Answering Christianity Research Center

I'm not sure about the differences between shia , but let us look at the fundamental basics of Islam , the five pillars .

1 - To believe that there is no god except Allah and that Muhammad is his prophet
2 - To do prayer
3 - To do "Zaka"
4 - To fast Ramadan
5 - To do pilgrimage once during a person's life to whoever can .

The ones I know don't believe that Allah is the only god there is . They claim Ali may Allah be pleased of him is a god and has created everything , others say that Jibreel peace upon him - innocent he is from what they say - didn't do his duty and delivered the message to prophet Muhammad peace upon him instead of Ali .

This is the first and most basic pillar of Islam . When someone breaks it , we won't hesitate to say he's not a Muslim . That's aside from worship of the dead and accusing the companions of "kufr" and other things . Those who do so among shia are not in anyway Muslims as they don't believe in one God as we do .

Because I know the material of such sites and how their owners lack the most basic manners , because I know they can't spend few seconds without mentioning reproductive organs and terms of sexual intercourse , I won't bother with the link . I'll say it directly : Where in Quran does it say there is only one moon and one sun ? And please don't quote from the page without removing filth . Don't harm us with it . Unless they answer that question , this allegation , along with all the others , go to the nearest dump .

I also get turned off when I read nonsense of this kind:

"Imam Bukhari memorized 600,000 Hadiths" (Source)

"Imam Ahmed memorized 1,000,000 Hadiths" (Source)

I'd say this is just emotional ............. anyway , are you saying that just because you're "Turned off" by this it makes it wrong by default ? Ironically , I don't think you'd doubt the story of that guy who memorizes whatever he reads and recall it when needed . I just can't remember the link . If it's true and those two memorized the said numbers , what reason do you have to deem it a lie ?

This is the kind of nonsense that you would say for bedtime stories, or the kind of garbage that shias spew from them lala land fabricated riwayaat (narrations).  It has no value in the world of knowledge and objectivity.  It belongs to the garbage.

Seriously ?! And you talk to me about Fitnah and emotional attacks ?!

And yes, after Bukhari and his students carefully filtered out the 600,000 hadiths, they still couldn't avoid having in their final copy the false narrations about monkies stoning an adulteress she-monkey??  There is clearly a consipracy in the hadiths.

Just because they made mistakes doesn't mean there is a conspiracy . And with a quick search on Google - which apparently seems too difficult to some people - we find out that the story isn't told by the prophet but rather by a follower . That does have a meaning in the science of narrations .
http://www.burhanukum.com/article828.html

Then don't expect people to take you seriosly at all when you give in to any statement, akhi.  Again, in the market of knowledge and objectivity, these types of statements and beliefs don't have any value in them, and they end up hurting their own cause.

Hang on a minute . You have a person memorizing a certain number of narrations and chains and recording them proving that he did . Are you saying that this is a lie just because you think the number is too much ? Still I'll say this in advance , one day , you'll state that you believe something far more unbelievable than this , if I'm around at the time , I'll remind you . And by the way , when you talk about Arabians , the standards are completely different . They were people of language and poetry and none could rival them . That helped them develop excellent memory . Some could even remember a poem of 200 lines in one go and recall it later without a single mistake . If you don't believe it because people from your time and place can't , I also shouldn't believe that Jamaicans mostly win in track races because people where I come from don't .

Brother Black-Muslim, I ask that you look over the difference between constructive criticism and ad hominem.

First of all , I am not your brother . Call me an extremist or a terrorist or whatever you want . If we don't even agree on the fundamental basics , there is no brotherhood whatsoever . Let alone your unbelievable lack of manners when talking about Allah and his prophet .
So what if part of what I say is this ad whatever you keep sticking to ? Why not answer the argument itself ? Isn't that Ad hominem too ?

And, I won't be responding to any further posts with insults.

A nice excuse to not answer the core of the argument .

My 'pathetic' '1-2-3' argument stands. The Quran refers to people upholding baseless talks diverting others from the path of God and then when they hear the Quran they turn away arrogantly. I am showing you that this baseless talks the Quran is talking about is exactly like the hadiths. The Hadiths are scientifically and Quranically and historically baseless. Yet, you wish to force that heresy down our thoughts.

Do you understand a single word I say ? Have you no shame ?! For the 76575906 time , I won't let you take it as granted that Hadith is diverting from Islam . I won't let you take for granted that they are corrupted . I won't let you take it for granted that the so called evolution of man is the way people were created .

Now as for the Quran being fit for all times, it is a requirement since the prophet Muhammad is the last prophet unto mankind and therefore the Quran is the last revelation to mankind. It must follow that the Quran be timeless, it doesn't mean the Quran changes, it means our understanding of the Quran would be improved.

Oh yes you ARE changing it . People through 1450 years follow the rule A , and you show up and say rule A doesn't exist . Hiding behind this excuse is worse than the sin itself .

Quran 21:33 And He it is Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. They float, each in an orbit.

7th century people believed this means that they float in an orbit around the Earth. 21st century people know that they just float in an orbit-they do!. Notice the preciseness of the Quran and how it supported both beliefs simultaneously without contradicting either. . This is what we mean that the Quran refers to all times and places.

A false example . Quran didn't mention anything about these heavenly bodies floating around anything . It let us discover it ourselves . So people believing so has nothing to do with it . It only said they flort in orbits . The so called "Improving our understanding" would be to know what they float around . The changing and altering of the meaning would be to say that they don't orbit anything . Quran may hold multiple meaning which don't contradict each other . But when you go to signs with no possible different meaning , or a sign explained by another one or Sunnah , then there is no way on Earth we'd let you explain them however you want . Quran won't change for you .

^That is it, the Quran is fully explained as a source of Law. Any additions are innovations.

Lie . When the prophet peace upon him teaches us about prayer then we're absolutely going to take his word as he never speaks of his own . Rather , it is a revelation revealed to him .

I know that, that's why I said it. What is so wrong with drawing in the prophet? Did the Quran say not to? It nothing more than a cultural nonsense. Allah is beyond this nonsense.

In Arabic , we have a term for this . It's called دياثة "Dayatha" . If you're cold blooded and don't see any problem in insolence , we are not . Keep the cultural thing to yourself .

I doubt Aisha reached puberty at 9 years old. This problem definately stems from hadtihs as the Quran says no such thing.

Have not I told you that you judge by your own personal liking ? What goes with your "flow" is reasonable and what doesn't is fabrication and corruption . Are you really going to embarrass yourself by going through this ? Because any medical source will tell you females reach puberty - in average - between 6 and 8 , let alone 9 . If you don't like it , then be mad at reality .

I am baffled that you would go to such lengths...

Why do you think we refer to hadiths as Hadiths? Because they are hadiths (Amusement of speech). Secondly this verse is exactly warning us about those who uphold these baseless saying to mislead others from the way of Allah. That is exactly what the 'sahih' hadiths do and are.

No, those who followed the actual sayings of the prophet and experienced it themselves will not have a humiliating punishment because they weren't following 'hadiths' and their hadiths most likely did not contradict the Quran. That is a different problem.

Secondly, you are assuming that scholars in the past have been following Hadiths in place of the Quran. That assumption itself comes from Hadiths! This information you got comes from hadiths. So this is circular reasoning on your part.

Allah has put this verse in their for a reason and the word that refers to the corrupted sayings of the prophet in modern types is hadith. You don't think we called them hadiths for a reason?

The argument can go like this if you didn't understand what I meant:

Premise 1: The Quran speaks of people who uphold baseless stories/amusement in speech to divert others from the path of God
Premise 2: Our 'sahih' hadiths are baseless stories/amusements in speech that do divert others from the path of God
Premise 3: Therefore this Quranic verse is referring to our hadiths

The only controversial premise is premise 2. In defense of premise 2, you have seen contradictions and corruptions in the sahih hadiths--you have seen them go against the Quranic teaching (in the example I showed in apostasy). So the conclusion follows from the premises.

Your issue is circular reasoning. The tafsirs use hadiths to interpret the Quran and you use that to say that I am wrong. That is the biggest no-no. I simply follow what that verse is saying through lexicons, word for word translations, and the context. Speaking of the context, look at the verse that comes right AFTER it.

Quran 31:7 And when our verses are recited to him, he turns away arrogantly as if he had not heard them, as if there was in his ears deafness. So give him tidings of a painful punishment.

I'm seeing a strong mirror to how the Quran says there is no punishment for apostasy and you rejecting those verses in favor of hadiths.

I also wanted to stress the absurdity of using hadiths or the past people's opinions to translate the Quran.

Quran 6:67 For every announcement there is a term, and you will come to know.
Quran 38:88 And you will surely know [the truth of] its information after a time."

If there is a term for every tiding and a period of time in which the Quranic definition will be understood, then how could 7th century people know exactly what the verses are saying if they didn't live in the future times where the verses will be understood?

Told you so , Ilir .
First of all and to show that you're completely shameless and don't have any kind of regret about lying , Hadith means "Talk" . That's what every person with common sense knows . If you don't believe that , you might believe Google translation :
https://translate.google.com.sa/?hl=ar&tab=wT#ar/en/%D8%AD%D8%AF%D9%8A%D8%AB
So the whole "Idle of speech" is something you forged to support your false claims having no shame . Either that , or you got an F in Arabic class you said you're taking .
Secondly , saying "Hadith misleads people from the path of God , so I must be right" needs proving itself . And you can never prove that . So don't take it as a given and think we'll ignore your ways in twisting the conversation to what you desire .
And when you say "Secondly, you are assuming that scholars in the past have been following Hadiths in place of the Quran." , that's a blunt lie and a cheap shot . We keep telling you over and over that Quran is the first source of revelation and Sunnah is the second . And Osama wonders why I'm mad with you ?!
Then you rant "Allah has put this verse in their for a reason and the word that refers to the corrupted sayings of the prophet in modern types is hadith. You don't think we called them hadiths for a reason?" . And I say , enough with your fantasies . You're trying to twist the very language itself for your advantage and I'm telling you you're failing .
As for that pathetic argument you're numbering 1 2 3 , I told you . We won't let you take it as a given .
When you say you follow Quran in a word to word translation , I begin to think politics need to learn how to bluntly lie from you . And once again , we won't let you take it as a given that you're "Following Quran" . You don't know the first thing about it . And if I ask you about any part of it , you'll prove your ignorance as you have proved it and keep proving it day in day out . One example is when you claimed saying "Peace upon him" is a human innovation .
As for the sign in Surah of Luqman , that would be 100% you . We say in such cases "He accuses me of his disease and slips away" .
As for your pathetic argument of "Quran is fit for all times" . You're having a serious problem here . Quran is the one fit for all times . Quran doesn't CHANGE to fit the desires of misguided people of those times . No person , scholar or not , will agree with your twisted explanations .

Nope, I say they followed the real teachings and you follow the corrupted version of those teachings.

And kids say Santa Claus exists . That doesn't prove them right by default .

Yes Allah Did. What you are implying is that Allah was contradicting himself in the Quran? No.

The Quran says that in the Prayers, it must involve a phase of standing, bowing and prostrating:

Standing:
You shall maintain the Salawaat and the Salat Al-Wusta, and stand devoutly before God." 2:238

Bowing and Prostrating:

"Muhammad-the messenger of God, and those with him are harsh and stern against the disbelievers, but kind and compassionate amongst themselves. You see them bowing and prostrating, as they seek God's blessings and approval" 48:29

" ...... Then once they have prostrated let them be positioned behind you and let another group, who have not yet observed the Salat, observe the Salat with you while remaining cautious and while holding on to their weapons." 4:102

That is it. The Quran is simple on what you have to do. Now to ask for the details on exactly what to do in praying, would be like the Jews asking God exactly how to slaugher the cow. Remember why Chapter 2 of the Quran is called the Baqarah? The story is that Allah comanded the Jews to sacrifice a cow to show their faith in Allah swt. However, rather than complying they kept delaying and procrastinating and asking more and more and more questions until finally Allah swt commanded them to sacrifice a specific strong, beautiful cow, where as before any cow would have sufficed.

Allah just wants you to recite the Quran, stand,bow and prostrate. The specifics don't matter, just do it!

Didn't I tell you Ilir ? Next time , you'll hear "Friday prayer is an innovation . There are only 3 prayers . You're dishonest !" . Your buddy here says we don't need to know how to pray . Just bowing and prostrating ! If that's not a serious issue then I don't know what it is .

To destroy Sunni/Shia/Sufi/other nonsense Islam. Yes. Exactly. Again, irrespective of what hadiths do to please your version of Islam, hadiths stand un-authorative and corrupted. IT doesn't matter what will happen we reject them, you must reasonably conclude that the rejection of hadiths is best.

I'm saying it straight out , the only corrupted thing here is your mentality . I say it always and will say it again , we won't let you have your way . We won't let you take it as a given . Your cowardice in running away from trying to prove anything you say is matchless . Don't expect it to go "Hadith is corrupted , I'm right , end of the story" . Wither it's you or any other individual trying to misguide people , there's always someone to expose you for who you are .

Sure sure , now everything I said will be ignored and the whole drama of "You're emotional" continues because it's "Fitnah" . While changing the basic fundamental essences of doctrine is a friendly chit chat .

Indeed , I thought you'd say such a thing . Getting angry with someone for ignoring what you say , but worse than that , insulting Allah and prophet Muhammad is a bad thing . However , apparently , the insults themselves are OK ! Saying that prophet Muhammad - And I ask the lord forgiveness for I'm just telling what's been said - faced "Demise" is OK ! And you talk about Fitnah and disorder ? And because you didn't , this guy here thinks he won and keeps repeating what I keep showing is wrong every single post .

If you have noticed in the Debate about evolution. The only reason why they rejected evolution is because they support Hadiths when the Quran is clear on the matter  ..Imagine how many people (atheists) have left Christianity because it rejects evolution. That was part of the reason why I left. Now just imagine Muslims present to them the truth that the Quran supports evolution....but, we don't because the hadiths contradict the Quran and we uphold the hadiths and use them (a collection of sayings collected by humans) in order to interpret a divine book. Shame on us. This verse also makes it clear that those who uphold baseless hadiths don't think they are diverting others from the path of God (notice the verse says "without knowledge"). This is the case with many Muslims, unfortunately.

So either he has some serious disorders or he just pretends not to understand . And the infinite stubbornness doesn't help with the case . If we're going to laugh it off and ignore such fundamental difference under the excuse of "We're all Muslims" then how can what's true be distinguished from what's false ?

The main problem with whoever reads a narration and then decides it's contradicting Quran is that they didn't bother think "Am I understanding this wrong ? Maybe I should look for an explanation" . Instead , they immediately take the easy way and say "Hadith is corrupted , end of the story" . You say that Hadith does contain error and that saying so doesn't label a person as a rejector . Where did he say that ? He says all of it is corrupted because of some fantasies he has like "The writers were all Persians , so Hadith must be corrupted" . And the statement that they are is false in itself . He's saying that ALL Hadith cannot be trusted . And trust me , such people are the ones who will later tell you that there are only 3 prayers per day , that the Friday prayer is forged "Bid'a" , and as we saw in the thread , saying "Peace upon him" to the prophet is a human innovation .

Wither it has "value" or not , you have a person rejecting Hadith and refusing to take it as a second revelation , what am I supposed to call that ?

As for not answering the problem , I didn't read it honestly at the time . Looking at it now , where on Earth is the so called problem ? The sign of Quran says that Allah has decorated the lowest heaven with "Masabeeh" and made them "Rujuum" for devils . There are different possible explanations for this which clearly none of you bothered read about :
http://library.islamweb.net/newlibrary/display_book.php?idfrom=3513&idto=3513&bk_no=48&ID=2978

And now , what's the problem in the narration ? Farhan lists it in :

They say from the above Hadith it's clear that Quran is talking about something seen directly from Earth. But we know that cosmic rays aren't seen from the Earth.

And I say : What on Earth do cosmic rays have to do with anything ? Among all the explanations I looked through , nothing talked about them . It either says that parts of the "Lamps" separate and hit the devils or that these lamps are places from which the devils are stoned with . Are you telling me you want to deem this narration wrong because it will contradict your personal interruption that the mentioned lamps are "Cosmic rays" ? Or am I missing something ? And here's an idea for you . If you can read Arabic , then you better go straight to the original source . That way you can spare us the misunderstanding and the whole "Hadith is corrupted" mania .

Actually , the word for disease is داء and it doesn't just mean that . It also means a flow . When someone dies he is clearly having a flaw so yeah I'd say it's correct if you take it literally .

I guess it's hopeless in the end . If someone insulted you , you'd be enraged if someone repeated the insult even if to testify . But when it comes to the prophet all peace upon him , it's ok !
Tell this dog that clouds are not harmed by his barks . Neither is the sun harmed by his spit as it will only return to his face . Also , tell him to start using his brain . All that washing made it blank like a sheet incapable of thinking for itself .

First of all o one who reads not his own book , you accuse the Christ peace upon him of a load of crimes from vulgar talk to killing . So don't think you're dealing with kindergarten children when you claim he was sinless according to your Bible . Any amateur can see that . And when it comes to the noblest of mankind peace upon him , he asks the lord almighty forgiveness , not because of sinning - you big fat liar - but to teach us and encourage us to do the same . Because in the end , no matter what we do , we never repay the debt to Allah our creator .

Secondly , saying "There are many claims on Muhammad (Peace upon him)" only makes you look more pathetic . I can also say "There are many claims about Bible , therefore you're wrong and I'm right" . But rather I actually prove to you with evidence the error of your ways . And I SWEAR to the lord that all these claims are either lies and don't exist in Islam or that you take something normal - and even pure - and then look at it with filthy eyes and impure souls , or maybe something else . Anyway , any argument at anytime will make you see the tree in your eye .

mohammad said these three pagans goddess are mediators from god when he stood in front of pagans, later when his followers were shocked and asked him he said After gabriel warns him that they were not mediator of god. He said satan put verses on my mouth . Is he a prophet ? who donot know whether ti si from god or not?"

A fabricated and forged story . Expected really . You're just one of those parrots who repeat what the missionaries say like a mindless idiot . But wait a minute , YOU dare talk about Satan possessing someone ?! Your own book says that Satan possessed your GOD ! Again , see the tree in your eye .

The method of creation is clear in the Quran. You are the one rejecting it.

Rant

Hadith is exactly that. This is not an acrobatic explanation. Do you define acrobatic explanations as reasonable explanations? I don't get how any of it is acrobatic. Are you saying that the Hadiths that you follow are not the same as the type of hadith the Quran is referring to? I disagree.  Why do you think they were named Hadiths?? My argument remains, the Quran is referring to what you are doing--diverting others from the path of God through using baseless hadiths.

Rant .

The Quran is a hadith, but it certainly isn't a baseless hadith. The hadiths you follow are baseless both logically (the way it is transmitted) and scientifically (how it contradicts science).

You can take your own opinion and throw it anywhere else . Bluffing holds no value .

The scientific method as well as reasoned logic is how I determine if something is factually absurd. Humans created in literal days at a certain day (friday) as your 'sahih' hadith (an oxymoron) implies is factually absurd. Dipping your fly on a drink again is not going to clean the drink nor do anything. Your faith in hadiths is blind--the worst kind. Science has ruled that out completely, there is not way those could be true. Simple as that.

I ask Allah to take away the sense of sight from you . You don't use it in the first place . More rant about how you follow science while it's innocent of you . You can spam all this baby complaining however you like and it doesn't change a thing . Just because you - a nobody - thinks creating father Adam - or even the entire human race - is impossible doesn't mean it is . Just because you're a coward who just ignored the link I provided about flies it doesn't mean it's wrong . Simple as that .

I'm still not compelled.

Then screw your opinion . We don't need it .

Just like the telephone game--have you ever played it? How often is the last speech the same as the first?

And I ask the lord to take away the sense of hearing from you . You don't seem to use it either .

Secondly, why don't we do an experiment--dip the fly in the drink once and measure the amount of pathogens. Then dip it again with the other wing and measure the amount of pathogens. What do you think will occur?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uxu-wKE9s1c
Minute 24 . If you still deny after this , you're completely hopeless .
http://www.eltwhed.com/vb/showthread.php?55209-%C7%E1%C7%DA%CC%C7%D2-%C7%E1%DA%E1%E3%ED-%DD%ED-%CD%CF%ED%CB-%C7%E1%D0%C8%C7%C8-%E6%C7%E1%D1%CF-%DA%E1%EC-%C7%E1%D3%DD%E1%C9-%C7%E1%D1%DA%C7%DA
By the way , the name of the thread is "The scientific miracle in flies and answering the lowly mobs" . Do you insist on having those characteristics said about you ?

Wow you really debunked me there.

The only thing you had was some ridiculous ideas and children talk . There was nothing to refute in the first place . And when you act like a kid , you'll be treated like a kid . Ironically , from what I heard , you're over 20 years old .

I don't appreciate how you reject evidence and call your hadiths perfect. IT si not a perfect science, it is an art that isn't even competent.

There's no evidence to begin with . You're just pathetically trying to force your way through saying "I'm smart and you're stupid" . And when you try to make "evidence" you end up only proving yourself wrong .

So you are saying that being impatient necessarily leads you to the wrong conclusion. That is logically incoherent. Does not invalidate my evidence, you must address the points. I do agree that perhaps some of my understanding and yours as well are impatient, I am willing to find the truth if good arguments are made. I haven't gotten those good arguments

You admit that you know 0 of anything you despise so much and then dare talk about it ?

LOL, The evidence for evolution (especially the genetic evidence) and the Quranic teaching is forged, but not the hadith..LOL

If you were in front of me , I'd have slapped you really . You dare make it look like I accuse Quran of being forged you ............. ? You know what , forget it .

Think about it. If the Quran was referring to Hadiths as being protected, then that would be a Quranic contradiction because hadiths are recognized to be unprotected. You have various contradictions between the Quran and Hadith. Between hadith and Hadith.

And some claim that Quran is corrupted and has contradictions , that doesn't help them .

This testimony which God describes as "Akbar Shahada" (the Greatest Testimony) commands Muhammad to testify that He received the Quran from God. This testimony speaks of only one revelation received by Muhammad from God which is the Quran. If Muhammad truly received other revelations from God (other than the Quran), would we not find any mention of it in the Quran? Would God hide the fact that He gave Muhammad a revelation independent of the Quran and then command us to obey it?

More rant and cowardice of addressing the answer to the same rusty point .

I don't think you know about logical fallacies. Why do I debate with someone who doesn't understand logical fallacies?

First of all , with this low level , I can't call it a debate . It's just exposing nonsense for what it is . And here I am wasting my time on some guy who doesn't know what he's talking about , contradicts his own words , brings evidence against him ans uses it as if it helps , and has a foul mouth while talking about the creator , Islam , and its prophet peace upon him .

Here is an example:

Narrated Ibn Abbas:
The last Verse (in the Quran) revealed to the Prophet was the Verse dealing with
usury (i.e. Riba). [Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60, #67]
 
Narrated Al-Bara:
 
and the last Verse that was revealed was: "They ask you for a legal verdict, Say:
Allah's directs (thus) about those who leave no descendants or ascendants as heirs."
(4.176) [Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60, #129]
The same is also mentioned in Sahih Muslim.

You embarrass yourself again because you lack even the tiniest shreds of knowledge about what you attack . Do you know what "A correct chain" means ? As the name says , it's a correct chain . Still , to who does the chain go in both of those ? They go to two different companions who said what they knew . It doesn't say "The prophet said" . Do you understand what that means or do I need to make it simpler ? OK then , simple it is . It means that the chain is absolutely correct in going to the two companions of the prophet . Here , the two have different opinions based on their knowledge . So therefore , one of them thought that the last sign to be revealed is a certain one but he didn't know that another was revealed after it . Still , the narration to the companion is correct .
So what now ? Is is a pillar of Islam to know what's the last sign revealed ?

Why didn't you address my argument again? Of course I am getting on your nerves, I am questioning your blatantly false beliefs.

What arguments ? are they also written with invisible ink ?

I think you know that I am right, but you are just unwilling to reject hadiths because they provide good explanations for you. You've said this before, "if we reject hadiths, then how do we account for...". this is again logically incoherent. It doesn't matter what hadiths explain, you cannot acccept them and remain reasonable. The Quran prohibits it and it is actually a Quranic prophesy. There will be people like you who uphold BASELESS hadiths and divert others from the path of God. Look at how clear that verse is and how accurate it is

Well I think you could be a bigoted Jewish man trying to corrupt the beliefs of Muslims . That doesn't change a thing . It doesn't matter to you if I bring a million book or dictionary proving you wrong . You'd still ignore it and keep floating in your lala world where you're a God who's always right and all else is wrong . Ignorance and arrogance are a deadly combination .

I call shiahs brother. I call Christians brother. I call athiests brother. Shias are just like you--misinformed and upholding baseless hadiths.

You say "my scholars are better than yours", "my hadiths are better than yours".

Why don't you listen to a Shia Scholar making a belief based on his false hadiths.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cfnr6I8B5wY

You are no better than him. Unfortunately, I agree with him. Based on the hadith fabrications about Aisha saying things about the prophet--Aisha appears to be a hypocrite. But I doubt that is the real Aisha and her sayings.

And on this one , I ask Allah to curse you along with that bastard accusing a mother of believers ! The more you talk the more I see how low a life form you are .
As for the rest , typical rant of you .

If Allah wanted us to follow something besides the Quran, He would have told us so. But he told us the complete opposite in the Quran.

"Obey the messenger" means to obey ONLY the message he came with. And the message that the prophet came with is nothing more than the Quran--as the Quran states. Why didn't it say that there would be other messages?

The only thing making me keep going with you is that I fear some commoners who know not might actually be fooled by you . Otherwise , I would have spared myself all this headache because of reading such nonsense time and time again .
No backing up of what you claim , so just like 90% of your posts , I'll ignore it .

WHy don't you answer. There IS meaning to it.

Didn't see you answering what I said before it .

What quotes are you referring to, I have answered everything? Bring anything that remains unanswered to my attention and I will happily reply.

Look here kiddo , I won't tire myself every damn time bringing you something I repeat almost every two posts . You have page in front of you , so get of your seat and work a little lazy head .

Firstly, it is referring to the people back then and is un-applicable to us. .

What evidence do you have that it isn't ?

But even if it was applicable to us, then it would would mean to get testimony from others AND reflecting upon them! Not just blindly accepting them...this is obvious. But too much for you to make that conclusion

What evidence do you have that it is ? Of course I don't say we should ask Jews and Christians - who corrupted their own books - about our noble Quran . I'm just using your logic here .

If you want, I could flood this blog with examples. Let me know.

So either you bring nothing at all or you "flood" the place with nonsense and lies . Yeah , typical .

The point is we cannot count on the people who wrote hadiths, because not all of them are perfect followers or understanders of the Quran. Do I seriously have to lay everything out for you like this? Please think for yourself.

The guy who believes in evolution because "scientists" said so dares tell me to think ? As for your point , who gives you the right talk about them saying they're misguided while you don't even know their names ? There is absolutely no logical or scriptural reason to say that the prophet didn't give teachings other than Quran . And if he did , then it is a necessity that they were preserved . And we don't wait for the approval of a nobody to work with those teachings .

YES! You have evidence of that through hadith contradictions. Do you know how they primarily determine whether a hadith is authentic, by looking at the line of transmission and determining whether they have good character? Think now; Couldn't the fabricator, also fabricate the Hadith line of transmission?

No they can't . I won't repeat . Either you abandon this massive ego and arrogance of yours to learn the first basics of hadith or there's no point . I don't have the time giving you a course of it because you're too lazy old man .

You failed to read my question in context. You are saying that you can trust hadiths because those who said it are followers of the Quran, Is say:

-Some aren't followers of the Quran
-Some are ignorant of parts the Quran
-Some are hypocrites

^this debunks your argument.

This only proves you as an ignorant yet more . First of all Mr.Amnesia , those "Some aren't followers of Quran" are the first to be not accepted in any chain . I said it in the last post . Secondly , oh ! And I suppose YOU know about Quran ?! The one who doesn't even understand what he reads ?! Thirdly , you aren't someone to say people are hypocrites so jump outta window if you're mad .

Are you saying that the Quran doesn't have things that would be understood in the future?

A low attempt . A 5 years old wouldn't understand that from my post .

Which hadith, other than this (Quran), do they uphold?" 77:50
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"These are God's revelations that we recite to you truthfully. In which hadith other than God and His revelations do they believe?" 45:6

Shall I seek other than God as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed?" 6:114

Truthful is Allah . Now really , on what planet do you live ? Quran is the first source of laws for us and it tells us to obey the messenger as nothing he says about Islam is out of revelation .

You have the burden of proof of saying why the Sunnah is also a revelation brought to us.

Look at what you quoted blind man .

Nah, I am simply presenting the reason why you admitted that you are unwilling to reject hadiths. It is because they provide vital historical explanations for you. But as we have just seen, they aren't very accurate.

That is one out of many ways to respond to you and clearly , you fail to address the point .

If WW1 was transmitted from speech like the telephone game and those speeches have contradictions, then you can say that the events at WW1 are questionable. That is my logic.

Come talk when you prove that these contradictions exist in other than your dreams .

Did you not get my point? I said that we shouldn't make excuses to believing something, it should be entirely on logic/reason/evidence/rationality/intellectual honesty.

Good , then you should abandon what you were brainwashed with .

Did I say that or did I say that you should analyze those journals and see the evidence for yourself? You must do it while remaining honest and faithful to yourself. There is so much evidence that posting it here would take years.

In short , all that "evidence" doesn't go out of one of these :
1 - Faking
2 - Forcing an evolutionary explanation on anything
3 - Brainwashing people by TV

Ignorance to such a degree! The only cure for this disease is knowledge. PLEASE get  yourself educated, it is not even worth my time to explain this. you have the world's knowledge at the tips of your fingers! The Quran encourages to seek knowledge, so follow that COMMANDMENT.

Hello , your "God" Darwin said so . And from what I see so far , they still believe so . Only a dysfunctional brain can say that creation is absurd while deers turning to giraffs is science . Oh , and here :
http://www.omniology.com/DINO-BIRD-FAIRY-TALE.jpg

Lots of emotional arguments here. So I will reject them. I operate on nothing more than logic and reason and rationality and intellectual honesty. If this is too much for you, then I apologize.

You accuse me of emotional arguments and you use one in the same freaking line ? Ironic .

I love Allah and I love the prophet Muhammad. NOT the hadith representation of them.

You don't like what doesn't match your selfish desires even if it was as clear as the sun in the middle of day . A foul mouthed manner-lacking man who insults Allah and his prophet dares say this ?

Further, I do admire saying "peace be upon him", but it is not a quranic concept. The Quran doesn't say "peace be upon him" when referring to a prophet, it is a human innovation--but a benign one. I don't reject it, I admire it---

A human innovation ?! I keep getting more assured that you don't read Quran .

Indeed, Allah confers blessing upon the Prophet, and His angels [ask Him to do so]. O you who have believed, ask [ Allah to confer] blessing upon him and ask [ Allah to grant him] peace.

So let's review :
1 - You claim that evolution is right . You claim that Quran and science prove it . I tell you that Quran and science are innocent of such a thing and that Sunnah also rejects it . You refuse Sunnah and claim that you can prove it from Quran alone . You bring signs and explain them however you like . You bring a page of Yahoo answers which proves you wrong along with a translation site doing the same . I keep repeating time and time out that you're wrong and show you why you're wrong and even have to go into the basic roots of words in Arabic . You call me unwilling and rant about it .
2 - You claim that Sunnah is corrupted and use a load of lies and personal opinions to prove it . I respond to them one by one . You call me unwilling and rant about it .

And considering how I wasted all that time of my days , the next time you return to post I'll either respond in brief - saving time - or not respond at all depending on what you write .

And no peace .