Answering Christianity Research Center

Was your original postulation a hypothetical reality in which we all would be simultaneously co-existing in? Because I'm speaking of a specific theoretical scenario of which would apply to only an individual mind.

I am sorry for the late reply. Well, the brain in a vat thought experiment implies that either all or a few humans could have had their brains removed by an evil scientist & plugged in to a super computer while the brains. That super computer would provide them with impulses that an embodied mind generally receives deluding those beings in to believing that the world it exists in is the real one. That being would have a body, but that body isn't physical, it's virtual. It's argued that such a being would have no method to figure out that it was being tricked.

Unfortunately, this experiment fails to take humoral signals in to account. Those signals are the ones carried by the blood stream. In order to ensure that the brain experiences life exactly as an embodied being, the diabolical controller would have to provide it with a circulatory, respiratory, excretory system, etc. Remember that adequate blood supply for instance is crucial for the brain & is often referred to as functional hyperemia. Basically, this necessitates a need for a body, the body would have to be functionally coupled with the brain itself so that it regulates & is regulated by the nervous system itself. This surrogate body does not have to be organic but it needs to be as complex as an organic body no matter how simplified it turns out to be. Things like respiration for instance have to be under the control of the conscious mind even in the surrogate body.

The provision of this surrogate body implies that this experiment to delude that being would fail.

I just wanted to conclude for letting everyone know that dispelling the brain in a vat argument is simple. The answer lies in the origin of sensation. The brain is able to identify the origin of different sensations including pain. The brain in a vat would realize that feelings of pain do not originate from its visible body similar to soldiers being trained on virtual reality. It is impossible to make that brain feel that the source of sensation comes from the visual virtual body.

I think that finally puts this argument to rest, & I want to thank those that participated in this debate with me. I shall take part in discussing other topics on this forum soon Insha Allah.

Any new information anyone?

It seems as though your crisis of religion has been solved.

How can it be achieved? Psychotropic drugs, virtual reality, mind control, or whatever sci-fi method you like.

They can transplant arms from a cadaver and have them fully functional.

There are simple tricks you can do to people to make them think something is occurring when it is not. Like rubbing their hand, while they are looking at a fake hand being rubbed, then stab the fake hand type stuff. There's augmented reality. You can mess with a person's equilibrium, sensory perception, whatever.

I'm still not sure of what you want here, it seems like you are against believing in this, yet say it makes you question your faith?

Are you trolling?

Oh, also, people who are quadriplegic and can only move their head, or in some cases only eyes, well they have been testing technology for a long time with good results of people being able to control their environment with such limitations. The next logical step would be to have they, themselves believe it was real. This is where the drugs come into it.

I am not trolling, this idea really did affect my religious beliefs. However, I am much better now thank God. This was a good post, & you did bring up some interesting points. However, things like augmented reality & the rubber hand trick require being embodied in the first place. I think reflex actions such as the one you described in the rubber hand trick make use of mirror neurons right?

The thing that really bothered me was if it was possible to directly stimulate the nerves to make a person feel a change in temperature or pressure etc. I was wondering if electrochemically stimulating the nerves could bring about the proprioceptive sense of your hand lying in a place it isn't? Because if that isn't possible, then the brain in a vat scenario certainly isn't, am I correct?

Quote from: confusedseeker

do you think it would ever be possible for humans to be able to stimulate nerves to the point of providing proprioceptive & kinesthetic feedback?

Yes. The science already exists, or at least the foundations of. It will be a long time before we see it actualized though.

I don't understand, in what sense would that be possible? Do you mean that we could use electrodes to delude the brain in to believing its hand lies in some place it isn't? The various sensory neurons connected to nerves such as pressure sensitive mechanoreceptors couldn't possibly be stimulated by electrodes. Basically, the nervous system & the brain itself seem to require an environment that mimics the human body to function. I might be wrong but I fail to see how provisions for such an environment could be made artificially.

Or are you referring to prosthetic devices some of which are being designed to detect variables like temperature, but they aren't able to communicate with the brain in the manner the arm or leg composed of living tissue does as far as I know that is.

Does anyone else have any interesting information to add?

So is there a logical refutation of this scenario?

I don't know what others were talking about, but is there anyway to disprove this hypothesis?