Arabia or Babylon in Jeremiah 51:33 ?

[Idris]

Salam aleikum,

I have found in answering-christianity.com the following Old Testament quotation: "Arabia has not yet met its threshold, and "and the time of her harvest shall come." (Jeremiah 51:33)

Where did the word Arabia appear in this verse ? It is about Babylon here not Arabia. I think this is an error to mention Arabia in Jeremiah 51:33, but maybe I'am wrong.

[QuranSearchCom]

Wa Alaikum As'salam dear brother Idris,

All other English translations, and also the Arabic one, say "THE DAUGHTER OF BABYLON".  We know that Arabia is called the Daughter of Babylon.  In fact, the Bible speaks about the fall of three Babylons:

1-  Babylon (the Assyrian one).  It fell to Islam.

2-  The VIRGIN DAUGHTER of Babylon (pagan Arabia).  It was a virgin because it had no official Divine Religion like Islam yet.  It fell to Islam.  This is the time when it began to meet its threshold.

3-  Future Babylon, THE GREAT harlot (prostitute).  It will fall to Islam after the return of Prophet Isa (Jesus), peace be upon him.


I have thoroughly demonstrated them from the Bible with ample passages with my debate with Anthony Rogers.  You can visit the MS-DOC file at:

www.answering-christianity.com/debate_templates.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/Debates%20Database%20Doc%20File.doc

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

[Idris]

As-Salam aleikum wa rahmatullahi wa baraketuh dear brother Osama,

thank you for the explanation. Interesting, I didn't know about this, since I thought that Babylon is referring maybe to the territories of modern Iraq. The camel driver from Isaiah 21:7 is almost certainly Prophet Mohammed (pbuh), but which Babylon Isaiah has in mind two verses later (i.e. Isaiah 21:9)? Is he talking about Iraq or pagan Arabia ?

As to the Future Babylon, which is called "THE GREAT harlot", some Christians says that it refers to the Roman Catholic Church, precisely the Vatican, and it seems they have a pretty good argument.

[QuranSearchCom]

Wa Alaikum As'salam Wa Rahmatu Allah Wa Barakatuh dear brother Idris,

You are most welcome, akhi.  Jazaka Allah Khayr.

As to Isaiah 21:7, we read:

From
www.answering-christianity.com/debate_templates.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/Debates%20Database%20Doc%20File.doc

Isaiah 21:7
Knox Bible (KNOX)
7 A chariot he saw, with two out-riders (chariots), one that rode on an ass (singular), and one that rode on a camel (singular); looked long at them, watching them eagerly.
   
NOTE:  A Chariot master is a Servant of GOD who is SENT BY GOD ALMIGHTY in the Bible: 1 Chronicles 28:18.
   
Also, Christ fulfilled the riding of the ass or donkey vision, when he entered Jerusalem on an ass, in John 12:14.
   
Also, “looked long at them, watching them eagerly.”  clearly means that these are two very important Servants.
   
   
8 And he cried, A lion: My lord, I stand continually upon the watchtower in the daytime, and I am set in my ward whole nights:

9 And, behold, here cometh a chariot of men, with a couple of horsemen. And he answered and said, Babylon is fallen, is fallen; and all the graven images of her gods he (Muhammad, Islam) hath broken unto the ground.
…….
13 The burden upon Arabia….
   
   
Babylon did indeed fall before Islam and the Islamic nation under the guidance of Muhammad (peace be upon him) did indeed succeed in eradicating the worship of idols from Babylon replacing it with the worship of God alone.  In fact, the Muslims were the only believers in the God of Isaiah to ever succeed in fulfilling this prophesy.
   
   
 As to "The burden upon Arabia ..." (Isaiah 21:13), what does it mean?
   
"…which also means an oracle is a word sometimes used in the prophetical writings to indicate a divine message of judgment" (Scofield Study Bible New King James Version, note 1, p. 792)


   
The pagan religions of Arabia had all originated from Babel.  Pagan Arabia is called the Daughter of Babylon: Isaiah 47:1.
   
So “Babylon is fallen, is fallen” clearly refers to the fall of ALL OF THE IDOLS AND PAGAN RELIGIONS in all of the Arabic and Arabian lands.
   
In fact, Isaiah 47:1 and Jeremiah 51:33, give a mighty prophecy against the pagan religions of Arabia, and prophesied about its end, and replacement with a NEW DIVINE RELIGION.

Let’s read the two verses:
   
Isaiah 47:1
Come down, and sit in the dust, O virgin daughter of Babylon, sit on the ground: there is no throne, O daughter of the Chaldeans: for thou shalt no more be called tender and delicate.
     
Now why was Arabia called VIRGIN DAUGHTER OF BABYLON?  Because the Arabs as I mentioned were fresh, and had no previous scriptures, nor religions.  Arabia was a virgin in that.  It had no previous religion, and it was ready for a Divine Religion to be sent to it, which is Islam!  Allah Almighty Said in the Holy Quran:
   
[034:043]  When Our Clear Signs are rehearsed to them, they say, "This is only a man who wishes to hinder you from the (worship) which your fathers practised." And they say, "This is only a falsehood invented!" and the Unbelievers say of the Truth when it comes to them, "This is nothing but evident magic!"
   
[034:044]  But We had not given them Books which they could study, nor sent apostles to them before thee as Warners.

   
     
Furthermore, we read in Jeremiah 51:33:
   
Jeremiah 51:33
For thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; The daughter of Babylon is like a threshingfloor, it is time to thresh her: yet a little while, and the time of her harvest shall come.
   
Arabia’s harvest is indeed the Divine Religion, Islam.  GOD Almighty’s Original Faith on Earth, and the RELIGION OF THE PEOPLE OF KEDAR is Islam.  Muhammad was the Servant of GOD Almighty to come, that was mentioned in Isaiah 41 & 42.




The Great harlot:

It is definitely quite possible that it includes the Catholic Church, since it is this church that cemented the false lie of trinity.  But most definitely, it does include all of the world's corruption, and also the people of Israel's part of it, since Allah Almighty in the Glorious Quran did Promise that the Jews will RISE IN EARTH MIGHTY HIGHTS in corruption and wickedness.  They will reach "Mighty Heights" علوا كبيرا  of evil power and might on earth.  See Noble Verses 17:4-8.  Please visit:

www.answering-christianity.com/nuclear_doom_prophecy.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/dajjal.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/666.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/ac3.htm#links
www.answering-christianity.com/predict.htm

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

[Mohamed Saif]

Assalamun alaikum dear brothers

Also according to the preterist version harlot Babylon refers to the city of Rome. Since the Roman Empire conquered almost the entire world the city of Rome was actually a world power.  That is why harlot Babylon sits on the beast (Roman Empire) in the book of revelations. And also brother Idris said that the book of Isaiah and the book of revelation contained a lot of similarities. Even in revelation it says that "Babylon has Fallen". Since both books contain many similarities I think they refer to the same Babylon.

Thank you

[Idris]

As-Salam aleikum wa rahmatullahi wa baraketuh,

great pieces of info brother Osama! Jazaka Allah khayran akhi. So, we can conclude that Mecca and the desert of Arabia are hidden under many names: Paran, Zion, Baka, ...Babylon ?? Again, just for clarifying: the "Daughter of Babylon" is Mecca or Arabia ?

[QuranSearchCom]

As'salamu Alaikum Wa Rahmatu Allah Wa Barakatuh dear brother Idris,

I believe that a city or region like Mecca or Paran or Baka is mentioned, it does include all of Arabia, and vise versa.  When "Daughter of Babylon" is mentioned, it includes all of Arabia.  The people, whether pagan Ishmaelites or future Muslim ones, are the real target.  Not the lands necessarily.  Again, the Bible spoke about they have not yet met their threshold, and the time of their harvest shall come.


As to Daughter of Babylon, I believe it means Arabia, and not just Mecca.  And of course, Arabia does include Mecca.  Just like Babylon means ancient Assyria, and the future Babylon means the entire anti-Christ dajjal system.  So Babylon had always referred to vast lands, and not just cities.

Mecca was also precisely referenced in the old Scriptures.  The House of GOD Almighty will be established in the desert.  And people will come to it from all over the world.  That is a clear reference to Mecca.  For more details, please visit:

www.answering-christianity.com/walid_shoebat_islam_satan_rebuttal.htm#isaiah_34_35
www.answering-christianity.com/predict.htm


I hope this helps, insha'Allah.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

[Idris]

As-Salam aleikum wa rahmatullahi wa baraketuh dear brother Osama,

Thank you for such a kind of info akhi. It will help me now to get a much clearer view of some Old Testament passages. Excellent!
Thank you once again, and jazaka Allahu khayran, and also for brother Mohamed Saif for some additional hints on this topic.

Take care, and salam
Ahmed (Poland, Warsaw)

[Mohamed Saif]

Assalamun Alaikum dear brother Idris

Same to you.  May Allah bless you and your family. If you find anything new make sure you post it brother. I really love your work.

Thank you

[Idris]

Wa aleikum as-salam wa rahmatullahi wa baraketuh,

thank you dear brother Mohamed Saif. No problem, I will post insha'Allah some new findings, perhaps together we would solve some difficult passages.

Take care, and salam
Ahmed

[QuranSearchCom]

As'salamu Alaikum dear brothers Idris and Mohamed,

Jazakum Allah Khayr, dear brothers.  Ameen.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah