When the Quran says the 'heavens and the Earth' is it referring to the universe

[FARHAN_UDDIN]

ASSALAMUALYKUM.

 Brother heaven means the entire Universe. The word used for universe is السَّمَاوَاتِ  Brother this word is much appropriate than "alkawn." this is because heaven means the universe, the dimensions of the universe and  everything. And there might be other secrets which we still don't know. And as I have told you earlier it's Allah's divine choice. Just take for an example, Allah used "Kawkab" to refer to the planets and the word "Najm" to refer to the stars. But the early Muslims were unaware of this fact. They took "kawkab" and "najm" both as stars. I think they also came across this problem what you are facing now.

Just read the article given bellow to know how Allah differentiate between a planet and a star:

   http://www.islam-guide.com/bqs/17astronomy.htm



In the same way, Allah used    السَّمَاوَاتِ
 not  الكون  to refer to the universe. There has to be a reason behind this as this is Allah's divine choice. Inshallah with the advancement of Science we will come to know about the secret. And brother sky also means the universe. What do you mean by sky? Time, space, planets, stars etc. And our universe is composed of all these things.ALLAH KNOWS THE BEST


Now lets come to the next point.   


   Quran 41:11) Then He directed Himself to the heaven while it was smoke and said to it and to the earth, "Come [into being], willingly or by compulsion." They said, "We have come willingly."



 Brother first, Allah says He directed to the heaven while it had been a smoke . From this it's clear that earth and other components of the Universe were once together. And Allah knows, which portion of the smoke will be earth and which will be other planets and stars. That's why Allah addressed that portion of the smoke as earth, because He knew that portion of the smoke is earth.
"and said to it and to the earth" this proves that they were together and Allah is ordering them to get apart. ALLAH KNOWS THE BEST

The third and last point.



[Quran 20.6] To Him belongs what is in the Heavens and what is on Earth and what is between them and what is under the soil.


 Well brother I'm not sure of this verse but still I'll try my best to explain it to you. Brother as I have told you earlier that our universe might have some dimensions or layers as the scientists say. And our earth and all other planets and stars are in the first layer. So I think by this verse Allah wants to say that what ever is between the earth and the layers of the heavens belongs to Him. Brother I'm not sure about this explanation. Do one thing. Post a new thread on this topic, so that the topic is high lighted and brother Osama can help you with this.ALLAH KNOWS THE BEST

 May Allah forgive me if I have misinterpreted any of the facts above.

Take Care. 

[Egyptian]

ASSALAMUALYKUM.

 Brother heaven means the entire Universe. The word used for universe is السَّمَاوَاتِ  Brother this word is much appropriate than "alkawn." this is because heaven means the universe, the dimensions of the universe and  everything.

ASSALAMUALYKUM. Bro FARHAN_UDDIN ....

 السَّمَاوَاتِ (alsamawaat) means the entire universe, the dimensions of the universe and  everything. ?!
could you please support that from a dictionary or the Quran?

Bro mclinkin94 ,I will get back to your question after we settle the meaning of "samawat" inshallah....


peace

[FARHAN_UDDIN]

WALYKUMUSSALAM, brother Egyptian


 Brother, let me explain why I think السَّمَاوَاتِ (alsamawaat) means the entire universe, the dimensions of the universe and  everything.


 Then He directed Himself to the heaven while it was smoke and said to it and to the earth, "Come [into being], willingly or by compulsion." They said, "We have come willingly."


 Brother in the above ayah Allah is saying that everything was one single mass and this includes stars,planets,time,space,atoms and everything. Later they were separated, thus seven heavens came into being. Brother Allah says: "Then He directed Himself to the heaven while it was smoke" this means Allah turned to the heavens when it had been a smoke, and here heaven means everything(space,time,dimensions,stars,planets,atoms etc). And no where in the Quran as far as I know, Allah didn't use any other word except 'heaven' to refer to the entire universe. That's why I believe the word "Heaven" includes everything.Well ALLAH KNOWS THE BEST.

 Brother my explanation might not be proper. If I'm wrong please correct me.

May Allah The Most High shower His unending blessing upon you and the people of Egypt.

Take Care.

[Egyptian]

Then He directed Himself to the heaven while it was smoke and said to it and to the earth, "Come [into being], willingly or by compulsion." They said, "We have come willingly."
 Brother in the above ayah Allah is saying that everything was one single mass and this includes stars,planets,time,space,atoms and everything. Later they were separated, thus seven heavens came into being.

ASSALAMUALYKUM. Bro FARHAN_UDDIN ...

 I think you mean another verse in  Sura 21:30, which states: "Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and We separated them and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe?"

Brother Allah says: "Then He directed Himself to the heaven while it was smoke" this means Allah turned to the heavens when it had been a smoke, and here heaven means everything(space,time,dimensions,stars,planets,atoms etc). And no where in the Quran as far as I know, Allah didn't use any other word except 'heaven' to refer to the entire universe. That's why I believe the word "Heaven" includes everything.

The heavens(alsamawat) ,according to the quran are seven heaven ,it means they have a dimension ,a begnning and end ...that doesn't means there exist nothing beyond their dimension.

while (alkawn) is defind in the Arabic dictionary as, the absolute existence of everything ( الوجودُ المطلق العام).... not merely the observable universe.....

that means heaven"alsamawat" are specified part of the absolute existence "alkawn".



May Allah bless you.

Take Care.
[/quote]

[FARHAN_UDDIN]

ASSALAMUALYKUM.


 Brother Egyptian, you are right. But brother alkawn is a new word in Arabic isn't it? And the English word universe is also new. Allah is without space without time. That means Allah is outside the Heavens. And I think Humans will never know anything which is outside the Heavens.Because it's impossible. What ever they will do, whatever discoveries they will make, will be limited within the Heavens. And  I completely agree with your view. Thanks Brother.

 May Allah forgive me if I have misinterpreted any fact.


Brother Egyptian I think you have seen my new thread regarding Sana manuscripts. Please help me to solve my problems and confusions I'm facing. I know brother Osama will help me, and I also request you to help me. Please


 May Allah The Most High protect the people of Egypt from the ongoing crisis. Ameen

 

[mclinkin94]

Aslamu Alaikum!

Can anyone find out of Al-Kawn is a new word in Arabic and didn't exist in the time the Quran was revealed? 

[FARHAN_UDDIN]

ASSALAMUALYKUM.


 1580s, "the whole world, cosmos," from Old French univers (12c.), from Latin universum "the universe," noun use of neuter of adj. universus "all together," literally "turned into one," from unus "one" (see one) + versus, past participle of vertere "to turn" (see versus). Properly a loan-translation of Greek to holon "the universe," noun use of neuter of adj. holos "whole" (see safe (adj.)).

Source: http://www.etymonline.com/


Brother I think al-kawn is an old Arabic word but it's application is totally new.Now it's used to refer universe but the word universe emerged not more than 600 years ago.

Allah knows the best

Take Care

[mclinkin94]

ASSALAMUALYKUM.


 1580s, "the whole world, cosmos," from Old French univers (12c.), from Latin universum "the universe," noun use of neuter of adj. universus "all together," literally "turned into one," from unus "one" (see one) + versus, past participle of vertere "to turn" (see versus). Properly a loan-translation of Greek to holon "the universe," noun use of neuter of adj. holos "whole" (see safe (adj.)).

Source: http://www.etymonline.com/


Brother I think al-kawn is an old Arabic word but it's application is totally new.Now it's used to refer universe but the word universe emerged not more than 600 years ago.

Allah knows the best

Take Care

Hi, Thanks for your help so far: But I am still not entirely convinced

Do you think the word 'Al-Kawn' has the same origins as the English word 'Universe'?

[FARHAN_UDDIN]

ASSALAMUALYKUM.

      Brother, as I have explained before that the application of the word "Universe" to mean "Cosmos" is totally new. Before 1400s no one had any specific idea about the "Cosmos". By the word "Sky" they used to mean the "Cosmos". This is because the word sky means everything above or infinite vision into the deep space . Sky=Universe. Please read the below article to understand what is sky.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky

 Now I'm not 100% sure how old the word "Al-kawn" is. Even if it's old, it's application is totally new. Because the application of the word "Universe" to mean the "Cosmos" is new. And you won't find the word "Al-Kawn" anywhere in the Quran, Hadiths or any ancient Arabic manuscripts where it means or refers to "Cosmos". At that time people used to use "Sky" to refer to the "Cosmos". And it's true sky means the Universe as I have explained this earlier.

 Our Quran that's why for better understanding of the people of all times used the word "Heavens" to refer to the "Cosmos". And as you know the Muslims at that time failed to understand most of the Universal facts of the Quran due to their limited knowledge.

 Brother mclinkin I'm suggesting you to go through the article given below thoroughly. You'll find most of your answers regarding the Big Bang in the Quran there.

 http://kaheel7.com/eng/index.php/astronomu-a-space/277-miracles-of-allah-in-the-heaven-


Brother, I think I made a mistake by not posting the link of the above article before. I'm sorry. It would have removed most of the confusions.


 Whatever, Allah knows the best. And again I want to say, using the word "Heavens" is Allah's divine choice. There might be more secrets hidden in this very word, which we can't understand due to our limited knowledge.


 Brother one last thing, Quran is not a book of Science it's a book of Signs. So it's obvious that Quran won't use Scientific words to refer to the Scientific facts. Neither it will prove them. It will just indicate to Scientific facts and it will be our responsibility to prove them.

MAY ALLAH SHOWER HIS UNENDING BLESSINGS UPON YOU AND YOUR FAMILY.AMEEN


Take Care.

[mclinkin94]

Thank you brother Farhan and Egyptian for that clarification.

[FARHAN_UDDIN]

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