Author Topic: A Conversation I had with a Muslim convert regarding the crucifixion lie.  (Read 53094 times)

0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Dawud

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
for me most logical explanation how all happened during crucifixion

from gospel of barnabas

215: Divine Rescue of Jesus
When the soldiers with Judas drew near to the place where Jesus was, Jesus heard the approach of many people, wherefore in fear he withdrew into the house. And the eleven were sleeping. Then God, seeing the danger of his servant, commanded Gabriel;, Michael;, Rafael;, and Uriel, his ministers, to take Jesus out of the world. The holy angels came and took Jesus out by the window that looks toward the South;. They bare him and placed him in the third heaven in the company of angels blessing God for evermore.

216: Judas Transformed
Judas entered impetuously before all into the chamber whence Jesus had been taken up. And the disciples were sleeping. Whereupon the wonderful God acted wonderfully, insomuch that Judas was so changed in speech and in face to be like Jesus that we believed him to be Jesus. And he, having awakened us, was seeking where the Master was. Whereupon we marvelled, and answered: 'You, Lord, are our master; have you now forgotten us?'

And he, smiling, said: 'Now are you foolish, that know not me to be Judas Iscariot!' And as he was saying this the soldiery entered, and laid their hands upon Judas, because he was in every way like to Jesus. We having heard Judas' saying, and seeing the multitude of soldiers, fled as beside ourselves. And John, who was wrapped in a linen cloth, awoke and fled, and when a soldier seized him by the linen cloth he left the linen cloth and fled naked. For God heard the prayer of Jesus, and saved the eleven from evil.


217: Judas was Crucified
The soldiers took Judas ;and bound him, not without derision. For he truthfully denied that he was Jesus; and the soldiers, mocking him, said: 'Sir, fear not, for we are come to make you king of Israel, and we have bound you because we know that you do refuse the kingdom.' Judas answered: 'Now have you lost your senses! You are come to take Jesus of Nazareth;, with arms and lanterns as [against] a robber; and you have bound me that have guided you, to make me king!'
Then the soldiers lost their patience, and with blows and kicks they began to flout Judas, and they led him with fury into Jerusalem. John ;and Peter ;followed the soldiers afar off; and they affirmed to him who writes that they saw all the examination that was made of Judas by the high priest, and by the council of the Pharisees, who were assembled to put Jesus to death. Whereupon Judas spoke many words of madness, insomuch that every one was filled with laughter, believing that he was really Jesus, and that for fear of death he was feigning madness. Whereupon the scribes bound his eyes with a bandage, and mocking him said: 'Jesus, prophet of the Nazarenes ;(for so they called them who believed in Jesus), 'tell us, who was it that smote you?' And they buffeted him and spat in his face.

When it was morning there assembled the great council of scribes and elders of the people; and the high priest with the Pharisees sought false witness against Judas, believing him to be Jesus: and they found not that which they sought. And why say I that the chief priests believed Judas to be Jesus? No all the disciples, with him who writes, believed it; and more, the poor Virgin mother of Jesus, with his kinsfolk and friends, believed it, insomuch that the sorrow of every one was incredible.

As God lives, he who writes forgot all that Jesus had said: how that he should be taken up from the world, and that he should suffer in a third person, and that he should not die until near the end of the world. Wherefore he went with the mother of Jesus and with John to the cross. The high priest caused Judas ;to be brought before him bound, and asked him of his disciples and his doctrine. Whereupon Judas, as though beside himself, answered nothing to the point. The high priest then adjured him by the living God of Israel that he would tell him the truth.

Judas answered: 'I have told you that I am Judas Iscariot, who promised to give into your hands Jesus the Nazarene; and you, by what are I know not, are beside yourselves, for you will have it by every means that I am Jesus.' The high priest answered: 'O perverse seducer, you have deceived all Israel, beginning from Galilee ;even to Jerusalem here, with your doctrine and false miracles: and now think you to flee the merited punishment that befits you by feigning to be mad?

As God lives,' you shall not escape it!' And having said this he commanded his servants to smite him with buffetings and kicks, so that his understanding might come back into his head. The derision which he then suffered at the hands of the high priest's servants is past belief. For they zealously devised new inventions to give pleasure to the council. So they attired him as a juggler, and so treated him with hands and feet that it would have moved the very Canaanites to compassion if they had beheld that sight. But the chief priests and Pharisees and elders of the people had their hearts so exasperated against Jesus that, believing Judas to be really Jesus, they took delight in seeing him so treated.

Afterwards they led him bound to the governor, who secretly loved Jesus. Whereupon he, thinking that Judas was Jesus, made him enter into his chamber, and spoke to him, asking him for what cause the chief priests and the people had given him into his hands. Judas answered: 'If I tell you the truth, you will not believe me; for perhaps you are deceived as the (chief) priests and the Pharisees are deceived.'

The governor answered (thinking that he wished to speak concerning the Law): 'Now know you not that I am not a Jew? but the (chief) priests and the elders of your people have given you into my hand; wherefore tell us the truth, wherefore I may do what is just. For I have power to set you free and to put you to death.' Judas answered: 'Sir, believe me, if you put me to death, you shall do a great wrong, for you shall slay an innocent person; seeing that I am Judas ;Iscariot, and not Jesus, who is a magician, and by his are has so transformed me.'

When he heard this the governor marvelled greatly, so that he sought to set him at liberty. The governor therefore went out, and smiling said: 'In the one case, at least, this man is not worthy of death, but rather of compassion.' 'This man says,' said the governor, 'that he is not Jesus, but a certain Judas who guided the soldiery to take Jesus, and he says that Jesus the Galilean has by his are magic so transformed him. Wherefore, if this be true, it were a great wrong to kill him, seeing that he were innocent. But if he is Jesus and denies that he is, assuredly he has lost his understanding, and it were impious to slay a madman.'

Then the chief priests and elders of the people, with the scribes and Pharisees, cried out with shouts, saying: 'He is Jesus of Nazareth;, for we know him; for if he were not the malefactor we would not have given him into your hands. Nor is he mad; but rather malignant, for with this device he seeks to escape from our hands, and the sedition that he would stir up if he should escape would be worse than the former.' Pilate (of such was the governor's name), in order to rid himself of such a case, said: 'He is a Galilean, and Herod is king of Galilee: wherefore it pertains not to me to judge such a case, so take you him to Herod.'

Accordingly they led Judas to Herod, who of a long time had desired that Jesus should go to his house. But Jesus had never been willing to go to his house, because Herod was a Gentile, and adored the false and lying gods, living after the manner of the unclean Gentiles. Now when Judas had been led thither, Herod asked him of many things, to which Judas gave answers not to the purpose, denying that he was Jesus. Then Herod mocked him, with all his court, and caused him to be clad in white as the fools are clad;, and sent him back to Pilate, saying to him, 'Do not fail in justice to the people of Israel!' * And this Herod wrote, because the chief priests and scribes and the Pharisees had given him a good quantity of money. The governor having heard that this was so from a servant of Herod, in order that he also might gain some money, feigned that he desired to set Judas at liberty.

Whereupon he caused him to be scourged by his slaves, who were paid by the scribes to slay him under the scourges. But God, who had decreed the issue, reserved Judas for the cross, in order that he might suffer that horrible death to which he had sold another. He did not suffer Judas to die under the scourges, notwithstanding that the soldiers scourged him so grievously that his body rained blood. Thereupon, in mockery they clad him in an old purple garment;, saying: 'It is fitting to our new king to clothe him and crown him': so they gathered thorns and made a crown, like those of gold and precious stones which kings wear on their heads. And this crown of thorns they placed upon Judas' head, putting in his hand a reed for sceptre;, and they made him sit in a high place.

And the soldiers came before him, bowing down in mockery, saluting him as King of the Jews. And they held out their hands to receive gifts, such as new kings are accustomed to give; and receiving nothing they smote Judas, saying: 'Now, how are you crowned, foolish king, if you will not pay your soldiers and servants?' *The chief priests with the scribes and Pharisees, seeing that Judas died not by the scourges, and fearing lest Pilate should set him at liberty, made a gift of money to the governor, who having received it gave Judas to the scribes and Pharisees as guilty to death. Whereupon they condemned two robbers with him to the death of the cross.

So they led him to Mount Calvary, where they used to hang malefactors, and there they crucified him naked;, for the greater ignominy. *Judas truly did nothing else but cry out: 'God, why have you forsaken me, seeing the malefactor has escaped and I die unjustly?' *Truly I say that the voice, the face, and the person of Judas were so like to Jesus, that his disciples and believers entirely believed that he was Jesus; wherefore some departed from the doctrine of Jesus, believing that Jesus had been a false prophet, and that by art magic he had done the miracles which he did: for Jesus had said that he should not die till near the end of the world; for that at that time he should be taken away from the world.

But they that stood firm in the doctrine of Jesus were so encompassed with sorrow, seeing him die who was entirely like to Jesus, that they remembered not what Jesus had said. And so in company with the mother of Jesus they went to Mount Calvary, and were not only present at the death of Judas, weeping continually, but by means of Nicodemus and Joseph of Abarimathia; they obtained from the governor the body of Judas to bury it. Whereupon, they took him down from the cross with such weeping as assuredly no one would believe, and buried him in the new sepulchre of Joseph; having wrapped him up in an hundred pounds of precious ointments.


218: Body of Judas Stolen
Then returned each man to his house. He who writes, with John and James his brother, went with the mother of Jesus; to Nazareth.

Those disciples who did not fear God went by night [and] stole the body of Judas and hid it, spreading a report that Jesus was risen again; whence great confusion arose. The high priest then commanded, under pain of anathema;, that no one should talk of Jesus of Nazareth;. And so there arose a great persecution, and many were stoned and many beaten, and many banished from the land, because they could not hold their peace on such a matter.

The news reached Nazareth how that Jesus, their fellow citizen, having died on the cross was risen again. Whereupon, he that writes; prayed the mother of Jesus; that she would be pleased to leave off weeping, because her son was risen again. Hearing this, the Virgin Mary, weeping, said: 'Let us go to Jerusalem to find my son. I shall die content when I have seen him.'


219: Jesus appeareth to his mother and his disciples
The Virgin returned to Jerusalem with him who writes, and James and John, on that day on which the decree of the high priest went forth. Whereupon, the Virgin, who feared God, albeit she knew the decree of the high priest to be unjust, commanded those who dwelt with her to forget her son. Then how each one was affected! God who discerns the heart of men knows that between grief at the death of Judas whom we believed to be Jesus our master, and the desire to see him risen again, we, with the mother of Jesus, were consumed.
So the angels that were guardians of Mary ascended to the third heaven;, where Jesus was in the company of angels, and recounted all to him. Wherefore Jesus prayed God that he would give him power to see his mother and his disciples. Then the merciful God commanded his four favourite angels, who are Michael, Gabriel, Rafael;, and Uriel, to bear Jesus into his mother's house, and there keep watch over him for three days continually, suffering him only to be seen by them that believed in his doctrine.

Jesus came, surrounded with splendour, to the room where abode Mary the Virgin with her two sisters, and Martha and Mary Magdalen, and Lazarus, and him who writes, and John and James and Peter. Whereupon, through fear they fell as dead. And Jesus lifted up his mother and the others from the ground, saying: 'Fear not, for I am Jesus; and weep not, for I am alive and not dead.' They remained every one for a long time beside himself at the presence of Jesus, for they altogether believed that Jesus was dead. Then the Virgin, weeping, said: 'Tell me, my son, wherefore God, having given you power to raise the dead. suffered you to die, to the shame of your kinsfolk and friends, and to the shame of your doctrine? For every one that loves you has been as dead.'


220: Jesus and the Four Angels
Jesus replied, embracing his mother: 'Believe me, mother, for truly I say to you that I have not been dead at all; for God has reserved me till near the end of the world.' And having said this he prayed the four angels that they would manifest themselves, and give testimony how the matter had passed.

Thereupon the angels manifested themselves like four shining suns, insomuch that through fear every one again fell down as dead. Then Jesus gave four linen cloths to the angels that they might cover themselves, in order that they might be seen and heard to speak by his mother and her companions. And having lifted up each one, he comforted them, saying: 'These are the ministers of God: Gabriel, who announces God's secrets; Michael, who fights against God's enemies; Rafael, who receives the souls of them that die; and Uriel, who will call every one to the judgment of God at the last day. Then the four angels narrated to the Virgin how God had sent for Jesus, and had transformed Judas, that he might suffer the punishment to which he had sold another.

Then said he who writes: 'O Master, is it lawful for me to question you now, as it was lawful for me when you dwelt with us?' Jesus answered: 'Ask what you please, Barnabas, and I will answer you.' Then said he who writes: 'O Master, seeing that God is merciful, wherefore has he so tormented us, making us to believe that you were dead? and your mother has so wept for you that she has been near to death; and you, who are an holy one of God, on you has God suffered to fall the calumny that you were slain amongst robbers ;on the Mount Calvary?'

Jesus answered: 'Believe me, Barnabas, that every sin, however small it be, God punishes with great punishment, seeing that God is offended at sin. Wherefore, since my mother and my faithful disciples that were with me loved me a little with earthly love, the righteous God has willed to punish this love with the present grief, in order that it may not be punished in the flames of hell.

And though I have been innocent in the world, since men have called me "God," and "Son of God," God, in order that I be not mocked of the demons on the day of judgment, has willed that I be mocked of men in this world by the death of Judas;, making all men to believe that I died upon the cross. And this mocking shall continue until the advent of Muhammad, the Messenger of God, who, when he shall come, shall reveal this deception to those who believe in God's Law. Having thus spoken, Jesus said: 'You are just, O Lord our God, because to you only belongs honour and glory without end.'


221: Jesus Chargeth Barnabas to Write
Jesus turned himself to him who writes, and said: "Barnabas, see that by all means you write my gospel concerning all that has happened through my dwelling in the world. And write in a similar manner that which has befallen Judas, in order that the faithful may be undeceived, and every one may believe the truth." Then answered he who writes: "I will do so, if God wills, O Master; but I do not know what happened to Judas, for I did not see it."

Jesus answered: "Here are John and Peter who saw everything, and they will tell you all that has passed." And then Jesus commanded us to call his faithful disciples [so] that they might see him. So James and John called together the seven disciples with Nicodemus and Joseph, and many others of the seventy-two, and they ate with Jesus.

The third day Jesus said: "Go to the Mount of Olives with my mother, for there I will ascend again to heaven, and you will see who shall bear me up." So they all went there except twenty-five of the seventy-two disciples, who for fear had fled to Damascus. And as they all stood in prayer, at midday Jesus came with a great multitude of angels who were praising God: and the splendour of his face made them greatly afraid and they fell with their faces to the ground. But Jesus lifted them up, comforting them, and saying: "Do not be afraid, I am your master."

And he reproved many who believed that he had died and risen again, saying: "Do you hold me and God for liars? I said to you that God has granted to me to live almost to the end of the world. Truly I say to you, I did not die; it was Judas the traitor. Beware, for Satan will make every effort to deceive you. Be my witnesses in Israel, and throughout the world, of all things that you have heard and seen."

And having said this, he prayed God for the salvation of the faithful, and the conversion of sinners and [then], his prayer ended, he embraced his mother, saying: "Peace be to you, my mother. Rest in God who created you and me." And having said this, he turned to his disciples, saying: "May God's grace and mercy be with you." Then before their eyes the four angels carried him up into heaven.


222: Jesus Carried Up to Heaven
After Jesus had departed, the disciples scattered through the different parts of Israel and of the world, and the truth, hated of Satan, was persecuted, as it always is, by falsehood. For certain evil men, pretending to be disciples, preached that Jesus died and rose not again. Others preached that he really died, but rose again. Others preached, and yet preach, that Jesus is the Son of God, among whom is Paul deceived. But we - as much as I have written - we preach to those that fear God, that they may be saved in the last day of God's Judgment. Amen.

END OF THE GOSPEL


Offline adilriaz123

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Asalam ul laykum brother Dawud, even though i agree that Gospel of Barnabas is very vivid and clear in the whole account of crucifixion. The problem i see is that it isn't accepted by the mainstream Christianity. Even if we point out evidence from it. The Christians won't accept on the premise that it isn't from the disciples. I believe what we need to do is look more into the gospels and see what else we can learn that clearly destroys the false belief of the crucifixion. for example we have many verses that pose direct challenge of validity of the crucifixion. Like the  (Deut. 24:16), (Luke 24;39), Matthew 27:16-17, Mark16:9-20(insertions), etc...

Since these can be found within the Mainstream gospel they present a much more of an evidence rather then a Gospel that the mainstream Christianity doesn't accept as their own work of their apostles.

jazakallah

Offline Dawud

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Asalam ul laykum brother Dawud, even though i agree that Gospel of Barnabas is very vivid and clear in the whole account of crucifixion. The problem i see is that it isn't accepted by the mainstream Christianity. Even if we point out evidence from it. The Christians won't accept on the premise that it isn't from the disciples. I believe what we need to do is look more into the gospels and see what else we can learn that clearly destroys the false belief of the crucifixion. for example we have many verses that pose direct challenge of validity of the crucifixion. Like the  (Deut. 24:16), (Luke 24;39), Matthew 27:16-17, Mark16:9-20(insertions), etc...

Since these can be found within the Mainstream gospel they present a much more of an evidence rather then a Gospel that the mainstream Christianity doesn't accept as their own work of their apostles.

jazakallah

alaikom salam, yes but, this text can only be used if a christian ask

what does it means, "it appeared for them so"

this text perfectly explains that part of the ayah in the Qur'an.

Offline fadi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: A Conversation I had with a Muslim convert regarding the crucifixion lie.
« Reply #33 on: January 23, 2022, 01:56:06 PM »
Dear Osama, Peace be upon you

Few years ago, we came to a disagreement that you believe that Jesus was put on the cross but did not die, while I said that another person was put on the cross. We also came to a disagreement that you said we can use the books of the Christians & Jews to obtain some info while I said that we are only allowed to use Quran. After I researched the Bible, I want to give you proof from the Bible that Jesus was not the person who was put on the cross. The Bible said: when they put Jesus on the cross, he cried and told God, why have you forsaken me? Jesus will never say this to God. This was the student who used to believe that Jesus is a liar and not the Messiah and he was serving God when he told the king of Jewish about his place.

•   Matthew 27:46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).

I hope this proves that Jesus was not the person who was put on the cross. It’s up to you to believe it or not.

Thanks for your time,

Offline QuranSearchCom

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Islam is the Divine Truth!
    • View Profile
Re: A Conversation I had with a Muslim convert regarding the crucifixion lie.
« Reply #34 on: January 23, 2022, 05:23:09 PM »
Wa Alaikum As'salam dear brother Fadi,

Jesus' hyperboles have turned sinful into lawful and lawful into sinful, which is a blasphemy against GOD.  Since pork was allowed and Jewish Sabbath broken, and polygamy forbidden and other examples of blasphemies, then christains certainly have a major theological problem.

The fact that Peter and team VS. Paul and team blasphemed each other, and argued about things such as whether christians are supposed to observe the sabbath or not, or must the Law's Moral Code be followed, or must meat be Kosher, and so on, - all AFTER JESUS' DEPARTURE, - proves that the NT is corrupt and Jesus' promise about the Holy Spirit will speak through their mouths is a lie:

www.answering-christianity.com/conflict.htm


Jesus being placed the Cross:

Having said this, I am leaving open the following which could have Muslims call me an apostate (a cheap title by brainless lunatics):

1-  Muhammad died from poison and his aorta was cut off via poison for speaking nonsense, which Allah Almighty has promised him this would be the exact punishment for him if he speaks falsehood, even via jokes.

2-  Jesus got the day lights beaten out of him before the cross and on the cross for being confusing and causing ample blasphemies, such as people thinking of him and his mother as GODs, and turning sinful laws into lawful and lawful laws into sinful:

www.answering-christianity.com/jesus_problematic_hyperboles.htm

Look at the Noble Verses about the servants raised to Honor (Ibaadin Mukramoon).  See Allah Almighty's statement about the punishment of those among them who went astray:

[021:026] And they say: "(God) Most Gracious has begotten offspring." Glory to Him! they are (but) servants raised to honour.
[021:027] They speak not before He speaks, and they act (in all things) by His Command (as Jesus in the NT also elaborated on).
[021:028] He knows what is before them, and what is behind them, and they offer no intercession except for those who are acceptable, and they stand in awe and reverence of His (Glory).
[021:029] If any of them should say, "I am a god besides Him", such a one We should reward with Hell: thus do We reward those who do wrong.


Jesus was an outside Being from the Ibaadin Mukramoon.  He wasn't just a mere Prophet with earthly father and mother.  He was more like Adam and Eve.  And we all know how Adam, Eve and Iblis (later became the cursed satan and the serpent) all horribly messed up!  And as for Jesus,  I don't know what he had said and done, but it seems that a great deal of blasphemous confusions (sinful and lawful switching) and excessive glory to him were forged.  I don't know how much he is guilty of all of these, but they could land him (Jesus) in Hell Fire.  Prophet Muhammad too, with the HAZAL and stupid jokes that he was making, could also find himself in Hell Fire:

www.answering-christianity.com/warning.htm

I am not saying they will both end up in Hell.  But I am also leaving the possibility open as Allah Almighty Himself warned both of them (Jesus in the past, and Muhammad directly and personally in the Quran):

[069:044] And if the apostle were to invent any sayings in Our name,
[069:045] We should certainly seize him by his right hand (making him powerless and weak),
[069:046] And We should certainly then cut off the artery of his heart:
[069:047] Nor could any of you withhold him (from Our wrath).


The Prophet was poisoned.  He lived and suffered for three years from this poison before he died.  He got very weak and powerless that he had to be carried from place to place, and he himself said that he feels that his aorta was being severed from the poison before his death.



Anyway, if Ishmael was put to the slaughter and was pulled out at the last second, and if Abraham was thrown into the fire, and Jonah was eaten by the whale, and Daniel thrown to the lions which were instantaneously made tame by Allah Almighty, then I have no problem with Jesus being put on the cross.  But while he was never killed by stabbing or slaughter, nor was killed by crucifixion, he probably got the day lights beaten out of him, which I would have no issues with at all.  On the contrary, I am sick and tired of the load blasphemies and lies and contradictions that I constantly keep discovering on him.

And Allah Almighty, MY ONE AND ONLY GOD, ALWAYS Knows best.

Anyway, I am building this and will publish in a few days, insha'Allah.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline fadi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Peace be upon you and all Muslims on earth,

I completely disagree with what you said in the previous post and I want to explain your errors.

You claimed that Prophet Mohamed invented lies about God and for this reason God poisoned him and made him suffer for 3 years before he died and cut off his artery, and you used verses (69:44-47) from Quran to prove your point.

If what you understood from Quran is true, why then does God say in Quran:

•   (53:2) Your companion [Muhammad] has not strayed, nor has he erred,

•   (53:3) Nor does he speak from [his own] inclination.

•   (53:4) It is not but a revelation revealed,

God said in the verse above that Mohamed never spoke of his own, and you claimed that he invented lies about God.

Then God testified about Mohamed in Quran that he was of great manner which means that he followed the commandments of God as He instructed him to do.

•   (68:4) And indeed, you are of a great moral character.

Regarding those who poisoned Prophet Mohamed, this was not a punishment from God because Mohamed invented lies about God, but this is because this is the will of God that EVERY Prophet will have enemies to abuse them because God wants to increase their punishment.

•   (6:112) And thus We have made for every prophet an enemy - devils from mankind and jinn, inspiring to one another decorative speech in delusion. But if your Lord had willed, they would not have done it, so leave them and that which they invent.

You said that Mohamed may enter hellfire because of what you claimed above. This is completely incorrect because God said in Quran that He forgave all present and future sins that Mohamed has done.

•   (48:1) Indeed We have given you victory, a clear victory.

•   (48:2) So that God forgives your past faults and future ones, and completes His favor to you, and guides you to a straight path,

I wish you and all Muslims Eid Mubarak,

Offline QuranSearchCom

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Islam is the Divine Truth!
    • View Profile
Peace be upon you and all Muslims on earth,

I completely disagree with what you said in the previous post and I want to explain your errors.

You claimed that Prophet Mohamed invented lies about God and for this reason God poisoned him and made him suffer for 3 years before he died and cut off his artery, and you used verses (69:44-47) from Quran to prove your point.

Wa Alaikum As'salam dear brother.  I said above it is a possibility, akhi.  I don't know if it happened or not.


If what you understood from Quran is true, why then does God say in Quran:

•   (53:2) Your companion [Muhammad] has not strayed, nor has he erred,

•   (53:3) Nor does he speak from [his own] inclination.

•   (53:4) It is not but a revelation revealed,

God said in the verse above that Mohamed never spoke of his own, and you claimed that he invented lies about God.

These Noble Verses are saying that the Glorious Quran is not invented by any human, and that it is genuinely from Allah Almighty.  That's all they're saying.  They're not saying that the Prophet can never invent any lie on his own.  As a human being, flesh and blood, dust and water, he can always end up sinning and even commit crimes.  Read David's story and the 99 sheeps parable.  David was a Prophet too, but he ended up committing adultery and murder.


Then God testified about Mohamed in Quran that he was of great manner which means that he followed the commandments of God as He instructed him to do.

•   (68:4) And indeed, you are of a great moral character.

And indeed he had a great character and indeed he was a great moral example.  But none of this mean that he could not possibly have invented lies on Allah Almighty.  Again, it is only a possibility.  I don't know if it happened or not.  I only pointed out the Noble Verses that seem to support this possibility.  Allah Almighty always knows best.



Regarding those who poisoned Prophet Mohamed, this was not a punishment from God because Mohamed invented lies about God, but this is because this is the will of God that EVERY Prophet will have enemies to abuse them because God wants to increase their punishment.

•   (6:112) And thus We have made for every prophet an enemy - devils from mankind and jinn, inspiring to one another decorative speech in delusion. But if your Lord had willed, they would not have done it, so leave them and that which they invent.

But you don't know that for sure, brother.



You said that Mohamed may enter hellfire because of what you claimed above. This is completely incorrect because God said in Quran that He forgave all present and future sins that Mohamed has done.

•   (48:1) Indeed We have given you victory, a clear victory.

•   (48:2) So that God forgives your past faults and future ones, and completes His favor to you, and guides you to a straight path,

I wish you and all Muslims Eid Mubarak,


True brother, but there are other Noble Verses that speak about those whose GOOD deeds get sunk down and end up counting for nothing after they've changed:

‏47:28 ذلك بانهم اتبعوا مااسخط الله وكرهوا رضوانه فاحبط اعمالهم

[047:028]  This because they followed that which called forth the Wrath of God, and they hated God's good pleasure; so He made their deeds of no effect.

‏25:23 وقدمنا الى ماعملوا من عمل فجعلناه هباء منثورا

[025:023]  And We shall turn to whatever deeds they did (in this life), and We shall make such deeds as floating dust scattered about.


Again, I don't know if Jesus and Muhammad and David and others are in Heaven or Hell.  if they've changed to evil, then the possibility of them going to Hell is high.  I simply do not know.  But you could not give one guarantee that a Prophet could not end up in Hell.  I've given ample proofs in my posts.  I can give a lot more, akhi.  It gets even more interesting when you read about the satanic verses in both the NT and Hadiths:

www.answering-christianity.com/satanic_verses.htm


Eid Mubarak to you and to your honorable family, insha'Allah.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline QuranSearchCom

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Islam is the Divine Truth!
    • View Profile
There is one Noble Verse that you could use that may seem to support your position:

‏33:56 ان الله وملائكته يصلون على النبي ياايها الذين امنوا صلوا عليه وسلموا تسليما

[033:056]  God and His angels send blessings on the Prophet: O ye that believe! Send ye blessings on him, and salute him with all respect.

So here you may say how can Prophet Muhammad be in Hell when we are Commanded till the Day of Judgment to send Peace and Salutations upon our beloved and blessed Prophet, peace of Allah Almighty be upon him.


Response:

Indeed Peace, Blessings and Mercy be upon our beloved and blessed Prophet and teacher and role model, Muhammad.  Ameen.  If he makes it to Heaven, then all the blessings and salutations be upon him.  But the Noble Verse above doesn't give any guarantee, because Allah Almighty also gives His Blessings upon the believers:

‏2:157 اولئك عليهم صلوات من ربهم ورحمة واولئك هم المهتدون

[002:157]  They are those on whom (Descend) blessings from God, and Mercy, and they are the ones that receive guidance.


Yet, there are Noble Verses that speak about those who go into apostasy after Belief.  So again, as a flesh and blood, dust and water, you are always at risk of dying in disbelief.  May Allah Almighty protect us all from straying and disbelief.  Ameen.


To the reader, please visit the following links to see the Glorious Quran's STUNNING Numerical and Scientific Miracles and Prophecies:

www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#links
www.answering-christianity.com/ac3.htm#links
www.answering-christianity.com/ac3.htm#prophecies
www.answering-christianity.com/sci_prophecy.htm



NEVER lose faith in Islam and the Holy Quran.  We do not worship humans.  We only worship Allah Almighty alone and none else.  All flesh and blood, dust and water humans will be judged by Allah Almighty.


Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline fadi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Salam Alaikom,

According to what you have said, because of the Prophet’s suffering when they poisoned him, he may enter hellfire. Does this mean that the martyrs who have been killed in the cause of God may also enter hellfire because it’s simply God allowed them to be killed? Of course not!

•   Quran (3:169) And never think of those who have been killed in the cause of Allah as dead. Rather, they are alive with their Lord, receiving provision,

•   Quran (3:170) Rejoicing in what Allah has bestowed upon them of His bounty, and they receive good tidings about those [to be martyred] after them who have not yet joined them - that there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they grieve.

If God allowed the martyrs to be killed, it does not mean that they are wicked and for this reason God caused them to be killed and he did not grant them victory. It simply means that God loves them so much and He wants to reward them with a tremendous reward. This is the same case as the suffering of Prophet Mohamed. God wants to test the believers by causing them to suffer hardship.

•   Quran (2:214) Or do you think that you will enter Paradise while such [trial] has not yet come to you as came to those who passed on before you? They were touched by poverty and hardship and were shaken until [even their] messenger and those who believed with him said, "When is the help of Allah?" Unquestionably, the help of Allah is near.

Then God said again that He will test the believers with hardship and those who are patients and accept the will of God are the winners. Prophet Mohamed was very patient when they poisoned him.
 
•   Quran (2:155) And We will surely test you with something of fear and hunger and a loss of wealth and lives and fruits, but give good tidings to the patient,

•   Quran (2:156) Who, when disaster strikes them, say, "Indeed we belong to Allah, and indeed to Him we will return."

•   Quran (2:157) Those are the ones upon whom are blessings from their Lord and mercy. And it is those who are the [rightly] guided.

I sent you in the previous post a crystal clear verse to prove that God forgave the past and future sins of Prophet Mohamed, and you are still arguing that Prophet Mohamed may enter hellfire. It seems to me that you are unable to understand Quran. Please don’t reply and say that you said “MAYBE” because according to the verse, God guaranteed 100% that Prophet Mohamed will not enter hellfire.

•   Quran (48:2) So that God forgives your past faults and future ones, and completes His favor to you, and guides you to a straight path,

I just want to warn you and remind you of what the Prophet said:

•   Abu Hurayra reported that the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "Anyone who attributes words to me which I did not say should take his seat in the Fire. Anyone who gives his Muslim brother misguided advice when they consult him has betrayed them. If anyone gives a fatwa which is not firm, the wrong action of that rests on the one who gave the fatwa."

Please note that the reason I replied to your post is not that I want to argue, it's because Prophet Mohamed said: the one who is silent about the truth is a dumb devil.

Regards,

Offline QuranSearchCom

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Islam is the Divine Truth!
    • View Profile
As'salamu Alaikum akhi,

Quote
Abu Hurayra reported that the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "Anyone who attributes words to me which I did not say should take his seat in the Fire. Anyone who gives his Muslim brother misguided advice when they consult him has betrayed them. If anyone gives a fatwa which is not firm, the wrong action of that rests on the one who gave the fatwa."


Only to a Muslim?  We're not racists and hateful akhi.  What happened to the Glorious Quran's Command that prohibits Muslims to be a trial or evil or bad influence to anyone, including disbelievers:

www.answering-christianity.com/tempting_disbelievers_is_forbidden.htm

[060:005] `Our Lord, make us not a trial (فتنة) for those who disbelieve, and forgive us, our Lord; for, Thou alone art Mighty, the Wise.'


This hadith makes it sound like Islam is like the Jews' Talmud; full of racism and hate, and has total disregard to disbelievers and to being an upright human being.  Yes actually, believe it or not, Allah Almighty commanded all Muslims to be upright and to be great examples to all humans, not just to Muslims:

www.answering-christianity.com/quran_moral_code.htm


Brother, the Glorious Quran gave specific warnings to Prophet Muhammad.  Prophet Muhammad, for being a Prophet, was put on a strict warning watch.  I don't know why Allah Almighty did this, but that's in the Glorious Quran as I detailed it above.  The criteria of this warning from cutting of the Aorta, to the Prophet getting so weak (from being poisoned and getting so weak that he had to be carried around) is in the Quran's Warning.


Personally, I don't care if the Prophet is guilty or not.  At the end of the day, the Glorious Quran is proven to be Allah Almighty's Divine Truth, and that's ALLLLLL I care about.  Period.  I worship no flesh and blood, dust and water, poop and urine humans akhi.

At the worst case, we still have a Quran Warning that became a Quran Fulfilled Prophecy; proving that the Quran is Divine and Miraculous and is from Allah Almighty.



Quote
Abu Hurayra reported that the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "Anyone who attributes words to me which I did not say should take his seat in the Fire. Anyone who gives his Muslim brother misguided advice when they consult him has betrayed them. If anyone gives a fatwa which is not firm, the wrong action of that rests on the one who gave the fatwa."

Give this advise to your traditions writers who have on the Prophet:

1-  The satanic verses:  www.answering-christianity.com/satanic_verses.htm

2-  He got bewitched, when the Quran say he never got bewitched.

3-  He tried to commit suicide.

4-  His wife Aisha turned his house after he died into a prostitution house by having her sisters get sucked by men so she can become their aunt in faith, so she can nullify the "mother in faith" or "mother of the believers" title and be allowed to bring men into her home and be alone with them.  This is clear blasphemy from Aisha and a war on GOD's Command that commanded the Prophet's wives to not talk to men except behind cover that separates them.  This aunt of the believers and uncle of the believers dog poop that hypocrites and frauds have invented is all war on GOD!

For ample more, please visit:

www.answering-christianity.com/warning.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/ac3.htm#links



You know, for the satanic verses and the Prophet bowing to hubal idol, it's funny how we teach our children things like:

1-  Who is the first Muslim woman in Islam?  Khadijah.
2-  Who is the first teenager to embrace Islam?  Ali.

Well, here is my question to you:

Who is the first apostate in Islam?  Muhammad!  According to writings that were written 100s of years after the Prophet's death.



To the reader I say again, please visit the following links to see the Glorious Quran's STUNNING Numerical and Scientific Miracles and Prophecies:

www.answering-christianity.com/sci_prophecy.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#links
www.answering-christianity.com/ac3.htm#links
www.answering-christianity.com/ac3.htm#prophecies



NEVER lose faith in Islam and the Holy Quran.  We do not worship humans.  We only worship Allah Almighty alone and none else.  All flesh and blood, dust and water humans will be judged by Allah Almighty.


Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline fadi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Salam Alikom,

This verse will prove that your argument is completely wrong. God acknowledged in Quran that He will grant Mohamed a tremendous uninterrupted reward. This means that there is no hellfire for Mohamed.

•   Quran (68:3) And indeed, for you is a reward uninterrupted.

As what you wrote about Aisha, this was written by the enemies of Islam, and not by Muslims.

Offline QuranSearchCom

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Islam is the Divine Truth!
    • View Profile
As long as he remains and dies genuine, then he will get the promised rewards in Heaven.

If he dies a disingenuous, then he will get the torture of Hell that he also was promised.



Also, read Jesus' Bray vs. Pray oxymoron to get more proof at:  www.answering-christianity.com/jesus_problematic_hyperboles.htm


Wa Alaikum As'salam.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

 

What's new | A-Z | Discuss & Blog | Youtube