Answering Christianity Research Center

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We are not descendants of apes, we share a common ancestor with them

So instead of saying that apes are our ancestors , they are actually our cousins ? Yeah , much difference .

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The descendant nature is very gradual, it makes Allah an even more ingenious creator than we thought ever before. This mechanism of creation is absolutely breath-taking.

I'll say it flat out : This mechanism of evolution is 100% myth that isn't supported by other than hoaxes and lies . And it clearly goes against Islam which says that Allah created our father Adam - peace upon him - from mud by his hands in his current form ( The form of father Adam and not Allah . To make sure there is no misunderstanding ) .
And if you really don't agree with the meaning of these signs of Quran and the sayings of prophet Muhammad , would you try to build a false miracle upon a lie which is proven to be a lie day after day ? Nobody said there are no miracles in the noble Quran but trying to come up with one out of any and everything is just a farce .

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Further, we have extremely compelling evidence of evolution and it's never been proven wrong. In fact, all the evidence we have point to evolution. Currently, scientists are getting closer to finding living proof of Macro-evolution despite all of the evidence we have.
Denying evolution is an embarrassment to be honest. I studied evolution, and I would hesitate to call it a theory. Denying evolution would be like those Christians who believe the Earth is 6,000 years old and was literally created in 6 24 hour days. They are an embarrassment to the world. We do not want Islam to be an embarrassment ESPECIALLY if our own SCRIPTURE supports the idea of a gradual diverse process behind creation that involved descent from human-like creatures!

It seems that I was right . You're astonished with what the west has of advancement and therefore you don't want to defy them but at the same time you don't want to defy Islam so you try to gather between gold and sand . Tell you what ? Drop by here and I assure you that you'll be shocked to know that what they've been feeding you about evolution is but a huge lie .
http://www.eltwhed.com/vb/forum.php?
Just write "تطور" in the search box and choose any post . Or does it make you feel insecure ?

The mechanism of evolution is not a myth. Is there a piece of evidence that tells you it is a myth?

Allah says in the Quran he created Adam from an extract of clay and it says that Allah has done it with his hands. Does Allah have hands? Of course not! Its metaphoric. It means Allah has created man from his handiwork and he is comparing it to molding something with clay with hands. Something that has a process! A process of shaping us to get our form! Compare to what evolution explains! Evolution explains Allah's method of creation in accurate detail.

Now, what's even more interesting about that is that we actually believe that the first cell LITERALLY came from wet-earth (mud/clay). We say it is improbable the first cell came from the deep ocean because things are too dilute there to support life with the necessary molecules. So even science confirms the Quran here.

So yes, Allah has ultimately created mankind from clay. I will show you a series of verses to state my point:

Quran 32:7 Who perfected everything which He created and began the creation of man from clay.

^So Allah made everything he created better. This is hinting at a process of creation.

Quran 32:8 THEN He made his posterity out of the extract of a liquid disdained.

^AFTER creation from clay, our posterity comes from an extract of sperm. This is hinting at sexual reproduction forming.

Quran 32:9 THEN He proportioned him and breathed into him from His [created] soul and made for you hearing and vision and hearts; little are you grateful.

^AFTER sexual reproduction, we were proportioned into the right way and we have developed a higher consciousness (that's what the verse is implying).

Compare this to the idea that we came from lower forms of life. We were literally created from wet earth (clay), and then after a while sexual reproduction developed. And through the process of sexual reproduction, we were proportioned and given consciousness. The process of sexual reproduction creates even more variation and makes evolution even more successful.

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Is there any specific thing about evolution that you have a problem with? Its not a huge lie at all, what hoaxes do you speak about? How about my personal testimony that I have seen micro-evolution live and we are about to exhibit macro-evolution.

How about all of the:
1.) Fossil Evidence
2.) Genetic evidence
3.) Molecular evidence
4.) Evidence from proteins
5.) Vestigial and atavistic organs
6.) Embryology
7.) Biogeography
8.) Homology
9.) Bacteriology
10.) exhibitions of macro-evolution:

a. Two strains of fruit flies lost the ability to interbreed and produce fertile offspring in the lab over a 4-year span ... i.e. they became two new species. (Easily repeated experiment.)

b. A new plant species (a type of fireweed), created by a doubling of the chromosome count from the original stock (Mosquin, 1967).

c. Multiple species of the house mouse unique to the Faeroe Islands occurred within 250 years of introduction of a foundation species on the island.

d. Formation of 5 new species of cichlid fishes that have formed in a single lake within 4,000 years of introduction of a parent species.

^This is very strong evidence and we haven't even scratched the surface!



Brother please study the science, imagine just disregarding Allah's method of creation and what's said in the Quran? Imagine the insult to Allah. Allah encourages us to study. And many times in the Quran, shows us that mankind, which includes Adam was created from ALAQ. Allah is never short of words:

(Quran 96:1-2) Recite in the name of your Lord who created, Created man from a clinging substance

^Why is it that ALL scientific evidence and ALL verses in the Quran about creation, tend to point to the idea of creation through a process. But denying Allah's ingenious process is rather disturbing to me and very insulting to Allah.

Quote from: mclinkin94 on September 07, 2013, 01:51:48 AM

(Quran 6.133)  If He wills, he can do away with you and give succession after you to WHATEVER He wills, just as He produced you from the descendants of another people.

Note: The Quran specifically uses the word "Whatever" or "What" ("ma" in Arabic ما). This Arabic word "ma" cannot refer to humans; this word is strictly reserved for non-humans (the Arabic word that does refer to humans is "man من", meaning "who" or "whoever" but it was not used here).

1- The Arabic word "ما ma" can refer to humans , example:

Holy Quran 4:3  But if ye fear that ye cannot do justice between orphans, then marry what "مَا ma" seems good to you of women.

2- the Arabic word " قوم Qawm" which is translated as  "people,folk" in the verse ,is a strong clue that we are descendant of  humans , as the word "qawm" never used in Arabic as a reference to animals, or any non-humans.....   

 (MAA) points to (daab), placing emphasis on the character THAT is desirable in women.
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ما طاب لكم من النساء
The pronoun "MAA" precedes "Daab" which means "desirable" or "good" feature. It would be like saying: choose what you desire from other women. Since the verse speaks about men who may desire to marry orphaned women, it tries to shift this desire elsewhere to find it in among other women.

The key point here is the emphasis on the desirable character in women that motivates men to marry them, whether its their beauty, personality, money, or any other legitimate reason.

In Quran 4:3, The word "ma'' is not actually referring to a human. If it was it would have to use "ma" and then say "women" after it. Instead you find that "ma" is used in 2 instances in that verse, it is used before:

- "What Seems good to you OF women"
- "Of women, What Your right hands possess"

So you see "ma" Being used to emphasize a desirable character of the women rather than the women themselves!

If the Quran did not say "Of women" and uses 'ma', then that means the Quran is referring to something non-human. IN Quran 6:133, the Quran does not say of us, it says whatever. So it is referring to something non-human. Also if you read the context of Quran 6:133, it is referring to all of mankind. So he will give succession to whatever he wills, just as he produced ALL of mankind from the descendants of another people. if ALL of mankind descended from another people, then those other people CANNOT be human (Because all of the humans came from them). It seems to fit.

In English, whatever is also a proper usage of 'ma' in this Quran 4:3 sentence. I could say to marry whatever seems good to you OF the women. I could also say Marry whatever your right hands possess OF the women. This means I am not saying the women are a 'what', the 'what' is what my right hand possesses, it includes the women. But the verse made it clear that its about the women.

Contrast this to Quran 6:133, which says that Allah give succession to WHATEVER he chooses after us, and this thing he will give succession to is compared to as "other people". Who are these other people? Remember 6:133 is referring to ALL of mankind, so all of mankind succeeded after "other people". And the Quran referred to them as "what" rather than "who".

Now the Quran has referred to women in 4:3 as "what" rather than "who", but it was referring to what is good to us and what our right hands posses OF women rather than the women themselves. That marks a big difference from 6:133

The fact of the matter is that "ma" means "what", and "man" means "who". 'What' was used instead of 'who'. We must ask, why?

2- The Arabic word "Qawm" was used in Quran 47:38 to denote another people different from us. Also, 6:133 uses the word "other" there as well. So it is a strong indication to a people similar to us, but not like us. The definition of "other" is something similar. And it is used throughout the Quran to determine something similar but with a difference.

Not only that, verse 6:133 is addressing ALL of mankind (as verse 6:130) states. So that means ALL of mankind (including Adam) were the descendants of another people. Quran 47:38 gives us more detail and the following verses also explain that this new replacement of mankind is a new creation

(Quran 4:133) If it were His will, He could do away with you, o mankind, and create another race; for He hath power this to do.
(Quran 35:16) If He wills, He can do away with you and bring forth a new creation.


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So in summary, Quran 6:133 supports the idea that mankind were the descendants of a different people:

1.) The context of the verse shows that it is referring to ALL of mankind, and it says that ALL of mankind descended from another people, if Adam was the first human like us, then by default the other people are not like Adam
2.) It uses the word "ma" instead of "min" ("whatever" instead of "whoever") signifying they are non-human
3.)  This verse mirrors Quran 35:16 as they BOTH refer to doing away with us (yudh'hib'kum) and replacing us with another people, verse 35:16 is more specific to us that they (other people) are  a new different creation
4.) Another hint at the "other people" not being like us is verse 47:38, which clearly shows they won't be like us. Further, Quran 76:28 makes it clear that Allah intends on changing the forms of the people (because it describes form changing).

In the end, I think this is overwhelming evidence of the Quranic support on the idea that mankind descended from another being and that a new being may be formed after mankind as well if we disobey, and mankind in its current state will be eradicated to leave a new version of us that are BETTER.

I hope you understand my position. I also wanted to re-state one more verse to make it completely clear that Adam was a descendant from someone:

Quran 3:33-34: "Indeed, Allah chose Adam and Noah and the family of Abraham and the family of 'Imran over the worlds. DESCENDANTS, some of them from others. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing".

So Adam was chosen over his people to survive. Noah was chosen over his people to survive. Abraham was chosen over his people for the major prophetic linage. The family of Imran was chosen over their people. Etc.

So combine this verse with the other verses that show Adam having ancestors, who were not human. Since we all know Adam is the FIRST human. By default, his ancestors CANNOT be human. They could be human-like, but not the same thing as Adam.


 

If you note in the previous two noble verses, Allah afirms his ability to make new creation ,but not through evolving from previous humans ,but after eradicating the whole humanity ...so no space here to impose evolution on the noble verses....


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the next noble verses :

from changing the nature of your existence and bringing you into being [anew] in a manner [as yet] unknown to you.



Holy quran 56:61Have you ever considered what you emit? Did you create it, or are We its Creators? We have ordained death for (all of) you; no one will get ahead to prevent Us  from changing your attributes, and transforming you into something you would never recognize.

the words in bold were understood by some tafsir scholars as:

"in replacing you with others the same as you and re-forming you in a way you know nothing about. "

If the verse could be understood as a threaten then the first meaning is more sound........
and the meaning would be a threat to them of transforming their physical appearance to be like Apes or pigs... it could also mean ,Allah is able to change both the appearance and the behaviour of them ,as he wishes..

Whatever meaning you adhere to ,there is nothing in the verse that suggests that Allah did so, neither in past or future....

Allah's ability to do something ,doesn't neccesarily requires ,that he already did it.


our next noble verse

With regards to the first thing you posted, I disagree, the Quran is not talking about eradicating humanity THEN making something succeed. Instead, it used to word for 'and' signifying it is a simultaneous process. So for example: "(Quran 35:16) If He wills, He can do away with you and bring forth a new creation", there is no "then" in that verse. Allah will do away with us and bring a new creation in that process simultaneously. So a group of humans may mutate in a form, and the other humans will be done away with at the same time. So that Humanity as we know it is different from the newly evolved human.

Like the verse on Muscles forming around the bones, Its a simultaneous process.

 I think that Quran 56:59-62 is referring to the resurrection of mankind rather than anything to do with evolution. It may have to do with it, but considering the context of the chapter, I think its most likely referring to resurrection of mankind. We will be resurrected in a form we don't know.

Muhammad 47:38 Behold, [O believers,] it is you who are called upon to spend freely in God’s cause: but [even] among you are such as turn out to be niggardly! And yet, he who acts niggardly [in God’s cause] is but niggardly towards his own self: for God is indeed self-sufficient, whereas you stand in need [of Him]; and if you turn away [from Him], He will cause other people to take your place, and they will not be the likes of you! and Allah has power over all things......


the noble verse is similar to the previous one...  a warning to those who acts niggardly,to be substituted of other folk who will not be likes of them but more generous and zealous for Islam....
It is not a threat of eradication ,neither other creatures substituting them...

it is not reasonable to think that Allah wants to send a message to those turn out to be niggardly, that they are going to be substituted with some other people looks physically diferent !!!

clear??

now with our next noble verse...

This verse is saying that if we are wrong-doers (more specifically being cheap), Allah will substitute others with us that are different from us. How will they be different from us, if they are exactly like us? Obviously, they have to have some kind of change!

This verse is nothing more but an extension of 6:133, where they both show, that if we become wrong-doers, we will be replaced by some other people. Quran 47:38, ends up telling us that those people will be different from us! That should be very compelling evidence, coupled with why verse 6:133 uses 'ma' instead of 'min', that evidence is rather compelling.

Hello brother Egyptian. Thank you so much for spending time to reply to me. I just wanted to let you know that before I start, that I am doing nothing but searching for the truth. I strive for intellectual honesty, and this has brought me in life so far. It has made me ultimately convert to Islam. So I will always (God willing) continue using such intellectual honesty in my line of thinking. If I find that something is an honest belief and not one based on excuses (like my previous faith), I usually end supporting such belief.

I thank you for your time, I will create a response to it and then I will make a conclusion in the end detailing which side is the most honest side to be with according to my understanding.

I will reply to each post individually. Please allow time for this

Lol, you find it hard to believe that Allah created as in that way?

Sorry, i believe that Allah is all powerful and can do everything.

We descend from The Prophet Adam, not monkeys.

Adam did NOT evolve or what ever, Adam was created in Jannah at first. He was created by clay of the earth that the angels when to gather from the earth.
Everything is CREATED by water because in the beginning it was Allah and water.

Don't try to look for loopholes in the Qur'an etc, we are supposed to understand it in the same way the companions understood it. The same with ahadith, we cannot make what is halal, haraam and do the opposite, (i'm not saying you are btw).

Adam did not evolve or any crap related to that, he was an entirely new creation.

When Allah creates something, he simply says Kun Fayakoon.
"Be and it is".

I'm offended by your wizard reference etc.

Hello brother, the point I was trying to make is that Evolution is a more ingenious process than making every creature by hand.

Adam was not created in Jannah first. There is no such thing in the Quran, Adam was reworded to stay in Heaven with his wife AFTER he won the contest against the angels (the naming of creatures) as Quran stated clearly in 2:35 and 7:19 (please read the context of those verses). When Adam disobeyed Allah and ate from the tree him and his wife were sent back to Earth.

Take a look at Quran 2:30 All the way to Quran 2:35. Allah put a successive authority in Earth and then told Adam to recite the names Allah has taught him. Adam was able to, and he was given to dwell in paradise with his wife.

The Quran many times says that we were created FROM the earth (like 11:61).

The problem with the interpretation of the Quran the same way the companions understood it, is that, the Quran is meant for all times and places, not just them. The Quran puts verses that supports their beliefs and our beliefs without contradicting either belief. The companions believed the Earth was flat, shall be believe like them? Of course not. The Quran did not say that, rather it hinted at their belief and it avoided words to contradict our belief that the Earth is round. The Quran does this on purpose.

What's Halal and Haraam will stay though.

When Allah creates something he says "be, and it is". Exactly. ALlah creates the universe and makes evolution happen. All he says is "be" and it is. That by no means contradicts evolution.

Thank you brother Egyptian so far, I will respond when you write the conclusion

it is not reasonable to think that Allah wants to send a message to those turn out to be niggardly, that they are going to be substituted with some other people looks physically diferent !!!

If you look at ibn Kathir's tafsir of Quran 6:133 he mentions the verses I posted in my original post and he connects them together

But if you think about it, how is Allah going to substitute people that will be different in worship? By making them different. If you notice in this verse here:

(Quran 35:16) If He wills, He can do away with you and bring forth a new creation.

^it refers to a new creation. If you look at the verse before that it is speaking to all of mankind!

Also notice this one:

(Quran 2:30) And when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority."

The arabic word used mean successor. Allah will put on the earth a successor! An authority to rule over earth. It could very well be through a process of evolution. So here we see Allah's method is to make a creature succeed over another.

If you combine Quran 6:133 and the fact it uses the word "ma" instead of "min", with Quran 35:16 which tells you it is a new creation, with Quran 47:38 which tells you that the people Allah will make succeed will be different in us. Remember that Allah wants people to worship him and he wants it to be their choice, if we don't make the choice, he will eradicate us and create a new creation to succeed us! I think that you would have to accept that those verses hint at the fact that we were descendants of another people. I think this is too overwhelming in my opinion.

Quran 3:33-34 refers to Adam as a descendant of someone else and he was chosen over them. "Indeed, Allah chose Adam and Noah and the family of Abraham and the family of 'Imran over the worlds, Descendants, some of them from others. "

^this should be sufficient by itself.

(Quran 6.133)  If He wills, he can do away with you and give succession after you to WHATEVER He wills, just as He produced you from the descendants of another people.

Allah can get rid of Us and make another creature succeed just as he produced US from another people!

Note: The Quran specifically uses the word "Whatever" or "What" ("ma" in Arabic ما). This Arabic word "ma" cannot refer to humans; this word is strictly reserved for non-humans (the Arabic word that does refer to humans is "men من", meaning "who" or "whoever" but it was not used here). This verse says that if God wishes He can make our descendants nonhuman just like our ancestors. Further this verse is referring to ALL of mankind (as Quran 6:130 shows in context). So all of mankind was produced from descendants of another people (hominids).

(Quran 4:133) If it were His will, He could destroy you, o mankind, and create another race; for He hath power this to do.
(Quran 35:16) If He wills, He can do away with you and bring forth a new creation.
(Quran 47:38) And if you turn away, He will replace you with another people; then they will not be the likes of you.

^Again, we see a reference to Allah destroying Mankind and creating another people. If you notice from the context the verse before 35:16 shows that its talking about mankind. Now with verse 6:133 in mind and the other verses, what do you propose is the mechanism Allah would use? Further Quran 47:38 explicitly says that the other people the Quran is talking about in 6:133 will not be like us and that we descended from another people NOT like us! 
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Let me get an opinion please.

May Allah bless you and your families. And may Syria be at peace!