 70:3-4 and others, and the Arabic words عرج , عروج , معارج  and  معراج  that all refer to "going in an orbital and curvy path" in the Glorious Quran and our Islamic Texts.

Also visit:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/seas_dont_mix_and_orbit_of_earth_in_noble_quran.wmv
http://www.answering-christianity.com/motion_of_earth.htm
http://www.answering-christianity.com/egg-shaped_earth.htm
http://www.answering-christianity.com/orbits.wmv
http://www.answering-christianity.com/precise_prophecy_about_traveling_up_to_space_in_noble_quran.wmv (by Sheikh Yusuf Estes)
http://www.answering-christianity.com/the_earth_like_a_cradle.wmv
http://www.answering-christianity.com/sun_orbit.htm
http://www.answering-christianity.com/allah_and_science.htm
http://www.answering-christianity.com/moon_orbit_miracle.htm
http://www.answering-christianity.com/daylight_and_moon_miracle.wmv
http://www.answering-christianity.com/skin_day_from_night_miracle.htm
http://www.answering-christianity.com/sun_rays_miracle.htm

And the main section on overwhelming Scientific Miracles in the Holy Quran, on this website, please visit:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#links

I will update the text-articles with this response today, insha'Allah (if Allah Almighty is Willing).

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline FARHAN_UDDIN

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Re: Confusion!!!!
« Reply #41 on: November 24, 2013, 02:08:05 PM »
Thanks for your excellent explanation. May Allah bless you, your family and the entire Muslim Ummah. Ameen
« Last Edit: November 29, 2013, 05:23:40 PM by FARHAN_UDDIN »

Offline ThatMuslimGuy

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Re: Confusion!!!!
« Reply #42 on: November 24, 2013, 04:24:45 PM »


 Okay in some articles it is said that the above verses are talking about the motion of everything including sun,moon,earth,planets and stars. But how? Because the verses only mention sun, moon and earth? If I say Ibrahim and Ali, Sami and Abdel, Ahmad and Uthman everyone is a good player or all are good players will it imply also the people whose names are unmentioned?  Can anyone explain this in detail?


That Arabic says All - refering to all the celestial bodies in space. Watch this video that explains the arabic well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1gRzImeWL8

Offline FARHAN_UDDIN

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Re: Confusion!!!!
« Reply #43 on: November 27, 2013, 03:51:39 PM »
 And the moon darkens.(75: 8 )

  And the sun and the moon are joined,(75:9)


 Can anyone explain the above verses? Why Allah says that the moon and the sun will be joined? As sun is much bigger than the moon , it should swallow it not get joined with it. I'm confused. I have read some articles where they say that through these verses Allah says that Sun will swallow the Moon before the Final Hour. But the verse uses ''JOINED'' not ''SWALLOWED''. Or is it talking about Solar eclipse? If so then the translation might me wrong.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2013, 08:44:29 AM by QuranSearchCom »

Offline FARHAN_UDDIN

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Re: Confusion!!!!
« Reply #44 on: November 27, 2013, 05:53:12 PM »
 PLEASE HELP ME WITH THE ABOVE CONFUSION :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

 

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