Show Posts
16
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Noah
« on: June 17, 2021, 10:02:17 PM »
Assalamu Alaykum,
The Quran says Noah lived for 950 years in Verse 29:14,
[29:014]"Indeed, We sent Noah to his people, and he remained among them for a thousand years, less fifty. Then the Flood overtook them, while they persisted in wrongdoing."
Some Muslims argue that living for 950 years makes no sense and that is not what Allah meant. They say that Allah is not concerned with ages of people so Allah did not mention the age of Noah and instead Allah said "1000 less fifty" (not 950 directly). They argue that the word used for "years" in "1000 years" is سَنَةٍ, which is associated with bad years and for "minus 50 years" the word used was عَامًا, which is associated with good years. They prove this claim by saying that the use of the word عام is found in Quran 12:49, which reads: "'Then a year (عَامٌ) will come after that when people will receive showers, and in which they will press [grapes].'"
As you can see, the use of عام here denotes a good year where people will receive rains and make wine. And for the word سَنَة, they say that it is found in Quran 5:26: "He said: 'It will proscribed on them for forty years (سَنَةً). They will wander around the earth, so do not worry about such perverse people.'"
Here, the Holy Land is forbidden upon the Jews for 40 years and the word used was سَنَةً. So, those Muslims say that سنة refers to bad years and عام refers to good years. So, Muslims argue that for Noah's case, 1000 سنة is metaphorical and means that it means Noah experienced a lot of bad, oppressed years except only 50 عام, or only a few years of spiritual progress. They say that 1000 years minus 50 years does not mean Muslims just do easy math (1000-50=950) since Allah could have said 950 years directly.
So basically their argument is that 1000 and 50 are metaphorical numbers and not literal, saying that 1000 merely means a lot (of bad years) and 50 means a little (good years). Then they use Verse 29:43 to justify that the Quran was being metaphorical, "These are parables We make up for mankind, though only the learned will use their [powers of] reason."
"These are parables", they say means that Noah's age and many other stories in the Quran are metaphorical and this Verse is especially referring to Noah's age because both verses (the one about Noah's age and the other that says "these are parables") are in the same Surah (Surah Ankabut). Then, they also use Verse 48:23 to prove that lifespans are always the same and they are not getting shorter or longer. The Verse reads: "[This is] the established way of Allah which has occurred before. And never will you find in the way of Allah any change."
So they say Allah's way can not change, as a result lifespans cannot change either because they are part of Allah's way.
Finally, they go back to Verse 29:14 itself, "Indeed, We sent Noah to his people, and he remained among them for a thousand years, less fifty. Then the Flood overtook them, while they persisted in wrongdoing."
They say that it says he "remained" among his people and that it never says "he lived for". So they say that the Quran isn't talking about how long he lived at all.
Ok so here are the summaries of the points they made to prove that Noah did not live 950 years but a normal lifespan:
So these are their points, and is it possible for you to refute all the points they made? Please refute their claim point by point.
Thank you,
Qualities of Allah
The Quran says Noah lived for 950 years in Verse 29:14,
[29:014]"Indeed, We sent Noah to his people, and he remained among them for a thousand years, less fifty. Then the Flood overtook them, while they persisted in wrongdoing."
Some Muslims argue that living for 950 years makes no sense and that is not what Allah meant. They say that Allah is not concerned with ages of people so Allah did not mention the age of Noah and instead Allah said "1000 less fifty" (not 950 directly). They argue that the word used for "years" in "1000 years" is سَنَةٍ, which is associated with bad years and for "minus 50 years" the word used was عَامًا, which is associated with good years. They prove this claim by saying that the use of the word عام is found in Quran 12:49, which reads: "'Then a year (عَامٌ) will come after that when people will receive showers, and in which they will press [grapes].'"
As you can see, the use of عام here denotes a good year where people will receive rains and make wine. And for the word سَنَة, they say that it is found in Quran 5:26: "He said: 'It will proscribed on them for forty years (سَنَةً). They will wander around the earth, so do not worry about such perverse people.'"
Here, the Holy Land is forbidden upon the Jews for 40 years and the word used was سَنَةً. So, those Muslims say that سنة refers to bad years and عام refers to good years. So, Muslims argue that for Noah's case, 1000 سنة is metaphorical and means that it means Noah experienced a lot of bad, oppressed years except only 50 عام, or only a few years of spiritual progress. They say that 1000 years minus 50 years does not mean Muslims just do easy math (1000-50=950) since Allah could have said 950 years directly.
So basically their argument is that 1000 and 50 are metaphorical numbers and not literal, saying that 1000 merely means a lot (of bad years) and 50 means a little (good years). Then they use Verse 29:43 to justify that the Quran was being metaphorical, "These are parables We make up for mankind, though only the learned will use their [powers of] reason."
"These are parables", they say means that Noah's age and many other stories in the Quran are metaphorical and this Verse is especially referring to Noah's age because both verses (the one about Noah's age and the other that says "these are parables") are in the same Surah (Surah Ankabut). Then, they also use Verse 48:23 to prove that lifespans are always the same and they are not getting shorter or longer. The Verse reads: "[This is] the established way of Allah which has occurred before. And never will you find in the way of Allah any change."
So they say Allah's way can not change, as a result lifespans cannot change either because they are part of Allah's way.
Finally, they go back to Verse 29:14 itself, "Indeed, We sent Noah to his people, and he remained among them for a thousand years, less fifty. Then the Flood overtook them, while they persisted in wrongdoing."
They say that it says he "remained" among his people and that it never says "he lived for". So they say that the Quran isn't talking about how long he lived at all.
Ok so here are the summaries of the points they made to prove that Noah did not live 950 years but a normal lifespan:
- First, living 950 years makes no sense scientifically as scientists say that the lifespan is increasing, not decreasing.
- Second, Allah is not concerned with the ages of people since it has nothing to do with guiding people.
- Third, Allah never directly said 950 years but instead said 1000 سنة minus 50 عام. And they "proved" that عام means good years and سنة means bad years using Quran 12:49 and 5:26. They say that 1000 and 50 are metaphorical numbers and just mean that Noah achieved many years of oppression and only a few years of spiritual progress.
- Fourth, the same chapter where Noah is said to live 950 years says in Verse 43 that God gives parables to mankind, concluding that God "confirms" Noah's age was a parable and not literal.
- Fifth, Verse 48:23 is used to say that God does not change his way. Thus, "proving" that lifespans were never different and longer before and were always the same as they are part of God's way.
- Sixth, Verse 29:14 itself says that Noah REMAINED WITH HIS PEOPLE, and not lived, for 1000 minus 50 years, thus "proving" that the Quran never said Noah lived for 950 years.
- Finally, they say that after doing the math, 1000 سنة minus 50 عام, which unit should the answer be in, سنة or عام? Thus, they say that just doing simple math here doesn't make sense, "falsyfing" the claim that Noah lived for 950 years. (I find this reasoning to be poor because سنة and عام mean the same thing and are synonyms, so the answer would be in سنة or عام.
So these are their points, and is it possible for you to refute all the points they made? Please refute their claim point by point.
Thank you,
Qualities of Allah