regarding the shooting stars in the Quran

[pascoe]

Also I was reading your page on the Arabic word minha in 67:5 that it can mean them not just it but can you explain how because I didn't understand what you meant how it can because I thought it has to point to the single thing like the heaven

[pascoe]

Because if the other translation is correct how would the miracle still stand because if the heaven is doing the throwing that would be wrong because it is the stars that do the throwing not the heaven

[Mohmed Shahid]

assalamu alaikum brothers.. I posted some doubts above. No one replied to my doubts. I hope for a reply from all. Especially from our admin Osama Abdallah.. brother waiting for ur reply 😊

[AMuslimDude213]

Tell us the doubt and we will surely reply.

[Mohmed Shahid]

assalamu alaikum brothers

when i read this article i came up with some doubts. inshallah hope u will clarify this.

1.its mentioned in the article that the jins where shot down by a shooting flame, whether it be a Gamma Ray Burst, a Cosmic Jet, or any other similar fire.


but [surah 67:5] it says
And certainly We have adorned this lower heaven with lamps and We have made these missiles for the Shaitans, and We have prepared for them the chastisement of burning.

in this verse it says LAMPS are used as missiles

the literal meaning for missile is
"an object which is forcibly propelled at a target, either by hand or from a mechanical weapon"

so by comparing the literal meaning of missile with ur article. LAMPS i.e, pulsars,black hles or neutron stars (whatever it may be) should be used as missiles. but ur article says that only radiation (gamma ray burst or cosmic jet or any other type of rays or fire) and not pulsars,black holes or neutron stars are targetted at them. can u plz explain this ?

2.when moved through ur website. i see two answers or different explanations for verse 67:5

one explanation in this article (link: http://www.answering-christianity.com/shooting_stars_miracle.htm)
saying that the verse refers PULSARS.

while another article (link: http://www.answering-christianity.com/quran/4701.htm)
says like this "these verses present no problem regarding science, because they are not talking about celestial phenoema as objects of scientific study, but instead talking about celestial phenomena as sources of misguidance for soothsayers and astrologers. In brief, the Qur'an simply says about them that for astrologers, their misguidance regarding celestial phenomena will be a source of punishment for them, and that they can gain no information about the future by trying to look at the stars."

my question is why this dilemma.. because,for people searching for a correct answer will put them in doubts if they where to see 2 different opinions. if one is true or a correct answer then why cant u remove the other one ?

3. i wish to quote a statement of our brother regarding this verse because im not satisfied with that point

he said that "Think about that, could stars then not be used as missiles if they are going THAT fast along with the universe.
Our own sun goes at 220 km/s. That's pretty fast if you ask me: Especially If I was moving at a slower speed next to that star. Not only would the star's immense gravity pull me towards it, but it would be coming at me at 220 km/s!  And if I get close enough, I would get incinerated."

i m not satisfied with this answer because, stars with 220 km/s may be like missiles to us. but here these missiles are to shoot jinns.
it given in wikipedia that
"Some of the closest known neutron stars are RX J1856.5-3754, which is about 400 light years away, and PSR J0108-1431 at about 424 light years.[49] RX J1856.5-3754 is a member of a close group of neutron stars called The Magnificent Seven."

so i think jins need to be too faster to reach the 2nd heaven or somewhere in our universe (as we are in the lower heaven)

so what i was trying t say is that speed of a star will be too low for a jinn (logically i think so)

4.i feel really weird in discarting hadiths which we feel illogical (Sahih Muslim, Book 026, Number 5538)

i mean then how could we claim other hadiths are authentic which speaks about prophets moral code and the hadiths which usually people call PEARLS OF PROPHET MUHAMMAD.

once an atheist frnd of mine quoted like this
"muslims if they feel,hadiths are good they take it. if felt illogical they discart it."
what will be ur answer for this statement ?

[QuranSearchCom]

Wa Alaikum As'salam dear brother Mohamed,

The following are your answers:

1-  The Noble Verse does not say missiles.  This is not an accurate translation.  There are other more accurate ones:

www.answering-christianity.com/cgi-bin/quran/quran_search1.cgi?search_text=67%3A5&B1=Search

 
2-  Fixed.  Jazaka Allah Khayr for pointing it out, akhi.

3-  Who said that quote? and Where?

So what i was trying t say is that speed of a star will be too low for a jinn (logically i think so)

The universe is filled with matter, dark matter and other mysteries.  It is not empty nor void.  Just like our bodies can not survive the outside universe and we'd burst, the Jinns too can not last with certain matters if they get struck by them.  These are part of the mysteries of the unseen world. 

4-  Muslims reject the Hadiths if the Hadiths are proven to be against the Glorious Quran.  This is not about cherry picking.  The Glorious Quran is our measuring stick and standard that we judge everything and all texts by:

www.answering-christianity.com/was_muta_immoral.htm

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

[adilriaz123]

Asalam ul laykum brother, I just wanted to point out. A correction. Matter and anti-matter aren't pairs but opposites. It is Matter and Dark Matter that are pairs. Ever since the descovered of Dark matter scientists learnt that there is no empty space in universe.

[QuranSearchCom]

Asalam ul laykum brother, I just wanted to point out. A correction. Matter and anti-matter aren't pairs but opposites. It is Matter and Dark Matter that are pairs. Ever since the descovered of Dark matter scientists learnt that there is no empty space in universe.

Wa Alaikum As'salam dear brother Adil,

I fixed it above.  Jazaka Allah Khayr akhi.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

[Mohmed Shahid]

1-  The Noble Verse does not say missiles.  This is not an accurate translation.  There are other more accurate ones:

www.answering-christianity.com/cgi-bin/quran/quran_search1.cgi?search_text=67%3A5&B1=Search

so far the translations which i have seen for the word رُجُومًا is missiles,throwing and lapidation

which ever meaning you apply to this aayah still my question stands.
WHY RADIATION RATHER THAN STARS ??

in the link which u sent above. i saw some words which claim to be the meaning of this word رُجُومًا they are bombard,darted,pelt
but when i referred the arabic words for the words are given below


1. BOMBARD- قصف (qasf)

verb
قصف
shell, bombard, revel, romp, cannon, peal
قنبل
bombard
مطر بوابل من
bombard
قذف قنبلة
bombard

2. DARTED- اندفعت (aindafaeat)
verb
رشق
dart, pelt, hurl, dart in, tilt
نقض
veto, break, repeal, rescind, swoop, countermand


3. PELT- قذف (qadhaf)
verb
قذف
fling, throw, libel, extrude, eject, pelt
رشق
dart, pelt, hurl, dart in, tilt
سرع
speed, quicken, accelerate, fast, speed up, pelt
جرى بسرعة
scoot, pelt
ضرب بغير إنقطاع
pelt, trounce
إنطلق بسرعة وعزم
pelt
noun
جلد الحيوان
hide, pelt
فرو
fur, pelage, pelt
ضربة
blow, strike, beating, stroke, shot, pelt

I COULDNT UNDERSTAND HOW THEY USED THESE WORDS FOR THE WORD رُجُومًا. HOPE YOU WILL EXPLAIN IN DETAIL.

the word by word translation of the ayah 67:5 is given below from the link : http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=67&verse=5

(67:5:1)
walaqad
And certainly      REM – prefixed resumption particle
EMPH – emphatic prefix lām
CERT – particle of certainty
الواو استئنافية
اللام لام التوكيد
حرف تحقيق

(67:5:2)
zayyannā
We have beautified      V – 1st person plural (form II) perfect verb
PRON – subject pronoun → Allah
فعل ماض و«نا» ضمير متصل في محل رفع فاعل

(67:5:3)
l-samāa
the heaven      N – accusative feminine noun
اسم منصوب

(67:5:4)
l-dun'yā
nearest      ADJ – accusative feminine singular adjective
صفة منصوبة

(67:5:5)
bimaṣābīḥa
with lamps,      P – prefixed preposition bi
N – genitive masculine plural noun → Lamp
جار ومجرور

(67:5:6)
wajaʿalnāhā
and We have made them      CONJ – prefixed conjunction wa (and)
V – 1st person plural perfect verb
PRON – subject pronoun → Allah
PRON – 3rd person feminine singular object pronoun
الواو عاطفة
فعل ماض و«نا» ضمير متصل في محل رفع فاعل و«ها» ضمير متصل في محل نصب مفعول به

(67:5:7)
rujūman
(as) missiles      N – accusative masculine indefinite noun
اسم منصوب

(67:5:8)
lilshayāṭīni
for the devils,      P – prefixed preposition lām
PN – genitive masculine plural proper noun → Satan
جار ومجرور

(67:5:9)
wa-aʿtadnā
and We have prepared      CONJ – prefixed conjunction wa (and)
V – 1st person plural (form IV) perfect verb
PRON – subject pronoun → Allah
الواو عاطفة
فعل ماض و«نا» ضمير متصل في محل رفع فاعل

(67:5:10)
lahum
for them      P – prefixed preposition lām
PRON – 3rd person masculine plural personal pronoun
جار ومجرور

(67:5:11)
ʿadhāba
punishment      N – accusative masculine noun
اسم منصوب

(67:5:12)
l-saʿīri
(of) the Blaze.   

EVEN IN THIS TRANSLATION IT SAYS MISSILES. SO MY QUESTION IS WHY RADIATION RATHER THAN STARS ??

3-  Who said that quote? and Where?

BELOW IS THE LINK AND THE POINTS HE MENTIONED.

http://www.answering-christianity.com/shooting_stars_miracle.htm

"Answer #2 (by brother Mclinkin94):

I just wanted to add some other things to brother Osama's answer. Brother Osama has said that stars do emit radiation hence allowing the stars to be used as missiles.

The stars themselves could also be used as missiles. Stars actually move at relativistic speeds, if you move considerably slower than them, to you they would be going fast. Remember that time is relative. So if stars move faster than you, then they could be used as missiles.

"Do you know what else we have discovered? We have discovered that our universe is not slowing down in its expansion, but it is accelerating! Think about that, could stars then not be used as missiles if they are going THAT fast along with the universe.

Our own sun goes at 220 km/s. That's pretty fast if you ask me: Especially If I was moving at a slower speed next to that star. Not only would the star's immense gravity pull me towards it, but it would be coming at me at 220 km/s!  And if I get close enough, I would get incinerated.

 

4-  Muslims reject the Hadiths if the Hadiths are proven to be against the Glorious Quran.  This is not about cherry picking.  The Glorious Quran is our measuring stick and standard that we judge everything and all texts by:

www.answering-christianity.com/was_muta_immoral.htm

WHAT I MEANT IS THEN HOW COULD WE USE COMPILATION OF HADITHS AS A BOOK FOR GUIDANCE WHEN IT EVEN HAS ERRORS. WHAT IF THERE ARE FALSE HADITHS WHICH NEVER CONTRADICTED THE QURAN.

WHAT IF THE WHOLE COMPILATION IS CORRUPTED OR NOT THE WORDS OF PROPHET BUT WE HAVE IT JUST BECAUSE IT NEVER CONTRADICTED THE QURAN ?
(its not just want to know what your answer will be.)


HOPE YOU WILL REPLY AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. 

[Mohmed Shahid]

assalamu alaikum brother OSAMA ABDALLAH.. waiting for ur reply to my above reply 

[Mohmed Shahid]

couldnt get a reply so far to my above comments.. especially from our admin osama abdallah.. messaged u a lot. dont know what happened. still hoping to get ur reply 

[QuranSearchCom]

Brother, Allah Almighty is using an earthly term to describe something that happens in the unseen world.  It's like when Allah Almighty talks about His Hands.  They're not like ours.  But this is a term Allah Almighty used to speak to us.

RUJOOMA does not mean missiles.  SAWAREEKH means missiles.  And missiles did not exist back then anyway.

As to Hadiths, what disagrees with the Glorious Quran gets discarded.  Many hadiths are fabricated or paraphrased, because they were written 300 years after the Prophet, peace be upon him.  Please visit:

www.answering-christianity.com/warning.htm

I hope his helps, insha'Allah.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

[Mohmed Shahid]

Brother, Allah Almighty is using an earthly term to describe something that happens in the unseen world.  It's like when Allah Almighty talks about His Hands.  They're not like ours.  But this is a term Allah Almighty used to speak to us.
www.answering-christianity.com/warning.htm

i agree with ur point. its normal to use an earthy term like
leech like substance  for     embryo and
planets swimming     for     orbiting and revolving.

even if stonning or other earthly term is used for tha ayah. still i feel it contradicting because quran says stars(lamps) are stoned at devils while ur article says radiation from pulsars(a type of star) is made to radiated(stoned) at devils

i feel both points contradicting.



i just compared some of the verses and came to know that the word مَصَابِيحَ in verse 67:5 refers to some type or stage of a star


i just compared like this

"15.Do you not consider how Allah has created seven heavens in layers
16.And made the moon therein a [reflected] light and made the sun a burning lamp?"[Surah 71:15-16]

"And He completed them as seven heavens within two days and inspired in each heaven its command. And We adorned the nearest heaven with lamps and as protection. That is the determination of the Exalted in Might, the Knowing."[Surah 41:12]

"And constructed above you seven strong [heavens]
And made [therein] a burning lamp"[Surah 78:12,13]

in both verses 71:16 and 78:13 the word lamp is translated for arabic word سِرَاجًا while the word lamp from verse 41:12 is translated for arabic word مَصَابِيحَ . So when we compare the ayaths
we can see that all the three verses starts by referring the seven heavens and then says about the stars created referred as lamps.

so the lamp has to refer either star or some type or stage of a star.

next lets compare it with the verse 67:5

"And He completed them as seven heavens within two days and inspired in each heaven its command. And We adorned the nearest heaven with lamps and as protection. That is the determination of the Exalted in Might, the Knowing."[Surah 41:12]

"And We have certainly beautified the nearest heaven with stars and have made them thrown at the devils and have prepared for them the punishment of the Blaze."[Surah 67-5]
 
by comparing we could understand that both verses mentioned lamps as adornment and made as protection by stoning devils


from verse 41:12 (given above) we came to know that the arabic word مَصَابِيحَ referred some sort of a star.

hence the arabic word مَصَابِيحَ from verse 67:5 also has to refer some sort of a star.


even its given in ur article its mentioned that they referred to pulsars(a type of neutron stars)


but my doubt is that the verse 67:5 says that stars are made to stone at devils while ur article says only radiation from stars are made like stoned at devils. i feel ur points are contradicting.

As to Hadiths, what disagrees with the Glorious Quran gets discarded.  Many hadiths are fabricated or paraphrased, because they were written 300 years after the Prophet, peace be upon him.  Please visit:
www.answering-christianity.com/warning.htm

there is nothing wrong in dicarting a hadith if it is against quran.
my question is what if we are using false hadiths for made in a way which fits with the quran.

[Mohmed Shahid]

brother osama abdallah. if u read my doubt plz reply as soon as possible 

[adilriaz123]

asalam ul laykum brothers, we are sure that that verse is talking about solar eruptions and their solar bursts of energies correct?