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Rebuttal to Sam Shamoun's Article "Islamic Scholarship on the Issue of Incest and Sodomy"

By
Bassam Zawadi

His article can be located here http://www../Shamoun/incest.htm

Sam Shamoun in his article quotes Qurtubi's commentary on Surah 4:23, which was translated for him by his friend Dimitrius (A.K.A Christian Prince on Paltalk) and tries to show that Islam permits men to marry their daughters whom they conceived outside of marriage. Sam also tries to show that sodomy is somehow allowed in Islam because the scholar did not condemn it.  

Sam Shamoun said:

The quotes provided by al-Qurtubi raises some very disturbing questions. In the first place, al-Qurtubi mentions the opinions of scholars who say that sodomizers cannot marry the mother of the child, or the daughter or sister of the person whom they molested. The substantial number of early Islamic scholars who discussed this issue suggests that sodomy was a problem in the Muslim community and its various aspects had to be legislated; otherwise, why would they even bring up the prohibitions produced by sodomy if such a practice wasn't being observed by at least some Muslims? Even more disturbing is that these scholars say nothing about punishing the sodomizer for committing such a heinous and abominable sexual act! This lends credence to what we wrote about the Quran failing to explicitly prohibit homosexuality, specifically sodomy with young boys (www../Responses/Menj/homosexual.htm).

My Response:

So what if there were sodomizers amongst the Muslim community? What are you trying to prove. Who said that all Muslims are saints? There are millions of sodomizers in America, does that mean anything? So what if the scholars did not condemn sodomy here? Their main focus was not on sodomy and the laws regarding it. Just because scholars were talking about the rulings of what people should do just in case sodomy occurred does not mean that they allowed it or did not condemn it. They happened to mention sodomy when it comes to marriage laws. 

Sodomy is prohibited in Islam.

Surah 26:168

He said: "I do detest your doings."

Lot said to his people that he detests their doings. Their doings being referred to is sodomy. (Tafsir Jalalayn, Source: Online)

Why would Lot detest something sodomy if it was permissible in Islam?

Also from the Hadith...

Abu Dawud

Book 033, Hadith Number 4447.
------------------------------
Chapter : Not known.

Narated By Abdullah ibn Abbas : The Prophet (pbuh) said: If you find anyone doing as Lot's people did, kill the one who does it, and the one to whom it is done.


Book 033, Hadith Number 4448.
------------------------------
Chapter : Not known.

Narated By Abdullah ibn Abbas : If a man who is not married is seized committing sodomy, he will be stoned to death.

Malik Muwaatta

Book 041, Hadith Number 011.
-----------------------------
Section : Stoning.

Malik related to me that he had heard that Uthman ibn Affan was brought a woman who had given birth after six months and he ordered her to be stoned. Ali ibn Abi Talib said to him, "She does not deserve that. Allah, the Blessed, the Exalted, says in His Book, 'Their carrying and weaning is thirty months,' (Sura 46 ayat 15) and he said, 'Mothers suckle their children for two full years for whoever wishes to complete the suckling.' (Sura 2 ayat 233) Pregnancy can then be six months, so she does not deserve to be stoned." Uthman ibn Affan sent for her and found that she had already been stoned.

Malik related to me that he asked Ibn Shihab about someone who committed sodomy. Ibn Shihab said, "He is to be stoned, whether or not he is muhsan."

Scholars have differed regarding the punishment for homosexuality. Some say that homosexuality should be treated like any other sex case. Meaning, he should get flogged if he was a fornicator and stoned if was an adulterer. (Source) Others say that they should be executed and other say that they should not be executed but Allah's curse be upon them. (Source) 

Whether there is a punishment for sodomy or not is irrelevant. It is a consensus that it is prohibited though.

Sam Shamoun said:

Secondly, how does having a daughter from an adulterous relationship make her sexually permissible for the father when she is his very own flesh and blood? Regardless of how she was conceived, she still remains the man's biological offspring and is therefore sexually off limits to the father. It is obvious that these Muslim scholars are permitting incest, a gross perversion of sexual mores.

My Response:

I want to thank Sam Shamoun for refuting Qurtubi and showing his faulty logic when it came to him explaining this verse. Indeed, even if the daughter was conceived outside of marriage, she is still your daughter. 

At-Tabari recorded that Ibn `Abbas said, "Seven degrees of blood relation and seven degrees of marriage relation are prohibited (for marriage).'' He then recited the Ayah... (Source) 

Ibn Kathir also states...

Source: http://quran.al-islam.com/Tafseer/DispTafsser.asp?l=arb&taf=KATHEER&nType=1&nSora=4&nAya=23

And the majority of the scholars have agreed on the prohibition of marrying the person (daughter outside of marriage) from the water of the adulterer (his semen) because of Allah’s statement “and your daughters” because she is a daughter so she enters this category and this is the way of Abu Hanifa, Malik, Ahmad bin Hanbal and it is said that Shaafi’e allowed it because she is not a daughter according to Shariah.

Shaafi's argument is very weak and holds no water. The majority have clearly prohibited it. Sam is just committing the fallacy of appealing to authority and nothing else. Even Sam refuted the scholar himself. 

Sam Shamoun said:

{Sidenote: The prohibitions (or the lack thereof) resulting from adulterous affairs presupposes that persons committing adultery would not be put to death. Otherwise, there would have been no need to enumerate forbidden sexual relations which resulted from committing adultery since those committing this sin would have been put to death. This supports the position that adulterers are not to be stoned, contrary to Islamic Law (Sharia) which, on the basis of hadiths, prescribes stoning for married people who commit adultery (cf. surah 24:2-3).}

My Response:

Sam fails to understand that you need four witnesses in order to have the individual punished. There are people who commit adultery and don’t get caught. They don’t confess it. So they repent to God instead. Therefore, they would then have to follow these rules. 

Lets see what Sam's Bible says about those who were born outside of marriage...

Deuteronomy 23:2

    ² No one born of a forbidden marriage nor any of his descendants may enter the assembly of the LORD, even down to the tenth generation.

Just because someone is born outside of marriage (not even his fault) he can’t enter the assembly of God. Compare this with the Quran that says…

 Surah 4:124

If any do deeds of righteousness, be they male or female, and have faith they will enter heaven and not the least injustice will be done to them.

Sam Shamoun said:

The foregoing not only exemplifies the perverted nature of Islam, but also shows how vastly superior the Holy Bible is in comparison to the Quran in terms of morality and ethics.

My Response:

The foregoing not only exemplifies the unjust nature of Christianity, but also shows how vastly superior the Holy Quran is in comparison to the Bible in terms of morality and ethics.

Islam and the Noble Quran - Questions and Answers.

Rebuttals to Sam Shamoun section.

Prophet Muhammad's, peace be upon him, section.

Brother Bassam Zawadi's section.

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